radiator leak

Private wrote:
> "seawater" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Thir reccomendation to use 50/50 mixture isnt to save coolant , it is
> > to give proper freeze and boil protection. the corosion protection doea
> > not come from the glycol it comes from the additives. The glycol is
> > actually more corrosive than the water, and speeking of the water you
> > should use deionized water rather than distilled water, it is less
> > corrosive than the distilled water. Deionised water can be found in
> > drug stores. Its not free but it is cheap.
> >
>
> What is the difference between distilled and deionized water?
> How is deionized water made?
>
> Thanks

Deionization entails removal of electrically charged (ionized)
dissolved
substances by binding them to positively or negatively charged sites on
a
resin as the water passes through a column packed with this resin. It
can alsobe maid by reverse osmosis as described above (see membrane).

seawater wrote:
> Private wrote:
>> "seawater" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> Thir reccomendation to use 50/50 mixture isnt to save coolant , it is
>>> to give proper freeze and boil protection. the corosion protection doea
>>> not come from the glycol it comes from the additives. The glycol is
>>> actually more corrosive than the water, and speeking of the water you
>>> should use deionized water rather than distilled water, it is less
>>> corrosive than the distilled water. Deionised water can be found in
>>> drug stores. Its not free but it is cheap.
>>>
>> What is the difference between distilled and deionized water?
>> How is deionized water made?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Deionization entails removal of electrically charged (ionized)
> dissolved
> substances by binding them to positively or negatively charged sites on
> a
> resin as the water passes through a column packed with this resin. It
> can alsobe maid by reverse osmosis as described above (see membrane).

Whether de-ionized or destilled, you're definitely better off than if
you used tap water.

Again, as long as you have enough additives to prevent corrosion and
enough glycol to prevent freezing in your environment, putting "extra"
in the mix is only going to diminish the cooling capacity of your
cooling system and needlessly waste your money. 50/50 is the way to go.

Cheers,

On Fri, 19 May 2006 16:38:35 -0400, Ritz > wrote:

>Whether de-ionized or destilled, you're definitely better off than if
>you used tap water.

Good advise
>

50/50 is the way go

Not in a engine with a high aluminum content unless you do not plan to
keep it long.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

SnoMan wrote:
> On Fri, 19 May 2006 16:38:35 -0400, Ritz > wrote:
>
>> Whether de-ionized or destilled, you're definitely better off than if
>> you used tap water.
>
> Good advise
>
> 50/50 is the way go
>
> Not in a engine with a high aluminum content unless you do not plan to
> keep it long.

Repeating yourself isn't going to change the laws of physics. If you've
got some credible information to back up your position, then present it.

I suspect that you don't or you would have already done so.

So in short, you're wrong. When I need advice on snow plows I'll give
ya a call, but I think you might want to refrain from repeating the bad
advice above 'lest some greenhorn take it for gospel and waste their
money while doing a worse job at cooling their engine.

Have a nice day,

"seawater" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Private wrote:
>> "seawater" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > Thir reccomendation to use 50/50 mixture isnt to save coolant , it is
>> > to give proper freeze and boil protection. the corosion protection doea
>> > not come from the glycol it comes from the additives. The glycol is
>> > actually more corrosive than the water, and speeking of the water you
>> > should use deionized water rather than distilled water, it is less
>> > corrosive than the distilled water. Deionised water can be found in
>> > drug stores. Its not free but it is cheap.
>> >
>>
>> What is the difference between distilled and deionized water?
>> How is deionized water made?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Deionization entails removal of electrically charged (ionized)
> dissolved
> substances by binding them to positively or negatively charged sites on
> a
> resin as the water passes through a column packed with this resin. It
> can alsobe maid by reverse osmosis as described above (see membrane).
>

Is it correct to say that 'RO water IS deionized water'?

but 'all deionized water is not made by RO'?

Is there any functional difference between deionized and RO water?

I am still unclear, why is deionized better for coolant than distilled?

Is distilled the still the best for use in wet cell LA batteries?

TIA

On Fri, 19 May 2006 17:02:16 -0400, Ritz > wrote:

>Repeating yourself isn't going to change the laws of physics.


I guess you never figure that out as you are REALY stuck on 50/50 as
being the best. Given water known reactiviety and the fact that
reducing it reduces reactively and that increasing antifreeze increase
mass of coolant and abilty to transfer it as well os lower surface
tension which aids in the forming of gas bubble that block heat
transfer, a higher consentration is the way to go. Sure follow your
way if you want but I can show you a 1954 JD tractor that has no had a
coolant change in over 19 years and it has between 80 and 90%
antifreeze in it and it is still as clean as the dau I put it in. See,
I have no desire to have to replace a raditor that is very expensive
and hard to find so I use what I know works. If I used your method, it
would have been in a lot worse shape even if I changed it regulary.

You need to go back to your physics book because you do not fully
understand what you are trying to sell.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

SnoMan wrote:
> On Fri, 19 May 2006 17:02:16 -0400, Ritz > wrote:
>
>> Repeating yourself isn't going to change the laws of physics.
>
>
> I guess you never figure that out as you are REALY stuck on 50/50 as
> being the best. Given water known reactiviety and the fact that
> reducing it reduces reactively and that increasing antifreeze increase
> mass of coolant and abilty to transfer it as well os lower surface
> tension which aids in the forming of gas bubble that block heat
> transfer, a higher consentration is the way to go. Sure follow your
> way if you want but I can show you a 1954 JD tractor that has no had a
> coolant change in over 19 years and it has between 80 and 90%
> antifreeze in it and it is still as clean as the dau I put it in. See,
> I have no desire to have to replace a raditor that is very expensive
> and hard to find so I use what I know works. If I used your method, it
> would have been in a lot worse shape even if I changed it regulary.
>
> You need to go back to your physics book because you do not fully
> understand what you are trying to sell.


Um...OK, I give up. You appear to be untrainable and don't care to
learn even if you could be trained. *shrug*

For the record, I'm not trying to sell anything. I have absolutely
nothing to gain other than the satisfaction of helping a few folks who
may have listened to your uninformed hogwash and who will now hopefully
know better.

Stick to 1954 tractors...lest you inadvertently cause some novice to
damage their expensive automobile.

Cheers,

Ritz,

Question: Who is more the fool, the fool himself or the person who continues
to argue with him?

I asked the SnoMan to cite his source and he basically refused thereby
telling us that he has none ... as such, his statement that antifreeze is a
better thermal conductor than water is a *personal belief* and not a
scientifically supportable fact. Let him think what he wants. Remember
this is the very same person that leaves the same old 70/30 coolant mixture
in his vehicle for 7-8 years. There is no manufacturer out there that
recommends this as best practice, not even with the newest 5-year
antifreeze. Like you, I hate to see him promote this since it is just plain
bad practice. You have done your part by warning others not to listen to
that advice.

It is true that both the boiling temperature and freezing point are indeed
extended up to a 70/30 antifreeze/water mixture, but the thermal cooling
does not follow this same curve.

Bob

"Ritz" > wrote in message
news
> SnoMan wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 May 2006 17:02:16 -0400, Ritz > wrote:
>>
>>> Repeating yourself isn't going to change the laws of physics.
>>
>>
>> I guess you never figure that out as you are REALY stuck on 50/50 as
>> being the best. Given water known reactiviety and the fact that
>> reducing it reduces reactively and that increasing antifreeze increase
>> mass of coolant and abilty to transfer it as well os lower surface
>> tension which aids in the forming of gas bubble that block heat
>> transfer, a higher consentration is the way to go. Sure follow your
>> way if you want but I can show you a 1954 JD tractor that has no had a
>> coolant change in over 19 years and it has between 80 and 90%
>> antifreeze in it and it is still as clean as the dau I put it in. See,
>> I have no desire to have to replace a raditor that is very expensive
>> and hard to find so I use what I know works. If I used your method, it
>> would have been in a lot worse shape even if I changed it regulary. You
>> need to go back to your physics book because you do not fully
>> understand what you are trying to sell.
>
>
> Um...OK, I give up. You appear to be untrainable and don't care to learn
> even if you could be trained. *shrug*
>
> For the record, I'm not trying to sell anything. I have absolutely
> nothing to gain other than the satisfaction of helping a few folks who may
> have listened to your uninformed hogwash and who will now hopefully know
> better.
>
> Stick to 1954 tractors...lest you inadvertently cause some novice to
> damage their expensive automobile.
>
> Cheers,
>

Bob Shuman wrote:
> Ritz,
>
> Question: Who is more the fool, the fool himself or the person who continues
> to argue with him?

You're right.

Cheers,

"Ritz" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Shuman wrote:
>> Ritz,
>>
>> Question: Who is more the fool, the fool himself or the person who
>> continues to argue with him?
>
> You're right.
>
> Cheers,

I hesitate to jump into this mud fight but

While IMHO 70/30 is a bit too strong (and will do nothing to prevent the
failure of plastic radiator end caps) there is a case to be made for a
mixture slightly stronger than 50/50.

The maximum freeze protection (for ethylene glycol) is at approx 60%. IMHO
55/45 or 60/40 is better than 45/55 or 40/60 and the real danger with too
weak a solution is not freezing but rather gelling caused by the blast of
cold air at highway speed especially if the car is not completely warm
before hitting the highway on a really cold day. This gelling will not
crack the block or rad but can reduce the flow enough to cause overheating.
Winter fronts are often used to control this wind blast and can help to keep
the engine and interior of the car warmer when it is really cold. Global
warming has meant that we do not see winter fronts and cardboard used as
often as in the past. However since global warming is forecast to result in
more weather extremes I think we will see severe cold again but probably not
for as long a duration as in the past. Last winter was warmer (in western
NA) than usual which may mean that next year will be colder.

EG also significantly raises the boiling point of the coolant but I do not
have the data handy as to the best ratio for hot climates, and I am sure
there is more knowledge about this from southern users.

The bubbles that Snoman refers to are the result of cavitation and can be a
real problem in diesel motors and can actually result in corrosion pitting
and even perforation of cylinder liners. Interestingly this cavitation does
not occur over the entire liner but rather in a localized ring pattern.
There are several additives used to control this and other types of
corrosion and to improve the 'wetness' of the coolant.

I am more concerned with the high silicates content of aluminum compatible
EG which can drop out in the form of silica gel and is abrasive to water
pump seals. I really do not like aluminum compatible EG coolant and in
older iron engines with copper rads I like to use low silicate diesel
coolant.

In the tiny Saturn engines there is very little extra cost involved in
purchasing top quality long life coolant and mixing only with distilled (or
deionizer) water. Frequent coolant changes are also cheap maintenance and
coolant is a lot cheaper than failed water pumps or radiators or heater
cores.

Just my .02, YMMV