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Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 3rd 10, 02:55 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Carbon
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Posts: 138
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:26:00 -0800, Tim M. wrote:
> On Dec 2, 12:20Â*pm, Christopher Muto > wrote:
>
>> i had a '88 honda crx that regularly got 45mpg, and once over 50 on a
>> long 200+ mile highway drive. Â*that was an amazing car, but didn't
>> handle like the miata, and was surprisingly bad in the snow for a
>> fwd. i think it was just too light for snow. Â*that car makes me
>> wonder what the big deal is about today's hybrids. Â*i mean if 20
>> years ago they could make a gas car get millage like that then what
>> is big deal about things like the prius given all of its complexities
>> and cost. Â*yes, i know the prius has greater seating capacity, but
>> still it doesn't impress me as a significant mpg achievement in the
>> face of the old crx. and the crx did not have any problem stopping
>> when you pressed on the break pedal -

>
> The biggest problem with achieviong gas mileage like that of the CRX
> HF and the Geo Metro and the orginal Plymouth Champ/Dodge Colt be
> Mitsubishi is that today's tiny cars weigh anywhere from 700 to 1,200
> pounds more than those cars because they have:
>
> 1. Lots more airbags
> 2. Lots more soundproofing
> 3. Lots more electric motors for window winding, mirror manipulation,
> etc.
> 4. Lots more solenoids
> 5. Lots more speaker magnets (really!) 6. Lots more.... well, just
> lots more stuff
>
> Wider wheels, wider tires, bigger engines, more performance (the "hot
> hatches" of the 1980's would be considered slow turds as entry-level
> diesels today, and family sedans with Miata-like acceleration numbers
> are routinely castigated as "bog slow" in magazine comparison tests)
> all conspire against big numbers.


Back when I was in college I had an 87 Chevy Sprint Turbo, a rebadged
Suzuki. I believe it weighed 1800 lbs or so and had an intercooled fuel
injected 3-cylinder turbocharged engine producing all of 70 hp. It was a
crude little car but it was cheap to run, a blast to drive and
surprisingly fast.
Ads
  #22  
Old December 3rd 10, 03:32 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Don Q[_2_]
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Posts: 32
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

On 2010-12-02 12:20:33 -0500, Christopher Muto > said:

> i had a '88 honda crx that regularly got 45mpg, and once over 50 on a
> long 200+ mile highway drive. that was an amazing car, but didn't
> handle like the miata, and was surprisingly bad in the snow for a fwd.
> i think it was just too light for snow. that car makes me wonder what
> the big deal is about today's hybrids. i mean if 20 years ago they
> could make a gas car get millage like that then what is big deal about
> things like the prius given all of its complexities and cost. yes, i
> know the prius has greater seating capacity, but still it doesn't
> impress me as a significant mpg achievement in the face of the old crx.
> and the crx did not have any problem stopping when you pressed on the
> break pedal


CRX was great basic transportation for a single guy or maybe a young
couple. Very nimble, considering it was not really meant to be a sports
car. And kind of cute, like the first series Civic (jellybean!).

Would still be a good basic commuter today, except if they have not
rusted to bits they have been molested by ricers. Just try to find a
clean example! sigh

Don

  #23  
Old December 3rd 10, 07:31 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Christopher Muto
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Posts: 306
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

On 12/2/2010 2:53 PM, XS11E wrote:
> Christopher > wrote:
>
>> and the crx did not have any problem stopping when you pressed
>> on the break pedal

>
> It's not supposed to stop when you press on the break pedal, it's
> supposed to break. It's supposed to stop when you press on the brake
> pedal.
>
>
> Sorry, couldn't help it.<BSEG>
>
>


lol! the toyota legal team would probably want to hire you as an expert
witness
  #24  
Old December 4th 10, 12:07 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
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Posts: 587
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%


"Don Q" wrote in message
b.com...
> On 2010-12-02 12:20:33 -0500, Christopher Muto >
> said:
>
> Would still be a good basic commuter today, except if they have not rusted
> to bits they have been molested by ricers. Just try to find a clean
> example! sigh
>
> Don
>

True, they made allot of them but even here in the rust free TX area,
hadn't seen a pristine example in ages!

cd
99BBB

  #25  
Old December 5th 10, 12:28 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Hal
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Posts: 233
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

On Nov 25, 8:02*am, "SilverB" > wrote:
> I'm with you Chris. *After being burned by "Ford Quality" twice (shame on
> me) in the 80s, I'll never buy another one. *They may indeed be better now,
> probably are, but twice burnt is enough for me. * *0% stake would be a
> better level.
>


I watched my folks go through two Tauruses and in the really early
80's, a Chevy Citation; all three were just utter garbage.

I've never bought or owned a domestically engineered/manufactured car
and I'm pretty sure I never will. :-)

Chris
  #26  
Old December 5th 10, 05:03 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Lanny Chambers
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Posts: 832
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

In article
>,
Hal > wrote:

> I watched my folks go through two Tauruses and in the really early
> 80's, a Chevy Citation; all three were just utter garbage.
>
> I've never bought or owned a domestically engineered/manufactured car
> and I'm pretty sure I never will. :-)


I had a 1968 Mustang. I thought it was reliable...but then the only cars
I'd owned previously had been a Jaguar and an MG.

In 80k miles, that 6-cylinder Mustang only went through one clutch and
two sets of spider gears. Oh, and it had begun using oil. Considering it
was my autocross car and not very close to stock, that probably wasn't
too shabby for the late '60s.

The '71 240Z that replaced the Mustang was certainly fun, but it wasn't
any more reliable. A U-joint failed every couple of months like
clockwork (there were six of them), by 50k the driveline lash was really
annoying, it was using oil by 70k, plus it was the poster child for
fender rust.

Other highlights for my well-maintained cars: Toyota Hilux, blew head
gasket. Honda Accord, wiring harness shorted and fried from road salt.
Other Accord, blew head gasket. Mazda GLC, broken spring, rod knock (at
178K miles); departed with its original clutch though.

So far, the Miata is all original at 145k except for some upgrades, and
the 3 has been trouble-free.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C
  #27  
Old December 6th 10, 04:00 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.
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Posts: 56
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

On Dec 4, 6:28*pm, Hal > wrote:
> On Nov 25, 8:02*am, "SilverB" > wrote:
>
> > I'm with you Chris. *After being burned by "Ford Quality" twice (shame on
> > me) in the 80s, I'll never buy another one. *They may indeed be better now,
> > probably are, but twice burnt is enough for me. * *0% stake would be a
> > better level.

>
> I watched my folks go through two Tauruses and in the really early
> 80's, a Chevy Citation; all three were just utter garbage.
>
> I've never bought or owned a domestically engineered/manufactured car
> and I'm pretty sure I never will. :-)


Of course, if Americans had reacted this way to Japanese quality of
the 60's, they never would have bought Japanese vehicles in the 80's,
right?

U.S. domestic auto industry quality improvements have been both faster
and more complete than the journey that the Japanese underwent in the
1960's, but while that process seemed to be hailed as nothing short of
miraculous by American consumers, the even more dramatic improvements
by the domestics are barely even grudgingly acknowledged. At least,
that is the overwhelming impression I get from talking to folks about
cars.

The Ford Fusion has a better three-year quality record according to (I
think) Consumer's Union than either the Accord or the Camry, but that
doesn't seem to create any kind of splash in the U.S. media.

Since I had a zero-defect, first-year, 1988 Chevy Beretta GT (bought
new), a zero-defect, long-term family car in a 1987 Ford Taurus
station wagon, my two boys owned and handed down a 1988 Ford
Thunderbird that went almost 200,000 miles (I did have to put in a
rebuilt engine after the older son drove the car without coolant until
it warped the cylinder heads while he was in college) and my daughter
gave her virtually trouble-free 2000 Ford Taurus (145k miles to date)
to my middle son when she got her used Cadillac CTS-V two years ago,
and I have owned five completely trouble-free Chevy and GM 1500 and
2500 pick-up trucks over the past 15 years, I think I'll just continue
to buy the vehicle that suits my needs, choosing American as often as
possible and settling for another country of origin when I have no
choice, such as when I need another Miata.

My Miatas (three in the family to date) have been trouble-free, but no
more or less so than any of the domestic vehicles I have had.

Hell, my mom had a 1980 Dodge Omni, one of the most villified
domestics in history, and it was just as reliable and almost as
economical as my 1980 Plymouth Champ (a badge-engineered Mitsubishi)
even though it was ugly as sin and no fun to drive. And it had an
AUTOMATIC transaxle, to boot.

A good friend has a Chrysler T&C "mini"van with just under 300,000
miles on it that is is ONLY transportation. In fairness to the
detractors of domestic vehicles, he did have to have the transmission
rebuilt at 270k miles this past summer.

Ah well, I know these anecdotal references do no good, even though in
my recollection of the 70's and 80's it was anecdotal references from
consumer to consumer that pushed Honda and Toyota to their positions
of preeminence in the U.S. auto market in the first place.
  #28  
Old December 11th 10, 04:47 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
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Posts: 587
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%


"Tim M." > wrote in message
news:e1e20c68-2282-42ef-8cb6-

Ah well, I know these anecdotal references do no good, even though in
my recollection of the 70's and 80's it was anecdotal references from
consumer to consumer that pushed Honda and Toyota to their positions
of preeminence in the U.S. auto market in the first place.


Tim, This Chris is with you on this subject. I had a great Omni 024 back in
the day, and I loved the 1987 Ford Taurus that I bought in it's 1st year of
production. Had a decent result with a Dodge Intrepid but even better
results with several Accords. The bigger deal to me is the imports better
seats and switch gear. American companies have traditionally been penny wise
and pound foolish imho.

As for trucks, I've never been less than amazed with the quality of domestic
mfr's trucks, even though very few are still built in the US! Does anybody
beside Dodge build full size trucks in the US? Does Toyota?

Chris
99BBB





  #29  
Old December 13th 10, 05:43 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
T.J. Higgins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

In article >, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>As for trucks, I've never been less than amazed with the quality of domestic
>mfr's trucks, even though very few are still built in the US! Does anybody
>beside Dodge build full size trucks in the US? Does Toyota?


Tundra V8 engines are built in Huntsville, Alabama.

--
TJH
tjhiggin.at.hiwaay.dot.net
  #30  
Old December 14th 10, 12:25 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default Ford Cuts Mazda Stake from 11% to 3.5%

On Dec 10, 10:47*pm, "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:
> "Tim M." > wrote in message
>
> news:e1e20c68-2282-42ef-8cb6-
>
> Ah well, I know these anecdotal references do no good, even though in
> my recollection of the 70's and 80's it was anecdotal references from
> consumer to consumer that pushed Honda and Toyota to their positions
> of preeminence in the U.S. auto market in the first place.
>
> Tim, This Chris is with you on this subject. I had a great Omni 024 back in
> the day, and I loved the 1987 Ford Taurus that I bought in it's 1st year of
> production. Had a decent result with a Dodge Intrepid but even better
> results with several Accords. The bigger deal to me is the imports better
> seats and switch gear. American companies have traditionally been penny wise
> and pound foolish imho.
>
> As for trucks, I've never been less than amazed with the quality of domestic
> mfr's trucks, even though very few are still built in the US! Does anybody
> beside Dodge build full size trucks in the US? Does Toyota?


GM builds Sierras and Silverados in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Ford builds
the F150 in Dearborn, Michigan and Kansas City, Missouri.
 




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