Does this seem right..?

> Like I said, it still strikes me odd that nobody noticed the symptoms of
> broken motor mounts or the smell of leaking fluid that would have been
> burning on a hot engine. You dont have to be a mechanic to notice things
> like an exceptionally shaky car in idle caused by broken motor mounts or
> the
> stinky burning smell or telltale constant fluid leak spots wherever you
> park
> either. Thats the part that doesnt leave me all warm and fuzzy.

I just wanted to comment on this section. They may not have noticed any of
these things because the mount may not have been that bad or bad at all. A
lot of mechanics/service managers will look for anything they can to bill
you for.
Last January I dropped my car in for an oil change and a couple hours later
I got a call that I needed a new serpentine(alternator) belt, air filter and
battery. I told them they could go ahead with the air filter but I wanted to
see the reports and belt for myself. I knew my battery didn't need to be
replaced because three days earlier it was -29C with a windchill of -50C and
my car started on the first shot after sitting overnight. The mechanic was
worried about me because the 700CCA battery was only doing 489CCA at -15C. I
figured almost 500 cold cranking amps should be plenty to turn over and
start a 1.9L engine. A year later I'm still running the same battery that
they told me needed to be replaced immediately and the other day when it
was -20C it started with no delay at all.
The same shop last spring told me that I needed my entire exhaust replaced
from the manifold back. I told them thanks for the estimate and haven't been
back. My catalytic converter had been replaced with a new one by the Saturn
dealership 6 months earlier. I went to Saturn after jacking the car up and
looking for myself. They left all the pipe and cat converter there and just
replaced the muffler which did have a hole in it. They also charged me for a
$2 clamp. $300 for the Saturn muffler was better than $800 for a whole new
system including replacing a six month old cat converter.
This wasn't at a Saturn dealer, it was a Canadian Tire shop. I've had great
experiences with the Saturn dealer here in Fredericton NB, good enough that
I'll definately consider another Saturn.

My advice would be never commit to anything unless you are sure the work
needs to be done. I always go in if I have a problem and tell them I would
like an estimate and a call before any work is done. If I'm suspicious I
just tell them I don't have the money right now and I'll be back later to
get the work done then I go get a second opinion. Of course you can only do
this if the car is driveable.

"marx404" > wrote in message
...
>I have to admit that your particular dealership shop sounds fishy,
>the
> answers that they are offering you, etc.. ie: when you asked about
> the red
> fluid on the engine, why didnt they clean it off, instead of telling
> you
> that it would go away as you drove off? No matter what your
> disposition,
> they should have treated you and done thier work profesionally. No,
> you dont
> even need to be a mechanic to recognize when someone is pulling your
> leg.
>
> Like I said, it still strikes me odd that nobody noticed the
> symptoms of
> broken motor mounts or the smell of leaking fluid that would have
> been
> burning on a hot engine. You dont have to be a mechanic to notice
> things
> like an exceptionally shaky car in idle caused by broken motor
> mounts or the
> stinky burning smell or telltale constant fluid leak spots wherever
> you park
> either. Thats the part that doesnt leave me all warm and fuzzy.
>
> Nonetheless, you need to go find another mechanic. If this occurred
> as you
> state (and kudos to you for keeping reciepts in order) then these
> ppl did
> not handle you nor your car in a very professional manner.
>
> marx404
>
>

The car did not vibrate so I had no notice of any bad motor mounts.
Lack of knowledge in that area and I did not notice any smells until
after the repairs. The car was running great. Very Strange

Elector

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 00:57:13 GMT, "Elector" >
wrote:

>
>"marx404" > wrote in message
...
>> 1st of all, motor mounts dont just go overnight. In your 2nd post
>> you
>> referred to "my regular mechanic", which I guess suggests that this
>> mechanic
>> would have also had an opportunity to notice any problems with your
>> car too
>> during the long period that it takes for motor mounts to go
>> completely bad.
>>
>> Im not being mean here, and it is unfortunate when I read another
>> horror
>> story about saturns, but I dont think you can hold them entirely
>> accountable
>> as you do have a second mechanic who should have noticed any
>> problematic
>> issues. What has occurred between 30k and 60k miles and who did any
>> work in
>> the period in between? If the ONLY mechanic working on your car in
>> between
>> then was Saturn, then your complaint has more merit, but if not,
>> then the
>> responsibility of this unfortunate series of events is now shared
>> between
>> saturn and your "regular mechanic".
>>
>> Personally (and again with all respect, Im not trying to be mean
>> here) I
>> believe there is much more to this story here. Also, IMHO, if that
>> is the
>> way that you were treated by Saturn, that sux and isnt the way. The
>> salesman
>> should have had more patience and couth than that, and if your
>> engine was in
>> such horrid condition in the 1st place, you should have been
>> confronted by
>> the service writer immediately, informed about the bad condition of
>> your car
>> and "asked" if you would like to talk to a salesman concerning
>> getting out
>> of a potentially expensive situation and into a newer or better car,
>> before
>> this whole series of events began.
>>
>> IMHO, if your story is as you say, then I would immediately and
>> without
>> hesitation fire your "regular mechanic" and leave your local Saturn
>> repair
>> shop to go find a more competent mechanic!
>>
>> marx404
>>
>>
>
>Well the first question as to a whole story, well at 30K the Saturn
>Dealership did the service (They did not top off all fluids and the
>oil drain plug was loose. They gave us the 33K oil change for free. At
>36K the oil was changed OK and at 39K, 41K, 44K, 47K, 50K, all the way
>through the 60K service this car has never had a serious problem. The
>Tensioner and pulley were replaced via a SAE certified mechanic do to
>a squeal ( I could scan every single work order and it would show
>service done correctly and no problems).
>
>At the 60K I went in for the service which included the Transmission
>flush and fill, oil change and they (Saturn) said there was a bad
>Coolant Temperature Sensor, and that we needed motor mounts. I have
>all paper work. I also stated on arrival for that service to make sure
>the job was actually done right since we have not had that great a
>service with Saturn of Albany ( I also stated and proved on parking
>the car that there were no leaks of any kind. Oil or transmission or
>coolant. When we got the car back an hour and half later Saturn said
>that the car was in great shape. They also said that the little bit of
>red fluid was due to the transmission fluid being on the engine and
>that it would go away as we drove it. After 9 days it still was
>leaking and it was red in color, on the Saturn work order they stated
>that it also had a additive added to the transmission since Saturn
>recommended it at this mileage.
>
>Not being a mechanic they looked for the leak and said it came from
>the top of the transmission and that some sort of pin or other cracked
>the casing to the transmission and that they did not cause it since
>they replaced the lower motor mounts. Now again the car ran perfect on
>service date in, and I did not question the motor mounts needing
>replacement, or for the coolant temp sensor or the additive for the
>transmission. I am not a mechanic.
>
>However the initial costs quoted was $1804.00 then 45 minutes to an
>hour later it jumped to over $2500.00 and then they came back and said
>after examination the cost was not worth the repair. If I wanted it
>back as to when it came into the dealer it would be $240 for the look
>over. I was then offered a second hand transmission with a 1 year
>warranty for $2800.00 or a remanufactured Saturn transmission for
>$3459.00 with a full 3 year warranty and 36K miles. We opted for the
>full warranty then a day later the dealer ship called and said that
>Saturn needed a $1,000.00 deposit in order to even ship the
>transmission. It was at this point we (Wife and I) decided to tell
>Saturn that we were going to pay the bill and then sue them via the
>maintenance records and that Saturn was the last to touch the car and
>it had no leaks prior to the service. This made the guy at Saturn very
>****ed. So we are now looking at the end of next week for the install.
>They did however give us a brand new 2005 ION to drive while we were
>waiting.
>
>I will not know more until next week.
>
>Elector
>
>
Hi Elector

I live in your neck of the woods and have visited Sat of Alb
when I moved here 3 years ago. My SW2 had 37K and a cracked
resonator. They told be I needed a new exhaust system. After I told
them about the known resonator crack and I personally saw the crack
they changed there tune. Did it for free.
Recently I went there for some lug nuts (wheel nuts). They wanted
$2.86 each. Told them where they could stick them. Got them here,
https://www.saturnparts.com at .68 cents each.
If your transmission case crack didn't affect the operation I would
have used Marine Tex or JB bond to repair it. What they are charging
is a clear ripoff. A used tranny from a wrecker $400 to $800.
Try http://www.saturnfans.com/ for advice

regards
Steve

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Hi Elector
>
> I live in your neck of the woods and have visited Sat of Alb
> when I moved here 3 years ago. My SW2 had 37K and a cracked
> resonator. They told be I needed a new exhaust system. After I told
> them about the known resonator crack and I personally saw the crack
> they changed there tune. Did it for free.
> Recently I went there for some lug nuts (wheel nuts). They wanted
> $2.86 each. Told them where they could stick them. Got them here,
> https://www.saturnparts.com at .68 cents each.
> If your transmission case crack didn't affect the operation I would
> have used Marine Tex or JB bond to repair it. What they are charging
> is a clear ripoff. A used tranny from a wrecker $400 to $800.
> Try http://www.saturnfans.com/ for advice
>
> regards
> Steve

Thanks Steve I may just do that. In the old days I simply went to
AAMCO and it was fixed. Pretty high there also but a better warranty
back then.

Elector

> When it comes to transmissions you really have to shop around hard. A
>guy I know with an Olds Aurora paid over 3000 bucks for a rebuild. I
>told him, after I done some searching on the internet, I could of got
>him a brand new one for 1000 bucks after a core exchange (1700 without
>exchange). It was a 4T80E which is commonly married to the Northstar
>engines. They had to go back into his transmission because they missed
>the actual problem with the transmission. A piston in the valve body was
>cracked. Thats something that would of been avoided with the new
>transmission. Makes me wonder what they spent all that money on for a
>REBUILD. Wasnt on no valve body thats for sure... I would probably have
>replaced his transmission myself for 500-1000 bucks of labor in my
>cramped garage. I would have saved him a grand and he would of had a NEW
>transmission.

Why would they want a core if it was in fact a BRAND NEW tranmission? Usually
cores are for rebuilt things with new ones carrying no core....

> Why would they want a core if it was in fact a BRAND NEW tranmission? Usually
> cores are for rebuilt things with new ones carrying no core....

Thats what gets me too but its not the first time I've seen that before.
If they know someplace that rebuilds them and pays that for cores they
probably just give like a discount on the new one and call it a core
exchange. gmpartsdirect.com is the site that I seen that at.

"BANDIT2941" > wrote in message
...
>> When it comes to transmissions you really have to shop around hard.
>> A
>>guy I know with an Olds Aurora paid over 3000 bucks for a rebuild. I
>>told him, after I done some searching on the internet, I could of
>>got
>>him a brand new one for 1000 bucks after a core exchange (1700
>>without
>>exchange). It was a 4T80E which is commonly married to the Northstar
>>engines. They had to go back into his transmission because they
>>missed
>>the actual problem with the transmission. A piston in the valve body
>>was
>>cracked. Thats something that would of been avoided with the new
>>transmission. Makes me wonder what they spent all that money on for
>>a
>>REBUILD. Wasnt on no valve body thats for sure... I would probably
>>have
>>replaced his transmission myself for 500-1000 bucks of labor in my
>>cramped garage. I would have saved him a grand and he would of had a
>>NEW
>>transmission.
>
> Why would they want a core if it was in fact a BRAND NEW
> tranmission? Usually
> cores are for rebuilt things with new ones carrying no core....


That's its exactly what I was wondering. A transmission from Saturn to
Saturn on a Saturn bought there was a real kicker. However after it
is repaired I will buy a new car from Chrysler. What a run around and
now I have to sue to recoup most of the money back.

Elector

"Elector" > wrote in message
...
> Ten days ago I went to the Saturn dealership in Albany New York and had
> the 60,000 mile service. This was an oil change, a transmission flush and
> fill, lube all doors and what ever else they said came with that service.
>
> At the same time they said the motor mounts were bad and I had them
> replaced on the 99 SL1. Please remember this car has never had a problem
> outside of the tensioner and pulley last year. However they checked the
> car over and they said all was great to go.
>
> Now the next night after the service we notice a burning smell and see
> transmission fluid on our garage floor. I call Saturn and they said it was
> more than likely run off or spillage and not to be concerned. They also
> said that they had to replace the Coolant Temperature Sensor and that may
> also be part of the problem.
>
> Now to the fun and games department. I went in yesterday and I showed them
> the leak, they originally said it was simply a bolt that had to be
> tightened. OK so I wait 30 minutes and the guy comes out and say's that
> the leak is from the top of the transmission and that it may be a cracked
> casing. ?? Now I said why did you not see that when it was brought in 10
> days ago since this car never had a leak in its life? The guy said to
> properly diagnose the problem would take around 3 hours for $240 and then
> they could determine better what could be wrong.
>
> Well I waited over an hour and one half and the guy comes out and say's we
> drained the fluid and it was pink/purple and that the casing had a crack
> and it would now cost $1800.00+ again he said I could buy a remanufactured
> transmission for $3400.00 or a used one for $2400.00 I then stated I
> wanted the used parts back and he said there was a core charge from Saturn
> for the old transmission and that I could not now get the old parts back
> to have it looked at by a mechanic around the corner from my home. I
> called this mechanic and he said that I was taken since if you never had a
> leak before the service it was totally possible that Saturn caused the
> problem when they did the service. He also said the pink tint would come
> from a coolant leak from the radiator into the transmission, or the casing
> was cracked when they replace the motor mounts (Lower) and he found it
> very suspicious.
>
> To add insult to injury they loaned us a brand new Saturn ION and its a
> nice looking and running car. We wanted to just trade the older car in and
> they said they don't use Kelly's Blue Book or NADA but some sort of
> Auction Book and at they best they would not proceed with the repairs and
> that it was not worth anything to them, unless we paid for the repair and
> then traded in the car towards the ION we are now driving. I told this guy
> he was out of his mind. Since the major cost was labor and not the parts
> themselves and that they could have placed the older transmission back in
> and could have gotten at least $6,000 since the car is in excellent
> condition.
>
> In any case the dealerships sales man was a real asshole and we decided to
> just pay the repair bill and then buy a supplemental car from Chrysler on
> a new jeep. He then counter back with a $300-$500 off the price of the new
> car and then I said we also had a certificate for $5,000 off your best
> deal and he said be careful of the expiration date. It was for the month
> of December and I said I still have a few days left. The guy was a total
> jerk.
>
> In any way do you think the transmission could have been bad the way they
> said it did, or could the dealership actually damaged the vehicle when
> they serviced it?
>
> Elector
>

I just was in to get my remote keyless entry programmed on my 00' SC2 and
came back that night and was checking over stuff and found that my oil was
low....it was changed less than a 1000 miles ago, hasn't ever leaked and
continues not to.....don't know if i trust my local saturn dealership after
that.

"Caleb Olson" > wrote in message
...
>
> I just was in to get my remote keyless entry programmed on my 00' SC2 and
> came back that night and was checking over stuff and found that my oil was
> low....it was changed less than a 1000 miles ago, hasn't ever leaked and
> continues not to.....don't know if i trust my local saturn dealership
> after that.
>

Start checking it when you get gas to get a feel for the consumption rate.
One qt in 2000 miles used to be within spec. Some use this much, some more
and some less.