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What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 27th 18, 10:20 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Oren[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 63
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 02:47:50 -0000 (UTC), Mad Roger
> wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:13:56 -0800,
> Oren wrote:
>
>> Why is it you think the clutch pedal "feel" is not an aspect of the
>> adjustment? The throw out bearing needs to release from the clutch
>> plate in the bell housing. You can't adjust it by a ruler. You need
>> a little slop in the pedal so the plate is not always engaged at the
>> risk of burning the plate.
>>
>> ...at least back in the day. Two cents.

>
>It's not my vehicle, and the "feel" stinks no matter what position it's in.
>
>What changes is that it engages early, or late, but not in a way that I
>like either way.
>
>So I can't adjust it by feel because there is no position that feels right
>to me.
>
>Therefore, I just want to adjust it by the book.
>
>If only I knew what to measure as I think it's for a millimeter or two of
>'slop' between the rounded end of the bolt and the master cylinder piston
>cup.
>
>But I don't feel that slop in any case.
>And I don't know where to measure it either.
>
>Hence the question.


....oh Bubba. Bless your heart. See if I can figger a Redneck
Swampbilly method.

How are you tryin' to "feel" the adjustment of the clutch pedal?

Are you using your hand or using your foot?

Have you put the car in gear?

Rocked the car back and forth to see if the adjustment is to loose or
about just right?

Will the car jalopy down the road?

Does it sit there in gear and not move?

Maybe you are being sensitive. I got more ideas
--
"Dodgeball in Burkas" -- Greg Gutfeld
Ads
  #12  
Old January 27th 18, 10:47 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Clare Snyder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:37:44 +1100, Xeno >
wrote:

>On 27/01/2018 1:47 PM, Mad Roger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:13:56 -0800,
>> Oren wrote:
>>
>>> Why is it you think the clutch pedal "feel" is not an aspect of the
>>> adjustment? The throw out bearing needs to release from the clutch
>>> plate in the bell housing. You can't adjust it by a ruler. You need
>>> a little slop in the pedal so the plate is not always engaged at the
>>> risk of burning the plate.
>>>
>>> ...at least back in the day. Two cents.

>>
>> It's not my vehicle, and the "feel" stinks no matter what position it's in.

>
>The feel doesn't stink just because *you* don't like it.
>>
>> What changes is that it engages early, or late, but not in a way that I
>> like either way.

>
>It will either take up early or it will take up late. It cannot do both,
>either one or the other. Clutches simply cannot work the way you are
>imagining they do.
>>
>> So I can't adjust it by feel because there is no position that feels right
>> to me.

>
>This is a situation where pedancy will stuff you up right royally.
>>
>> Therefore, I just want to adjust it by the book.

>
>Do you have the *book* handy? If not, you are lost.
>
>The method used to adjust a clutch will depend entirely on the mechanism
>employed. There are 3 general possibilities in common use; hydraulic,
>cable, mechanical linkage. Each of those will have variants and the
>differences will make a difference to how and where it is adjusted.
>
>Best you get to it and RTFM.
>>
>> If only I knew what to measure as I think it's for a millimeter or two of
>> 'slop' between the rounded end of the bolt and the master cylinder piston
>> cup.
>>
>> But I don't feel that slop in any case.

>
>If you can't feel the play, it doesn't have any.
>
>If it is meant to have play, then fix it so it does.
>
>> And I don't know where to measure it either.

>
>For master cylinder clearance - At the pedal pushrod in most cases.
>For slave cylinder clearance - at the slave cylinder in most cases.
>>
>> Hence the question.
>>

Better than 90% of vehicles with standard transmissions today have
NO MANUAL ADJUSTMENT PROVISIONS.

Mad MaX is an IDIOT.
  #13  
Old January 27th 18, 10:52 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Clare Snyder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:16:13 +1100, Xeno >
wrote:

>On 27/01/2018 10:52 PM, Look165 wrote:
>> Normally, there should be about 1/2 inch between the resting position of
>> the pedal annd its thrust position (completey up. This is for preventing
>> continuous fricton inside the clutch.

>
>It is actually there to guarantee that the piston can fully return to
>its stop (circlip usually) and fully uncover the compensating port
>allowing pressure in the slave cylinder and lines to release and fluid
>to return to the master cylinder reservoir. If this does not happen, the
>system may pump up and slave cylinder will not return thus not applying
>or only partially applying the clutch. The most common symptom of this,
>apart from a lack of pedal clearance, is a clutch that slips.
>
>Also, it is wise not to dick with the pedal height adjustment as you may
>end up with more MC travel than previously existed. That can result in a
>torn or damaged primary seal if the piston is now traveling over an
>unworn part of the cylinder or, worse, a part of the cylinder that has
>corrosion buildup on the unworn part.
>
>Frankly, if Roger needs to find out how to do the job from advice here,
>he'd be well advised to hand the task over to someone with a clue. This
>is basic stuff, hardly high tech, and he's *struggling*.



The poor lad reminds me of the Irisnman I shared the house with in
Zambia. Anything more complex than a retractable ball-point pen had
him totally flummoxed. To keep his level of frustration below the
point of "blowing smoke" he was restricted to using Bic stick pens
(pencils were no good because a pencil sharpener was beyond his level
of comprehension)


>>
>> Mad Roger a écrit*:
>>> Need help figuring out what to MEASURE when adjusting a self-adjusting
>>> clutch pedal bolt.
>>> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3835507bolt.jpg
>>>
>>> I've adjusted the bolt all the way in, half way, and all the way out:
>>> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8057083bolt2.jpg
>>>
>>> No matter whether I adjust the bolt all the way inside the clutch pedal
>>> (turning it CCW facing the pedal like a foot would).
>>>
>>> Or if I turn the adjusting bolt all the way out of the clutch pedal
>>> (turning it CW).
>>> Or halfway between...
>>>
>>> I don't feel any "slop" anywhere (e.g., between the rounded tip and the
>>> master cylinder piston cup). The *feel* of the clutch pedal engagement
>>> changes drastically between all the way in and all the way out though.
>>>
>>> But clutch pedal feel is not the question (mainly because I don't know
>>> how
>>> it "should" feel). So the question is only about what to measure, and
>>> how.
>>>
>>> The question is only about WHAT to measure with a ruler and how to
>>> measure
>>> it.
>>>

>>

  #14  
Old January 28th 18, 01:19 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Xeno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

On 28/01/2018 8:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:37:44 +1100, Xeno >
> wrote:
>
>> On 27/01/2018 1:47 PM, Mad Roger wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:13:56 -0800,
>>> Oren wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is it you think the clutch pedal "feel" is not an aspect of the
>>>> adjustment? The throw out bearing needs to release from the clutch
>>>> plate in the bell housing. You can't adjust it by a ruler. You need
>>>> a little slop in the pedal so the plate is not always engaged at the
>>>> risk of burning the plate.
>>>>
>>>> ...at least back in the day. Two cents.
>>>
>>> It's not my vehicle, and the "feel" stinks no matter what position it's in.

>>
>> The feel doesn't stink just because *you* don't like it.
>>>
>>> What changes is that it engages early, or late, but not in a way that I
>>> like either way.

>>
>> It will either take up early or it will take up late. It cannot do both,
>> either one or the other. Clutches simply cannot work the way you are
>> imagining they do.
>>>
>>> So I can't adjust it by feel because there is no position that feels right
>>> to me.

>>
>> This is a situation where pedancy will stuff you up right royally.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I just want to adjust it by the book.

>>
>> Do you have the *book* handy? If not, you are lost.
>>
>> The method used to adjust a clutch will depend entirely on the mechanism
>> employed. There are 3 general possibilities in common use; hydraulic,
>> cable, mechanical linkage. Each of those will have variants and the
>> differences will make a difference to how and where it is adjusted.
>>
>> Best you get to it and RTFM.
>>>
>>> If only I knew what to measure as I think it's for a millimeter or two of
>>> 'slop' between the rounded end of the bolt and the master cylinder piston
>>> cup.
>>>
>>> But I don't feel that slop in any case.

>>
>> If you can't feel the play, it doesn't have any.
>>
>> If it is meant to have play, then fix it so it does.
>>
>>> And I don't know where to measure it either.

>>
>> For master cylinder clearance - At the pedal pushrod in most cases.
>> For slave cylinder clearance - at the slave cylinder in most cases.
>>>
>>> Hence the question.
>>>

> Better than 90% of vehicles with standard transmissions today have
> NO MANUAL ADJUSTMENT PROVISIONS.
>
> Mad MaX is an IDIOT.
>

Yep, manufacturing tolerances have improved out of sight in recent years.

--

Xeno
  #15  
Old January 28th 18, 01:21 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Xeno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

On 28/01/2018 8:52 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:16:13 +1100, Xeno >
> wrote:
>
>> On 27/01/2018 10:52 PM, Look165 wrote:
>>> Normally, there should be about 1/2 inch between the resting position of
>>> the pedal annd its thrust position (completey up. This is for preventing
>>> continuous fricton inside the clutch.

>>
>> It is actually there to guarantee that the piston can fully return to
>> its stop (circlip usually) and fully uncover the compensating port
>> allowing pressure in the slave cylinder and lines to release and fluid
>> to return to the master cylinder reservoir. If this does not happen, the
>> system may pump up and slave cylinder will not return thus not applying
>> or only partially applying the clutch. The most common symptom of this,
>> apart from a lack of pedal clearance, is a clutch that slips.
>>
>> Also, it is wise not to dick with the pedal height adjustment as you may
>> end up with more MC travel than previously existed. That can result in a
>> torn or damaged primary seal if the piston is now traveling over an
>> unworn part of the cylinder or, worse, a part of the cylinder that has
>> corrosion buildup on the unworn part.
>>
>> Frankly, if Roger needs to find out how to do the job from advice here,
>> he'd be well advised to hand the task over to someone with a clue. This
>> is basic stuff, hardly high tech, and he's *struggling*.

>
>
> The poor lad reminds me of the Irisnman I shared the house with in
> Zambia. Anything more complex than a retractable ball-point pen had
> him totally flummoxed. To keep his level of frustration below the
> point of "blowing smoke" he was restricted to using Bic stick pens
> (pencils were no good because a pencil sharpener was beyond his level
> of comprehension)
>

Yep, had the same experience in Indonesia - with a South African
co-worker what's more.
>
>>>
>>> Mad Roger a écritÂ*:
>>>> Need help figuring out what to MEASURE when adjusting a self-adjusting
>>>> clutch pedal bolt.
>>>> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3835507bolt.jpg
>>>>
>>>> I've adjusted the bolt all the way in, half way, and all the way out:
>>>> http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8057083bolt2.jpg
>>>>
>>>> No matter whether I adjust the bolt all the way inside the clutch pedal
>>>> (turning it CCW facing the pedal like a foot would).
>>>>
>>>> Or if I turn the adjusting bolt all the way out of the clutch pedal
>>>> (turning it CW).
>>>> Or halfway between...
>>>>
>>>> I don't feel any "slop" anywhere (e.g., between the rounded tip and the
>>>> master cylinder piston cup). The *feel* of the clutch pedal engagement
>>>> changes drastically between all the way in and all the way out though.
>>>>
>>>> But clutch pedal feel is not the question (mainly because I don't know
>>>> how
>>>> it "should" feel). So the question is only about what to measure, and
>>>> how.
>>>>
>>>> The question is only about WHAT to measure with a ruler and how to
>>>> measure
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>



--

Xeno
  #16  
Old January 28th 18, 01:27 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Clare Snyder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 72
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:19:41 +1100, Xeno >
wrote:

>On 28/01/2018 8:47 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:37:44 +1100, Xeno >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/01/2018 1:47 PM, Mad Roger wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:13:56 -0800,
>>>> Oren wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why is it you think the clutch pedal "feel" is not an aspect of the
>>>>> adjustment? The throw out bearing needs to release from the clutch
>>>>> plate in the bell housing. You can't adjust it by a ruler. You need
>>>>> a little slop in the pedal so the plate is not always engaged at the
>>>>> risk of burning the plate.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...at least back in the day. Two cents.
>>>>
>>>> It's not my vehicle, and the "feel" stinks no matter what position it's in.
>>>
>>> The feel doesn't stink just because *you* don't like it.
>>>>
>>>> What changes is that it engages early, or late, but not in a way that I
>>>> like either way.
>>>
>>> It will either take up early or it will take up late. It cannot do both,
>>> either one or the other. Clutches simply cannot work the way you are
>>> imagining they do.
>>>>
>>>> So I can't adjust it by feel because there is no position that feels right
>>>> to me.
>>>
>>> This is a situation where pedancy will stuff you up right royally.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, I just want to adjust it by the book.
>>>
>>> Do you have the *book* handy? If not, you are lost.
>>>
>>> The method used to adjust a clutch will depend entirely on the mechanism
>>> employed. There are 3 general possibilities in common use; hydraulic,
>>> cable, mechanical linkage. Each of those will have variants and the
>>> differences will make a difference to how and where it is adjusted.
>>>
>>> Best you get to it and RTFM.
>>>>
>>>> If only I knew what to measure as I think it's for a millimeter or two of
>>>> 'slop' between the rounded end of the bolt and the master cylinder piston
>>>> cup.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't feel that slop in any case.
>>>
>>> If you can't feel the play, it doesn't have any.
>>>
>>> If it is meant to have play, then fix it so it does.
>>>
>>>> And I don't know where to measure it either.
>>>
>>> For master cylinder clearance - At the pedal pushrod in most cases.
>>> For slave cylinder clearance - at the slave cylinder in most cases.
>>>>
>>>> Hence the question.
>>>>

>> Better than 90% of vehicles with standard transmissions today have
>> NO MANUAL ADJUSTMENT PROVISIONS.
>>
>> Mad MaX is an IDIOT.
>>

>Yep, manufacturing tolerances have improved out of sight in recent years.



It's got very little to do with "manufacturer's tollerances" -
althought they ARE a lot better. The main thing is they are "self
adjusting"
  #17  
Old January 30th 18, 09:17 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Tekkie®
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...


>
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:37:44 +1100, Xeno >
> wrote:
>
> >On 27/01/2018 1:47 PM, Mad Roger wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:13:56 -0800,
> >> Oren wrote:
> >>
> >>> Why is it you think the clutch pedal "feel" is not an aspect of the
> >>> adjustment? The throw out bearing needs to release from the clutch
> >>> plate in the bell housing. You can't adjust it by a ruler. You need
> >>> a little slop in the pedal so the plate is not always engaged at the
> >>> risk of burning the plate.
> >>>
> >>> ...at least back in the day. Two cents.
> >>
> >> It's not my vehicle, and the "feel" stinks no matter what position it's in.

> >
> >The feel doesn't stink just because *you* don't like it.
> >>
> >> What changes is that it engages early, or late, but not in a way that I
> >> like either way.

> >
> >It will either take up early or it will take up late. It cannot do both,
> >either one or the other. Clutches simply cannot work the way you are
> >imagining they do.
> >>
> >> So I can't adjust it by feel because there is no position that feels right
> >> to me.

> >
> >This is a situation where pedancy will stuff you up right royally.
> >>
> >> Therefore, I just want to adjust it by the book.

> >
> >Do you have the *book* handy? If not, you are lost.
> >
> >The method used to adjust a clutch will depend entirely on the mechanism
> >employed. There are 3 general possibilities in common use; hydraulic,
> >cable, mechanical linkage. Each of those will have variants and the
> >differences will make a difference to how and where it is adjusted.
> >
> >Best you get to it and RTFM.
> >>
> >> If only I knew what to measure as I think it's for a millimeter or two of
> >> 'slop' between the rounded end of the bolt and the master cylinder piston
> >> cup.
> >>
> >> But I don't feel that slop in any case.

> >
> >If you can't feel the play, it doesn't have any.
> >
> >If it is meant to have play, then fix it so it does.
> >
> >> And I don't know where to measure it either.

> >
> >For master cylinder clearance - At the pedal pushrod in most cases.
> >For slave cylinder clearance - at the slave cylinder in most cases.
> >>
> >> Hence the question.
> >>

> Better than 90% of vehicles with standard transmissions today have
> NO MANUAL ADJUSTMENT PROVISIONS.
>
> Mad MaX is an IDIOT.


I wonder if this is the clutch he "replaced"?

He doesn't know the olde heat and bend the rod trick... maybe use some all
thread and burn an adjustment hole in the floorboard.

--
Tekkie
  #18  
Old January 30th 18, 09:21 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Tekkie®
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default What to measure when adjusting clutch pedal bolt?

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...


> The poor lad reminds me of the Irisnman I shared the house with in
> Zambia. Anything more complex than a retractable ball-point pen had
> him totally flummoxed. To keep his level of frustration below the
> point of "blowing smoke" he was restricted to using Bic stick pens
> (pencils were no good because a pencil sharpener was beyond his level
> of comprehension)
>


Sharp as a marble aye?

--
Tekkie
 




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