Most Big Suv/Truck owners deserve what they're they're paying at thegas pump

"Sal" > wrote in message
...
> I never said small cars are safer, I said out of all the vehicle
> segments, Midsize Luxury cars are the safest vehicles overall. I was
> just saying that some SUVs are so dangerous that even small cars are
> safer than them.

The statistics you are using take no account of driver skill or miles
driven. Midsize luxury cars are primarily owned by richer, older drivers,
who on average, are likely to be much safer drivers. Even with this
disparity, SUVs and Luxury cars have very similar injury loss histories (see
http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/fa...age_04to06.pdf
and
http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/fa...age_04to06.pdf )
..

> The fact that The Hummer H2 and the Ford Excursion have MUCH MUCH
> higher death and injury rates than the safest cars just goes to show
> you that Size alone doesn't buy you safety.

This is not a true statement.

Injury loss rating for the 2003-2005 Ford Excursion is 74, well below
average for all vehicles. The injury loss rating for the 2003-2005 H2 Hummer
is 61. These ratings are better than the majority of cars (small, medium,
large, luxury, etc.). There are cars with better ratings, but most are worse
and many are far worse. The very safest car in the 2003-2005 injury loss
ratings is the Audi Allroad Quattro wagon 4WD with a 45 injury loss rating.
Admittedly this is much better than the Excursion, but it is also much
better than the following cars (model / injury loss rating):

Cadillac STS 4dr 2WD/4WD 74
Mercedes E class 4dr 76
Volvo S80 4dr 76 105
Lexus GS series 4dr 79
Lincoln LS 4dr 79
BMW 5 series 4dr 84
Cadillac CTS 4dr 98
Infiniti G35 4dr 4WD 72
BMW 3 series conv 72
BMW 3 series 4dr 4WD 75
Saab 9-3 conv 77
Acura TL series 4dr 77
Lexus ES series 4dr 80
Mercedes CLK class 2dr 80
Mercedes CLK class conv 81
Infiniti G35 2dr 86
Infiniti G35 4dr 88
Volvo S60 4dr 88
Mercedes C class 4dr 4WD 90
BMW 3 series 2dr 91
Volvo S60 4dr 4WD 91
BMW M3 2dr 95
BMW 3 series 4dr 99
Jaguar X-Type 4dr 4WD 104
Mercedes C class 2dr 108
Mercedes C class 4dr 114
Lexus IS 300 4dr 123

How does this fit in with your claim that Large SUVs are more dangerous than
luxury cars?

> When an 18 wheeler is
> about to t-bone you, it's much better to be in a 2008 V6 Accord or a
> 2008 V8 Volvo S80 than in an Excursion or Hummer H2. at least the cars
> accelerate themselves out of trouble while the SUVs can't.

So I should get a Mustang 500KR? Just how often do you think this sort of
scenario happens?

2007 Volvo S80: 0-60 8.6 Sec
2007 Chevrolet Tahoe: 0-60 9.0 sec
2007 Expedition LE: 0-60 9.1 Sec (they no longer sell Excursions, the EL
Expedition is the replacement)
2008 Accord V-6: 0-60 7.4
2008 Accord I-4: 0-60 9.8

So using your theory, the V6 accord is the safest vehicle in this list and
the I-4 Accord is the least safe? Do you really think if an 18 wheeler is
bearing down on you the difference in acceleration between the Volvo and
Tahoe will determine whether or not you get out of the way? I could make the
argument that the higher driving position of the SUV gives you a better
chance of seeing the 18 wheeler coming, giving you a lot more time to get
out of the way.

> Answer me this, HOW many SUVs have 25 out of 25 stars in the 5 NHTSA
> crash tests? The answer is 0.

There are not five NHTSA "CRASH" tests. It is bad enough when you cherry
pick statistics, but now you are just making them up out of thin air. There
are four crash tests (Front Driver, Front Passenger, Side Driver, Side Rear
Passenger). There is also a rollover rating, but this is most definitely is
not a CRASH test. There are many SUVs that get five stars in the four crash
tests. There are no SUVs that get five stars in the rollover rating, but
this is to be expected. All things being equal, taller vehicles will
rollover sooner than lower vehicles - simple physics. Despite this, there
are many SUVs with four star rollover ratings and actually the majority of
cars also have four star rollover ratings (see
http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/ and look for yourself).

> There are many cars that get 5 stars in all 5 categories, but NO SUVS
> EVER DO.

Define "many." The majority of cars don't get five stars in the four crash
test and in the rollover rating. So although there are no SUVs with 5 stars
in all the NHTSA rating categories, there are not that many cars that do so
either. In fact out of 243 2008 passenger cars listed in the NHTSA database
there are only two 2008 passenger cars that get five five star ratings:

2008 Acura RL 4-DR. w/SAB
2008 Lincoln Town Car 4-DR. w/SAB

> Here's just one of the dozens of cars that got 25 out of 25 stars in
> the crash tests.

I looked at 2008 Models, and there were only the two I mentioned above.

> http://tinyurl.com/2wawr8

Your link does not work. It takes me to the same NHTSA site (safercar.org,
but says "Sorry, this feature is currently unavailable"). Perhaps you were
sending me to the comparison chart that shows that most cars only get four
stars in the rollover rating?

> Can any of the so called SAFE SUV owners even find ONE SUV that has 25
> out of 25 stars in the NHTSA crash test ratings?

No vehicle has 25 out of 25 stars in NHTSA "CRASH" test ratings, since there
are only four "CRASH" test ratings. Many SUVs have 24 out of 25 stars in the
four crash test ratings plus the rollover rating. Most cars don't have as
many as 24 out of 25 stars in these ratings.

It is fine with me that you don't like SUVs. Many people don't. Don't buy
one. But you should miss state facts in an effort to paint a false picture.
Whether you like it or not, your chances of being injured in an average SUV
or less than your chances of being injured in an average car (by average, I
don't mean an average Porsche, Lexus, or Mercedes).

Ed