94 SL2 Persistent problems...

94 Saturn SL2

Aprox. 97,000 miles on it. Engine seems fine and so does the manal
transmission. About 2 months ago the SES light started coming on whenever
I would be idle at a red light or something and the temperature gauge was
at 3-4/16's. As soon as I'd start driving, the SES light would go off when
I reached the speed of 25 - 30 mph. took it to a mechanic to fix it. He
put in a new fan and tried to hook up a switch internally so that I could
turn it on when the temp gauge showed it to be running hot but I told him
no. After testing it with just the new fan, the SES light was still coming
on. Clearing the error codes didn't stop it either. At the time, the error
codes were 26, 27 (same as 26) and 53 (new spark plugs fixed that). After
he worked on it a little longer, he was obviously not getting anywhere, I
was told that I needed to get a new or used computer for it. Realizing
that the guy was more than incompetent at this point, I left. At this
point when I left, the SES was now always on and still is. I pulled the
codes from it (paper clip trick) and now am getting error codes: 23 + 26.
I know that 23 is a sensor and it can easily be replaced. My thinking is,
by going back to when the SES light starting coming on and how and when,
there's gotta be something more than replacing the computer is going to
resolve. Especially since I have been more than once told that replacing
the computer doesn't mean that the SES light problem will go away. Is the
computer usually the first thing to be suspected? A short wire or
something can't cause this?

What else could cause this? Some have told me to replace the thermostat,
others say it's another sensor "somewhere". I'm at my wits end because I
can't figure out what's going and how to fix it. Plus, I need to have it
fixed in order to pass the inspection. It won't pass if the SES light is
on. While I don't expect any answers here, I figured it would be worth a
shot. Someone out there must know a thing or two about what's going on.

Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I've been bounced around a ton already
with no resolution to this problem.

23 and 26 say...

23: IAT Circuit - Temp out of range low
26: Quad driver output fault

If I'm reading the Chilton's right, the quad driver controls outputs like
solenoids, relays and indicator lights. The quad driver appears to control:
canister purge solenoid, egr solenoid, coolant fan relay, service engine
soon light, upshift/shift to D2, coolant hot light, control relay and
speedometer output.

Hope this gives you some insight - any chance you can take it to a Saturn
Service tech (I'm most comfortable with them over a local mechanic)...

....let us know how you make out.


"Cozmo" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
> 94 Saturn SL2
>
> Aprox. 97,000 miles on it. Engine seems fine and so does the manal
> transmission. About 2 months ago the SES light started coming on whenever
> I would be idle at a red light or something and the temperature gauge was
> at 3-4/16's. As soon as I'd start driving, the SES light would go off when
> I reached the speed of 25 - 30 mph. took it to a mechanic to fix it. He
> put in a new fan and tried to hook up a switch internally so that I could
> turn it on when the temp gauge showed it to be running hot but I told him
> no. After testing it with just the new fan, the SES light was still coming
> on. Clearing the error codes didn't stop it either. At the time, the error
> codes were 26, 27 (same as 26) and 53 (new spark plugs fixed that). After
> he worked on it a little longer, he was obviously not getting anywhere, I
> was told that I needed to get a new or used computer for it. Realizing
> that the guy was more than incompetent at this point, I left. At this
> point when I left, the SES was now always on and still is. I pulled the
> codes from it (paper clip trick) and now am getting error codes: 23 + 26.
> I know that 23 is a sensor and it can easily be replaced. My thinking is,
> by going back to when the SES light starting coming on and how and when,
> there's gotta be something more than replacing the computer is going to
> resolve. Especially since I have been more than once told that replacing
> the computer doesn't mean that the SES light problem will go away. Is the
> computer usually the first thing to be suspected? A short wire or
> something can't cause this?
>
> What else could cause this? Some have told me to replace the thermostat,
> others say it's another sensor "somewhere". I'm at my wits end because I
> can't figure out what's going and how to fix it. Plus, I need to have it
> fixed in order to pass the inspection. It won't pass if the SES light is
> on. While I don't expect any answers here, I figured it would be worth a
> shot. Someone out there must know a thing or two about what's going on.
>
> Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I've been bounced around a ton already
> with no resolution to this problem.
>

26: Quad driver output fault

Saturn wants $1,500+ to replace it. They didn't check anything under the
hood, or looked for shorts or bad sensors or anything like that. First
thing said: "We'll have to get a new computer in that there car". I was
like: and how did you determine that the computer is the culprit? Dead
silence and then... "would you like to make an appointment to bring it in
and have it replaced? Should only cost about $1,500

Are they nuts!?!

Even though there are so many things that can cause this error code, that
was their quick and easy diagnosis. What a crock...

I'm still betting that the key to the whole problem is in this statement
right he

About 2 months ago the SES light started coming on
whenever I would be idle at a red light or something and the temperature
gauge was at 3-4/16's. As soon as I'd start driving, the SES light would
go off when I reached the speed of 25 - 30 mph.

Error code 23 is IAT circuit low - sensor needs to be replaced. This
shouldn't be much of an issue.

Anybody have any thoughts?

When ever you have a quad driver fault code with an additional code, always
repair the additional first.

99% of the time, once the additonal code is repaired, the quad driver code will
also go away.

It has happened to me several times over the 12 years I have owned my '92 SL2.

James

4 controls/sensors on that engine probably should be replaced if not yet.

Intake Air Temp Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp Sensor, Canister Purge Valve, and
EGR solenoid are the most common componets to go bad. All 4 items can be bought
for less than $100 if you can install them yourself.

James

1995 and earlier use a temp sender and a temp sensor. The single wire temp
sender connects to the instrument panel and the two wire temp sensor
connects to the PCM. There are diagnostics a tech (or a backyard mechanic
with a Chilton's) can do. I think I've read here in the newsgroup that the
connector gets corroded too.

....think I'd find another dealer to collaborate the diagnoses - if the PCM
is dead I'd sure bug Joe to see what he wants for a used one...
http://www.6thplanetusedparts.com

"Cozmo" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
> 26: Quad driver output fault
>
> Saturn wants $1,500+ to replace it. They didn't check anything under the
> hood, or looked for shorts or bad sensors or anything like that. First
> thing said: "We'll have to get a new computer in that there car". I was
> like: and how did you determine that the computer is the culprit? Dead
> silence and then... "would you like to make an appointment to bring it in
> and have it replaced? Should only cost about $1,500
>
> Are they nuts!?!
>
> Even though there are so many things that can cause this error code, that
> was their quick and easy diagnosis. What a crock...
>
> I'm still betting that the key to the whole problem is in this statement
> right he
>
> About 2 months ago the SES light started coming on
> whenever I would be idle at a red light or something and the temperature
> gauge was at 3-4/16's. As soon as I'd start driving, the SES light would
> go off when I reached the speed of 25 - 30 mph.
>
> Error code 23 is IAT circuit low - sensor needs to be replaced. This
> shouldn't be much of an issue.
>
> Anybody have any thoughts?
>

Good post - should have read yours before leaving mine...

"James1549" > wrote in message
...
> When ever you have a quad driver fault code with an additional code,
always
> repair the additional first.
>
> 99% of the time, once the additonal code is repaired, the quad driver code
will
> also go away.
>
> It has happened to me several times over the 12 years I have owned my '92
SL2.
>
> James

Also, how realistic is it that the PCM can go bad? And can a person
reprogram it without having to buy a new one? Any other thoughts on this?

Are there any good websites that get into detail on how to diagnose / test
anything that might be causing error code 26? Verifying sensors, stuff
like that. So far, I've found one that seems to be pretty helpful and
since I'm sure there are people here that could use it, here's the link:

http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/

Btw, everybody here has been most helpful and I appreciate it. I'm gonna
follows y'alls advice, but will look into more scenarios that people might
have.

Thank you!

On Fri, 14 May 2004 02:23:02 +0000, James1549 wrote:

> 4 controls/sensors on that engine probably should be replaced if not yet.

Indeed. On my 93 SL2, I was getting codes 26 (quad driver) and 32 (EGR
valve) so I just replaced the EGR solenoid and EGR valve, and the code 26
disappeared. The original poster should do what James says before
anything else:

> Intake Air Temp Sensor, Engine Coolant Temp Sensor, Canister Purge
> Valve, and EGR solenoid are the most common componets to go bad. All 4
> items can be bought for less than $100 if you can install them yourself.
>
> James

Well, so far we found out that the ATS sensor was totally missing, so
getting a new sensor took care of error 23. However, the air induction
tube that sits at the very front is missing too. Shall we say that the
previous mechanic that changed out the fan never put the air induction
tube back on is a total moron? I called that shop and told them I want my
air induction tube back even if they have to buy a new one from Saturn and
to make sure that the previous mechanic never, ever works on our car
again. They were apologetic and promised that they'll do as such.

Now, the new ATS sensor sits by the air filter container and the car still
gives error 26 as before. Once the temp gauge gets to aprox. 3-4/16's and
I come to an idle position, the SES light comes on. Once the cars moving
and I get to 25-30mph the SES goes off. The only thing I can think of
besides the very rare ocassion that the PCM is faulty, is that the ATS
sensor is not placed in its proper position because the air induction tube
is not there. What do you guys think?