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Secrets of FFB



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 22nd 11, 12:18 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
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Posts: 253
Default Secrets of FFB

For a long time I am searching for the correct way to setup FFB, and
finaly I got it. To set things rightly, I first have set my FOV correctly,
the hight of screen correctly, and latency (it turned out that this wasn't
necessary) correctly. I determined the latency very low, at 0.000715 in
iRacing (the default is 0.050000).
So, what is the secret. FFB is actually the play between Spring,
Damper, and the strength of your hand (it looks like). Centering Spring
(unchecked) has to be at the same value as the Overall setting. You leave
the Damper and Spring at 100%. Now, when you rise Overal/Centering Spring
too high, you feel too much damper. Lets say you start with both at 150%.
Then you go lower by 5%, and you will still feel too much damper. Then
suddenly, you start to feel too much spring. This change happens at my rig
between 130% and 125%. At 130% I feel damper, at 125% I feel spring. The
correct setting on my rig (neither damper, nor spring) is 127%, so I have
settings 127/100/100/127.
The VERY good news (actually, excellent news) is that latency
doesn't affect the controlability of such set FFB. In fact, although I
CLEARLY feel *a lot* of latency at iRacing's default latency setting
(cockpitLookDeadZone = 0.050000, in app.ini file), car is actually MORE
controlable with that latency than with low latency (0.000715). With the
default latency going over curbs is real delight, when you overshoot a
corner there are no bigger problems (car behaves like a real car), and in
other tricky situations it is actually BETTER to have the iRacing's default
latency settings (after all, cars also have latency, so what, as long as it
is controlable). My times are still close to my personal bests even with
high latency, although with only few laps driven.
I still didn't try with vsync on (I had enough of testing for
today), but it would be excellent if this works with it, becaue 3D things
use vsync.
I must say that I have pretty well set FOV and hight of screen (I
set it with the precission of 0.005%, so pretty well), so I have no problems
regarding this (which you might have when trying this).

Mario

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  #2  
Old August 4th 11, 04:06 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Pat Dotson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Secrets of FFB

Against my better judgement...

1) How can you confirm that you aren't clipping the FFB forces? How
do you go about setting your in-car FFB strength so that you don't
clip?

2) What does FOV have to do with FFB? Obviously FFB latency can cause
an issue, but FOV seems unrelated. What do you mean by setting FOV
"correctly"?

3) What does the setting "(cockpitLookDeadZone = 0.050000, in app.ini
file)" have to do with latency?

Maybe you can get some better responses by posting this information on
the iRacing forums?


On Jul 22, 7:18*am, "Mario Petrinovic" >
wrote:
> * * * * For a long time I am searching for the correct way to setup FFB, and
> finaly I got it. To set things rightly, I first have set my FOV correctly,
> the hight of screen correctly, and latency (it turned out that this wasn't
> necessary) correctly. I determined the latency very low, at 0.000715 in
> iRacing (the default is 0.050000).
> * * * * *So, what is the secret. FFB is actually the play between Spring,
> Damper, and the strength of your hand (it looks like). Centering Spring
> (unchecked) has to be at the same value as the Overall setting. You leave
> the Damper and Spring at 100%. Now, when you rise Overal/Centering Spring
> too high, you feel too much damper. Lets say you start with both at 150%.
> Then you go lower by 5%, and you will still feel too much damper. Then
> suddenly, you start to feel too much spring. This change happens at my rig
> between 130% and 125%. At 130% I feel damper, at 125% I feel spring. The
> correct setting on my rig (neither damper, nor spring) is 127%, so I have
> settings 127/100/100/127.
> * * * * The VERY good news (actually, excellent news) is that latency
> doesn't affect the controlability of such set FFB. In fact, although I
> CLEARLY feel *a lot* of latency at iRacing's default latency setting
> (cockpitLookDeadZone = 0.050000, in app.ini file), car is actually MORE
> controlable with that latency than with low latency (0.000715). With the
> default latency going over curbs is real delight, when you overshoot a
> corner there are no bigger problems (car behaves like a real car), and in
> other tricky situations it is actually BETTER to have the iRacing's default
> latency settings (after all, cars also have latency, so what, as long as it
> is controlable). My times are still close to my personal bests even with
> high latency, although with only few laps driven.
> * * * * I still didn't try with vsync on (I had enough of testing for
> today), but it would be excellent if this works with it, becaue 3D things
> use vsync.
> * * * * I must say that I have pretty well set FOV and hight of screen (I
> set it with the precission of 0.005%, so pretty well), so I have no problems
> regarding this (which you might have when trying this).
>
> * * * * Mario


  #3  
Old August 4th 11, 06:10 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default Secrets of FFB

Pat Dotson:
Against my better judgement...

1) How can you confirm that you aren't clipping the FFB forces? How
do you go about setting your in-car FFB strength so that you don't
clip?

2) What does FOV have to do with FFB? Obviously FFB latency can cause
an issue, but FOV seems unrelated. What do you mean by setting FOV
"correctly"?

3) What does the setting "(cockpitLookDeadZone = 0.050000, in app.ini
file)" have to do with latency?

Maybe you can get some better responses by posting this information on
the iRacing forums?
------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Clipping is a myth that was started by Ade Allen. His claim is
that in-game 20 is the max value, and that after this you have "clipping".
Clipping is EASY to detect, and I can easily detect any clipping. If you
knew what clipping is (and absolutely everybody, including you, is spreading
around that clipping myth), you would never ask that question. Why? Because
clipping occures at THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE force. If you can detect anything
in FFB, you can detect clipping.
Clipping looks like this, while other forces rise and diminish
steadily, clipping rise to the highest possible value, and then ABRUBTLY
stops, which is felt like a hammer hitting something (VERY EASY to detect).
Clipping occures at bamps, which are special cases, so you even have in
app.ini special video adjustment for those cases. Clipping DOESN'T occure
for normal forces, just for bumps, and bumps destabilize car anyway, so
clipping occurance actually DOESN'T affect your driving in any special way
(bumps affect your driving this way or that way, so it isn't important if
clipping occures during this). The one who started this clipping myth never
actually understood what clipping does for FFB.
2) It isn't FOV only. To my surprise, FOV affects the least of all
graphycal adjustments. The thing that affects FFB the most is screen hight
adjustment. iRacing recently introduced hight adjustment, which isn't nearly
as precise as should be. It is precie to 0.5% screen hight, while it should
be precise to 0.005% (yes, three decimals). Thankfully we can get this
precission through app.ini file. Yes, I know that this is more precise than
1 pixel on HDTV, but pixels actually aren't important here, it is physics of
driving that is important.
Second thing that affects it, is cockpitLookDeadZone. What this has
to do with latency? Well, try it, and you will see. Here iRacing tried to be
close, and they did fairly good job, but this isn't enough, and is still far
away from what should be. You have to find it by yourself. I can help you
with guidance. First, of course, you have to remove all additional causes of
lateny (both in graphyc card driver, and in iRacing). You got to have no
limit fps, and such things (frankly, I still didn't research how different
graphyc setting affect this, but what I did is to diminish any additional
lag). When you do all this, then you will end up somewhere like me, I have
it at 0.062, and here three decimals are enough.
Regarding FOV, missjudging it by 1 or 2 isn't that bad, but for
really good adjustment we would need one decimal precission. So, one more
than we have now.
iRacing cut me off from forum. I don't seek for any response, I am
just posting things that I learned through my research, these aren't hard to
check, so any smart person can get good starting point reading my post. Who
isn't smart, well I cannot help him. If someone else posted those things
before, it would save me a lot of time in my life (I am not racing at all, I
am only researching this, and believe me, I do love to research things, but
more I like to race, and I cannot race until I finish this, which will be
soon). Things that I posted work beautifully on my system, and really can be
of a lot of help.

Mario

 




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