If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Interesting (textbook I guess) effects of a bad O2 sensor
Hi All,
I thought I would post the output of my OTC Monitor 4000E with the Pathfinder 97 cartridge, along with some comments, since it's such a textbook case of a bad O2 sensor. This is from my 1995 Chrysler Town & Country minivan with 3.8L engine. The '95 T&C is a pre-OBD-II vehicle, so I have to use a scantool that is designed for it. The scantool cartridge I have is the last cartridge year that OTC made that will work in the Monitor 4000E The 95 T&C has 2 vehicle diagnostic ports, one in the engine bay and one under the dash, the one in the engine bay talks to the engine computer, the one under the dash talks to the transmission computer. I have the adapters for both ports. As part of the registration renewal here you have to go through emissions inspection. I first ran my van though 12/31/08 and it failed with an idle reading of: HC 519ppm CO 9.2721% CO2 was at 8.5% There was no check engine light visible. I then waited for a weekend that wasn't snowing or raining and replaced the spark plugs and spark plug wires - the old plugs had worn to a gap that was almost double the factory spec and the plug wires were the original wires - and when you take the time to do plugs in that vehicle, (the back ones are not easy to get to, I put the car up on jackstands and used a creeper to get at the plugs from the bottom) you might as well do the wires. I replaced the plugs with Autolite Platinum that I bought from Walmart (yes, believe it or not they carried them) I then took the van back through emissions on 1/24 and it failed with an idle reading of: HC 477ppm CO 10.1685% CO2 7.9% Ok, so now the easy/cheap/quick fixes were done it was time to break out the scantool and do some real diagnostics. I warmed up the van and first pulled for any stored code and came up with code 51 which is a fuel/air mixture out of range problem. I then ran a printout of parameters from the scantool and got this( it looks best in a non-proportional font): CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI ----- REVIEW CODES ----- >> ENGINE CODES << ----- NUMBER OF CODES ----- 01 51 O2 F/A SYS LEAN ----- PRINTING COMPLETE ----- CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: 51 -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 199 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.42 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 03.4 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.4 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.18 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.00 V ENGINE RPM 0747 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.64 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.64 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +06 % AIS/IAC STEPS 008 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 066 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.8 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.8 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 008 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 019 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ Well, now this was strange - 0v from the O2 sensor? In case this was a fluke I shut down the engine, then cleared the stored error codes and got this: CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI ---GUIDED PATH STATUS---- Complete Intermittent Code Detected ------FAULT CODES------- ----- REVIEW CODES ----- >> ENGINE CODES << NO CODES --OUT OF RANGE SENSORS-- Number of sensors 0 ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 217 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.06 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 15.6 MS LOOP STATUS OPEN MAP 26.2 IHG MAP VOLTS 4.00 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.22 V ENGINE RPM 0000 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.72 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +24 % AIS/IAC STEPS 036 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 062 F BATTERY VOLTS 11.9 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS NO CRANK POS STATUS NO DESIRED AIS STEPS 036 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 018 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 04 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ Ok, that's a bit more normal - there's the voltage from the O2 sensor. I started up the engine and started running some more printouts: CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 213 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.16 V IDLE RPM X 10 080 INJ PULSE WIDTH 03.5 MS LOOP STATUS OPEN MAP 09.4 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.18 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.22 V ENGINE RPM 0843 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.64 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.66 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +24 % AIS/IAC STEPS 016 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 062 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.8 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 016 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 015 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 206 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.30 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 04.6 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 10.2 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.30 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.04 V ENGINE RPM 0745 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.66 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +24 % AIS/IAC STEPS 016 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 062 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.8 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 016 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 018 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 20 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ Ok, so notice something. The O2 sensor voltage is starting to fall. The Chrysler O2 sensor is a heated sensor - when engine is off, the sensor heater is off - when the engine is started the sensor heater starts warming it up. So as the sensor was getting warmer, it's voltage output was getting lower. I continued running some more printouts, and as you can see from the following 4 printouts, the O2 sensor voltage remained at zero. CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 206 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.22 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 04.4 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.8 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.26 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.00 V ENGINE RPM 0780 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.66 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +24 % AIS/IAC STEPS 014 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 062 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.8 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 014 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 013 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 208 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.18 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 03.5 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.4 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.18 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.00 V ENGINE RPM 0720 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.66 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +06 % AIS/IAC STEPS 008 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 060 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.8 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 008 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 017 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 210 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.16 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 03.8 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.5 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.20 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.00 V ENGINE RPM 0726 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.64 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +13 % AIS/IAC STEPS 010 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 062 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.9 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 010 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 017 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 217 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.00 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 03.5 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.3 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.16 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.00 V ENGINE RPM 0750 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.64 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.64 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +09 % AIS/IAC STEPS 009 BARO PRESSURE 30.6 IHG BATTERY TEMP 062 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.8 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 13.9 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 009 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 021 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ Ok, so the O2 sensor must be faulty. So I bought a new sensor (Denso part 234-4210) and replaced it 2/7/09 and got these readouts on a warm engine: CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 212 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.16 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 02.8 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.4 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.18 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.10 V ENGINE RPM 0737 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.66 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +06 % AIS/IAC STEPS 008 BARO PRESSURE 30.2 IHG BATTERY TEMP 055 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.9 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 14.0 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 008 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 018 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ CHRYSLER 1995 3.3/3.8L SFI FAULT CODES: NO -- BASIC INFORMATION BLOCK -- ENGINE COOLANT TEMP 212 F ENGINE COOLANT SEN V 2.16 V IDLE RPM X 10 075 INJ PULSE WIDTH 02.7 MS LOOP STATUS CLSD MAP 09.3 IHG MAP VOLTS 1.16 V OXYGEN BANK1 SENSOR1 0.80 V ENGINE RPM 0755 THROT POS SENS VOLTS 0.66 V TP SENSOR MINIMUM 0.66 V -- ENGINE INFORMATION BLOCK -- ADAPTIVE FACTOR #1 +06 % AIS/IAC STEPS 008 BARO PRESSURE 30.2 IHG BATTERY TEMP 055 F BATTERY VOLTS 13.9 V CHARG SYS TARG VOLTS 14.0 V CAM POSITION STATUS YES CRANK POS STATUS YES DESIRED AIS STEPS 008 ELECTRONIC ADV/RET 019 DEG KNOCK ACTIVE NO KNOCK SENSOR 1 VOLTS 0.00 V VACUUM 21 IHG VEHICLE SPEED SENS 000 MPH -- MISC. VEHICLE DATA INFO. -- CRUISE CONTROL DIS CRUISE CNTROL CUTOUT CRSW CRUISE SET SPEED 000 MPH CRUISE CONTRL STATUS CRSW CRUISE CNTRL SWITCH 0.00 V VEHICLE THEFT ALARM FUEL ------ PRINTING COMPLETE ------ Now that's more like it - the O2 sensor voltage is swinging between .1 and .8, and it's doing it every 2-3 seconds. I also am now seeing the RICH and LEAN lights on the scantool alternating back and forth. And notice something else - the injector pulse width is about half what it was with the faulty O2 sensor - that is why the engine failed previously, the injectors were just flooding the engine with fuel. I will be taking the van through emissions on Tuesday, and my hope is that the catalytic converter has not gotten plugged up with carbon and is still working. Ted |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Interesting (textbook I guess) effects of a bad O2 sensor
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:58:24 -0800, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote: >Hi All, > >I thought I would post the output of my OTC Monitor 4000E with the >Pathfinder 97 >cartridge, along with some comments, since it's such a textbook case of a >bad O2 >sensor. This is from my 1995 Chrysler Town & Country minivan with 3.8L >engine. >The '95 T&C is a pre-OBD-II vehicle, so I have to use a scantool that is >designed for it. >The scantool cartridge I have is the last cartridge year that OTC made that >will work in the >Monitor 4000E The 95 T&C has 2 vehicle diagnostic ports, one in the engine >bay >and one under the dash, the one in the engine bay talks to the engine >computer, the one >under the dash talks to the transmission computer. I have the adapters for >both ports. > >As part of the registration renewal here you have to go through emissions >inspection. >I first ran my van though 12/31/08 and it failed with an idle reading of: > >HC 519ppm >CO 9.2721% >CO2 was at 8.5% > >There was no check engine light visible. Not that ignition repairs weren't needed, but with CO at 9%, you're looking at a rich condition. As you found out, ignition repairs won't fix that. *Generally*, high CO indicates a mixture problem. High HC would indicate ignition problems. You have both high HC and CO. Here, the excess fuel that's not being burned is causing the high HC. The low CO2 number indicates poor combustion, and the cat not working. The cat not working would be expected with a mixture that rich. To be efficient at oxidation process, a cat needs a near stoichiometric mixture (14.7:1). Your numbers are nowhere near that. My experience has been that a cat converter is more likely to survive a rich condition than a lean or misfire condition. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Gustav - Hey, Rick, you have any effects? | Tom in Missouri | Corvette | 3 | September 15th 08 06:01 PM |
AWA [OFFER] Wheel sensor;Crankshaf position sensor;camshaft sensor;knock sensor;phase s | [email protected] | General | 0 | January 10th 06 12:51 PM |
effects of late timing ? | carl | Technology | 9 | August 11th 05 08:37 AM |
No Force Feedback effects with NSR | pw | Simulators | 11 | March 9th 05 04:16 AM |
C-4 Ground Effects | Art | Corvette | 2 | October 17th 04 01:27 PM |