Which To Buy?

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
>
> what's that based on? analysis? manufacturer spec?

Common sense, really. Since implementing this procedure, transmission
problems and failures have ceased to occur. The replacement of the
transmission fluid and the filtres cost in the range of $300.00 to $400.00,
much less expensive than repairing or replacing an Allison transmission in a
large truck.

Brian Smith wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>> what's that based on? analysis? manufacturer spec?
>
> Common sense, really. Since implementing this procedure, transmission
> problems and failures have ceased to occur. The replacement of the
> transmission fluid and the filtres cost in the range of $300.00 to $400.00,
> much less expensive than repairing or replacing an Allison transmission in a
> large truck.
>
>
i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the
lower failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison
changed anything in their transmissions? and what was the failure mode?
metal fatigue for instance is not known to be influenced by oil filter
cleanliness. clutch life isn't rally affected by it either. operation
tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not
necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
>
> i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the lower
> failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed
> anything in their transmissions? and what was the failure mode? metal
> fatigue for instance is not known to be influenced by oil filter
> cleanliness. clutch life isn't rally affected by it either. operation
> tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not
> necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission.

In the past the transmission fluid and filtres hadn't been changed
except when the transmissions displayed problems (not shifting correctly,
jumping in and out of gear). Once I implemented the yearly changes, there
have been no further issues with any of the transmissions. The down time
that was experienced in the past was a killer on the schedules. They are
specialized trucks and one can't rent replacements from Ryder, so they have
to be working properly every day, all day long.

On 3/3/07 1:50 PM, in article nkkGh.3242$cE3.3113@edtnps89, "Brian Smith"
> wrote:

>
> "E Meyer" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Whether it makes sense is not the point. The point is that it doesn't
>> matter with the Nissans and it definitely does on the Hondas.
>>
>> In fact, unlike Honda, changing brake fluid is not on the maintenance
>> list
>> for any of the Nissans and changing transmission fluid is only by
>> condition,
>> not time or mileage.
>
> I should add that I am the manager for a truck fleet (all automatic
> transmission equipped), the transmission fluid and filtres are replaced
> every year as part of the fleet's preventative maintenance program.
>
>

Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of car
owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less,
not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have
specified something.

I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.

E Meyer wrote:

> I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
> manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
> to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.

And the end result is that Hondas experience less non-routine problems than
Nissans do.

Brian Smith wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>> i'm interested to know - have you established from testing that the lower
>> failure rate is a function of this maint. schedule, or has allison changed
>> anything in their transmissions? and what was the failure mode? metal
>> fatigue for instance is not known to be influenced by oil filter
>> cleanliness. clutch life isn't rally affected by it either. operation
>> tends to get less smooth as particulates accumulate, but that's not
>> necessarily going to affect overall life of the transmission.
>
> In the past the transmission fluid and filtres hadn't been changed
> except when the transmissions displayed problems (not shifting correctly,
> jumping in and out of gear). Once I implemented the yearly changes, there
> have been no further issues with any of the transmissions. The down time
> that was experienced in the past was a killer on the schedules. They are
> specialized trucks and one can't rent replacements from Ryder, so they have
> to be working properly every day, all day long.
>

ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.

this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the
result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance
schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with
you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
>
> ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.
>
> this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the
> result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance
> schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with
> you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.

I know what you're saying, but we don't live in an ideal world <g>.
Doing what I did was the logical step towards solving the problem(s), with
Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a
grand when looking for the answer.

"E Meyer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Good for you. I think it is completely safe to say the vast majority of
> car
> owners do whatever maintenance is specified by the owners manual or less,
> not more. If it is all that important, the manufacturer would have
> specified something.

True enough.

> I'm talking about maintenance religiously conducted according to
> manufacturer's recommendations, no more, no less. If you follow the books
> to the letter, Honda requires more upkeep than Nissan does.

I'll agree with you on this partly. I have a friend who purchased his
Nissan within a week of me purchasing my Honda. He does less than 70% of the
preventative maintenance that I do and he's had more problems than I have
experienced with my last three Honda vehicles. On top of that, three years
into our purchases his Nissan has a fair amount of rust on his gas tank and
the floor of the car, as well as a number of mechanical failures.My Honda
had none of these problems. Preventative maintenance is the key.

Brian Smith wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>> ok, if filter clogging is an issue, then it's good to change them.
>>
>> this should have been revealed in failure analysis though, not be the
>> result of what is, with respect, a pretty much random maintenance
>> schedule. in an ideal world, you'd have had the manufacturer work with
>> you to figure this stuff out, not just gouge you for new transmissions.
>
> I know what you're saying, but we don't live in an ideal world <g>.
> Doing what I did was the logical step towards solving the problem(s), with
> Allison's labour rate of $105.00 an hour it doesn't take long to waste a
> grand when looking for the answer.
>
>
but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should
have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem.
from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service
feedback as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody
bothers to let the design team know [not the service tech] that their
filters clog outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in
san francisco, a number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by
auto makers so we have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in
taxi livery charging up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills,
etc. they do this so they can install "black box" data recorders in
them and find out how their vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly
city. they do it in las vegas too for heat. if they have the data,
they can design accordingly. no data, inadequate design.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
>
> but for stuff like that, i don't think you should be paying - you should
> have one of the allison design team down there resolving your problem.
> from a manufacturer perspective, they need as much field service feedback
> as possible to make sure your stuff works properly. if nobody bothers to
> let the design team know [not the service tech] that their filters clog
> outside of the lab, they'll never deal with it. here in san francisco, a
> number of the taxi companies run fleets sponsored by auto makers so we
> have all the latest and greatest of their vehicles in taxi livery charging
> up and down the badly pot-holed streets, hills, etc. they do this so they
> can install "black box" data recorders in them and find out how their
> vehicles perform in "real world" for a hilly city. they do it in las
> vegas too for heat. if they have the data, they can design accordingly.
> no data, inadequate design.

I do understand what you are saying, but a small fleet of trucks doesn't
seem to draw their attention. I would think that one truck having problems
with their product would garner attention, but not yet.