Need a Sim-Racing Favor...

The show went really well. The audio and video is archived at:

http://www.autosportradio.com/show_archives.html

On Feb 22, 4:58 pm, "Dave F" > wrote:
> I actually think it's kind of silly when there are claims that real life
> drivers train and learn tracks with simulators.

Even when the drivers themselves make the claims? Check out the ESPN
story on youtube. The link is in an earlier post in this thread.

> I've read quotes from F1 drivers who said they can learn a track in a dozen
> laps. I've never raced at Silverstone, but I have learned a kart layout in
> about the same amount of time. What good would a simulator do me if that's
> all it takes?

Depends on what you mean by "learn". I don't believe that any human
being is capable of turning a competitive lap time on an unknown track
in ten laps. Can you get to the point where you know which way the
next turn goes? Probably. Can you go through every turn at
10/10ths? No way.

I don't think hundreds of laps in a sim will get you to 10/10ths in 10
laps either, but I absolutely believe it will get you there faster.

> This combined with the absence of g-forces/fear of injury/death/destruction
> of the car makes auto simulators pretty useless as a training tool (iRacing
> is blowing smoke).

I disagree. Apparently so do a lot of other people including some
professional race drivers.

This is a silly debate topic. Militaries and commercial airlines
spend billions on flight simulation training for their pilots - the
FAA requires it. Are they blowing smoke? If simulation is good
enough to help train a pilot in control of a billion dollar aircraft,
or in control of hundreds of lives, it's good enough to help teach a
guy drive a car.

Pat Dotson

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> The show went really well. The audio and video is archived at:
>
> http://www.autosportradio.com/show_archives.html
>
> On Feb 22, 4:58 pm, "Dave F" > wrote:
>> I actually think it's kind of silly when there are claims that real life
>> drivers train and learn tracks with simulators.
>
> Even when the drivers themselves make the claims? Check out the ESPN
> story on youtube. The link is in an earlier post in this thread.

A relative hadful out of how many?

>> I've read quotes from F1 drivers who said they can learn a track in a
>> dozen
>> laps. I've never raced at Silverstone, but I have learned a kart layout
>> in
>> about the same amount of time. What good would a simulator do me if
>> that's
>> all it takes?
>
> Depends on what you mean by "learn". I don't believe that any human
> being is capable of turning a competitive lap time on an unknown track
> in ten laps. Can you get to the point where you know which way the
> next turn goes? Probably. Can you go through every turn at
> 10/10ths? No way.

Amazing then how these F1 drivers can go out for the first time on a brand
new track on a Thursday, and by Sunday (less than 100 laps later) are
running at 10/10ths.

> I don't think hundreds of laps in a sim will get you to 10/10ths in 10
> laps either, but I absolutely believe it will get you there faster.
>
>> This combined with the absence of g-forces/fear of
>> injury/death/destruction
>> of the car makes auto simulators pretty useless as a training tool
>> (iRacing
>> is blowing smoke).
>
> I disagree. Apparently so do a lot of other people including some
> professional race drivers.
>
> This is a silly debate topic. Militaries and commercial airlines
> spend billions on flight simulation training for their pilots - the
> FAA requires it. Are they blowing smoke? If simulation is good
> enough to help train a pilot in control of a billion dollar aircraft,
> or in control of hundreds of lives, it's good enough to help teach a
> guy drive a car.
>
> Pat Dotson

Different things are being simulated by much different simulators. Can sex
with an incredibly beautiful woman be simulated anywhere close to the real
thing? No, and car simulators are still far from giving us the feel of the
real thing as well. I love auto sim racing as much as anyone, but i'm not
fooling myself. In 50 years I think we'll be there.


--
David G Fisher

"Dave F" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I've read quotes from F1 drivers who said they can learn a track in a
> dozen laps. I've never raced at Silverstone, but I have learned a kart
> layout in about the same amount of time. What good would a simulator do me
> if that's all it takes?
>

Obvious bull**** claim to some sort of alien superiority over everyone
else - and an attempt to psych out other drivers. And maybe impress their
employers/sponsors! Not to mention that most, if not all, F1 teams have had
their own sims for years now anyway, so maybe 10 laps to recognise the
differences from the sim.

In this respect simming is exactly the same as the real deal - do you
know any simmers who have done 500 laps at a given track yet did their
fastest lap on lap 10? Total bull****.

"Byron Forbes" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave F" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> I've read quotes from F1 drivers who said they can learn a track in a
>> dozen laps. I've never raced at Silverstone, but I have learned a kart
>> layout in about the same amount of time. What good would a simulator do
>> me if that's all it takes?
>>
>
> Obvious bull**** claim to some sort of alien superiority over everyone
> else - and an attempt to psych out other drivers. And maybe impress their
> employers/sponsors! Not to mention that most, if not all, F1 teams have
> had their own sims for years now anyway, so maybe 10 laps to recognise the
> differences from the sim.
>
> In this respect simming is exactly the same as the real deal - do you
> know any simmers who have done 500 laps at a given track yet did their
> fastest lap on lap 10? Total bull****.

"Learn" the track in a dozen laps, not master.

As I said in another post, F1 drivers can run their first laps on a new new
track on Thursday, and be running at 100% by Sunday's race start. Less than
100 laps of practice.

What good is one of our simulators going to do them?


--
David G Fisher

"Dave F" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Byron Forbes" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Dave F" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> I've read quotes from F1 drivers who said they can learn a track in a
>>> dozen laps. I've never raced at Silverstone, but I have learned a kart
>>> layout in about the same amount of time. What good would a simulator do
>>> me if that's all it takes?
>>>
>>
>> Obvious bull**** claim to some sort of alien superiority over everyone
>> else - and an attempt to psych out other drivers. And maybe impress their
>> employers/sponsors! Not to mention that most, if not all, F1 teams have
>> had their own sims for years now anyway, so maybe 10 laps to recognise
>> the differences from the sim.
>>
>> In this respect simming is exactly the same as the real deal - do you
>> know any simmers who have done 500 laps at a given track yet did their
>> fastest lap on lap 10? Total bull****.
>
> "Learn" the track in a dozen laps, not master.
>
> As I said in another post, F1 drivers can run their first laps on a new
> new track on Thursday, and be running at 100% by Sunday's race start. Less
> than 100 laps of practice.
>
> What good is one of our simulators going to do them?
>

Well if it's a Tilke track, no wonder. They're all the same anyway! ;-)

Never drove F1 of course, but I used to do quite a bit of two-wheeled racing
back in my enjoyably misspent youth, and some karting as well. I had never
been into computer gaming, but the first time I tried a PC sim I was really
surprised at how much of the thought processes were the same as the real
thing. And I think that's the value really; the same way golfers and tennis
players practice endlessly to make their actions second nature, other
activities use simulations when practice is limited for whatever reason.
Best example might be astronauts; don't get to do a lot of that for real, so
you simulate the hell out of it. Dogfighting also comes to mind. As does
the recent collaboration between Marangoni and the nKPro folks for the
Trento Bondone hillclimb; you can drive those open roads all you want, but
you're severely limited in how many times you get to wail up them at full
chat in an Osella PA-21. Do it a zillion times in a sim to get the rhythm
down and you pretty much WILL go quicker.

Pretty cool 3D model of the climb, btw, at:
http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=WpgUz-OHr_A. Only time I'd seen that one
before was during the Giro d'Italia!

I don't race for real anymore, but sims have taught me a lot that I wish I'd
known back in the day; it's a question of studying the science of racing and
approaching it from a technical perspective, plus getting a lot of seat time
trying various things. And the practice of running in traffic is great for
helping you maintain focus and positional awareness through an event. Is it
as good as the real thing? Nope, but it's way more accessible and enables
even well-funded pros to do it more than they would otherwise. I recall
seeing video recenty of Alonso in McLaren's proprietary sim, and if Sir Ron
thinks it's valuable enough to spend God knows how much they dropped on that
setup, I'm not arguing.

SB

wrote:
> The show went really well. The audio and video is archived at:
>
> http://www.autosportradio.com/show_archives.html

Nice one Pat. Shame they didn't show any footage of the seat. (i.e. pan
the camera to where the interviewer was pointing!)

I thought it went well, I wasn't sure how sim racing was going to be
perceived at the start of the interview but you handled it very well and
it seemed a very fair interview to me.

Cheers
Tony

"Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> The show went really well. The audio and video is archived at:
>>
>> http://www.autosportradio.com/show_archives.html
>
> Nice one Pat. Shame they didn't show any footage of the seat. (i.e. pan
> the camera to where the interviewer was pointing!)
>
> I thought it went well, I wasn't sure how sim racing was going to be
> perceived at the start of the interview but you handled it very well and
> it seemed a very fair interview to me.
>
> Cheers
> Tony

Yeah, well done Pat. Good to see sim racing growing a bit of a face!

PS - did you help that old fella with his email? LOL.

On Feb 25, 1:09 am, "Byron Forbes" > wrote:
> "Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
> > wrote:
> >> The show went really well. The audio and video is archived at:
>
> >>http://www.autosportradio.com/show_archives.html
>
> > Nice one Pat. Shame they didn't show any footage of the seat. (i.e. pan
> > the camera to where the interviewer was pointing!)
>
> Yeah, well done Pat. Good to see sim racing growing a bit of a face!

Thanks guys! I've gotten several nice emails about the interview. My
wife listened to the show from home and was also complimentary

Don Kay has been around Indy forever I guess. I'm sure he didn't know
quite what to think of me or sim-racing (though as he described he had
seen it before). The way this show came about is through a fellow sim-
racer named Chad Pierce who is a regular at Don's show. When Chad
first saw the information about my G-seat, he contacted me and
suggested I go on the show. He is the one who helped set up my
appearance.

I think Don also didn't know how his audience would react. I think he
wasn't expecting it to amount to much. He seemed surprised when
everyone in the place was very attentive. He even commented on that
during the first break - that people were interested and paying
attention. They are used to seeing some big names on the show. Last
week's guests were scheduled to be Sarah Fisher and Tomas Scheckter
(that show was cancelled due to blizzard conditions). Anyway, Don was
a lot more friendly after the show than before

The most interesting person to try the simulator that night was a
former Indycar driver. While other people were trying the simulator,
I kept hearing people in the crowd saying "put Eldon in there!". I
didn't know who Eldon was. Turns out, his name is Eldon Rasmussen,
and he qualified for and raced in three Indy 500's in the '70's. It
was cool seeing him drive the simulator. When other people got into
the simulator they would just floor the gas and usually spin. Eldon
did his first lap around IMS in 1st gear! He took about 10 laps
getting up to speed. He probably drove about 40 laps, and was very
smooth. I didn't think to check his lap times - wish I would have.

The other people were really into it too. There was a crowd watching
all evening while people took turns. Everyone was cheering and really
enjoying it.

It was a pretty cool evening. Several Sim-racers were there. I wish
more could have come!

Pat Dotson