Questions about choosing the right clutch kit from Marlin Crawler

1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?

I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.

The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
* Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
* Seico clutch with steel springs
* Nachi pilot bearing
* Nachi throwout bearing
* Plastic spline alignment tool
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit>

They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
"torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCHT-411
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit>

They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCCL-221A
<https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter>

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?
2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

In article >, lid says...
>
> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
> plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
> 2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
> 3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?
>
> I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
> spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.
>
> The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
> * Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
> * Seico clutch with steel springs
> * Nachi pilot bearing
> * Nachi throwout bearing
> * Plastic spline alignment tool
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit>
>
> They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
> "torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
> * MCHT-411
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit>
>
> They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
> whatever that means to me in practice:
> * MCCL-221A
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter>
>
> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?
> 2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?
> 3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

My thoughts are the more foot pounds would do two things, make the clutch
harder to push, but at the same time make the clutch slip less likely.
Many clutch bolts are designed to stretch when tightened and should not
be reused. Teeth on the flywheel do not change, they are only for starter
motor to flywheel function.

--
RonNNN

He who is RonNNN said on Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:07:30 -0600:

> My thoughts are the more foot pounds would do two things, make the clutch
> harder to push, but at the same time make the clutch slip less likely.

I can't possibly disagree as it's a huge 1/3 more torque, but Marlin
Crawler said it's about the same pedal force. Makes no sense, right?

Then I asked what's the difference and they say the obvious, which really
doesn't tell me much practically, which is that the clutch plate is against
the flywheel with 1/3 more force.

What I don't get is what that means, practically, to me?

I guess if I habitually tow a trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range
that I'd want "more force" against the flywheel ... but what does it mean
for "normal driving".

What's the tradeoff?

> Many clutch bolts are designed to stretch when tightened and should not
> be reused. Teeth on the flywheel do not change, they are only for starter
> motor to flywheel function.

I think I'll get the bolt kit and I won't change the flywheel teeth.
I can't imagine why they even offer that.

On 14/11/2017 4:30 PM, harry newton wrote:
> He who is RonNNN said on Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:07:30 -0600:
>
>> My thoughts are the more foot pounds would do two things, make the
>> clutch harder to push, but at the same time make the clutch slip less
>> likely.
>
> I can't possibly disagree as it's a huge 1/3 more torque, but Marlin
> Crawler said it's about the same pedal force. Makes no sense, right?

It's the way diaphragm plate clutches work.
>
> Then I asked what's the difference and they say the obvious, which really
> doesn't tell me much practically, which is that the clutch plate is against
> the flywheel with 1/3 more force.
>
> What I don't get is what that means, practically, to me?
>
> I guess if I habitually tow a trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range
> that I'd want "more force" against the flywheel ... but what does it mean
> for "normal driving".
>
> What's the tradeoff?
>
>> Many clutch bolts are designed to stretch when tightened and should
>> not be reused. Teeth on the flywheel do not change, they are only for
>> starter motor to flywheel function.
>
> I think I'll get the bolt kit and I won't change the flywheel teeth.
> I can't imagine why they even offer that.



--

Xeno

> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?

A stiffer feeling clutch. Probably no difference in life.

> 2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?

I would do it. I'd replace the throwout bearing and anything else in
the bell end that looks the slightest bit worn. Better to change it now
while you have it apart than have to change it later when it's not. My
inclination is also to clean everything out with naptha and to repack the
new bearing with mobil 1 grease.

> 3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

You would do that if you wanted to use a different starter. Maybe the starter
for your model is discontinued. Maybe you have a box of cheap starters with
slightly different teeth. I have had to do it before when I could not get a
starter with the correct bendix.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

He who is Scott Dorsey said on 14 Nov 2017 10:14:44 -0500:

>> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?
>
> A stiffer feeling clutch. Probably no difference in life.

I hate when I don't understand simple things.

I just called Marlin Crawler at +1-559-252-7295 and spoke to Brendan, who,
shockingly, couldn't answer my question of what difference a 900 pound
stock pressure plate would make with respect to a 1200 pound clutch
pressure plate in actual driving.

Since an engine only develops around 300 foot pounds of torque, the
flywheel to clutch friction surface area has to take those 300 foot pounds,
so I asked him if he could measure the flywheel and clutch but he said he
couldn't (which is fair enough) since the web site doesn't say what the
diameters are.

When I asked Brendan why they even sell a 1200 pounder, he mentioned that
they have bigger tires than stock, which is fine - but Brendan couldn't
explain why that matters.

So, I really don't understand what 1200 pounds does for ANYONE.
Clearly my application doesn't need it (which all of you said).

But, what does 900-to-1200 pounds do for ANY application when the engine
can't develop more than 300 foot pounds of torque in the first place?

"harry newton" > wrote in message
news
> He who is Scott Dorsey said on 14 Nov 2017 10:14:44 -0500:
>
>>> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200
>>> pound pressure plate?
>>
>> A stiffer feeling clutch. Probably no difference in
>> life.
>
> I hate when I don't understand simple things.
>
> I just called Marlin Crawler at +1-559-252-7295 and spoke
> to Brendan, who,
> shockingly, couldn't answer my question of what difference
> a 900 pound
> stock pressure plate would make with respect to a 1200
> pound clutch
> pressure plate in actual driving.
>
> Since an engine only develops around 300 foot pounds of
> torque, the
> flywheel to clutch friction surface area has to take those
> 300 foot pounds,
> so I asked him if he could measure the flywheel and clutch
> but he said he
> couldn't (which is fair enough) since the web site doesn't
> say what the
> diameters are.
>
> When I asked Brendan why they even sell a 1200 pounder, he
> mentioned that
> they have bigger tires than stock, which is fine - but
> Brendan couldn't
> explain why that matters.
>
> So, I really don't understand what 1200 pounds does for
> ANYONE.
> Clearly my application doesn't need it (which all of you
> said).
>
> But, what does 900-to-1200 pounds do for ANY application
> when the engine
> can't develop more than 300 foot pounds of torque in the
> first place?

The 300 foot pounds of torque is the rotational power of the
engine.
The 1200 pounds of the pressure plate is the clamping
pressure, not
rotational power. This increase in clamping pressure raises
the friction
slip point. They are not related.

Phil Kangas > wrote:
>The 300 foot pounds of torque is the rotational power of the
>engine.
>The 1200 pounds of the pressure plate is the clamping
>pressure, not
>rotational power. This increase in clamping pressure raises
>the friction
>slip point. They are not related.

It not only raises the friction slip point, but narrows it as well. So if
you're racing and your goal is to pop the clutch as quickly as possible, and
you have the pedal depressed just barely past the friction point, the stiffer
clutch will make for a faster break off the line without riding it at idle.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 14/11/2017 11:36 AM, harry newton wrote:
> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
> plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
> 2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
> 3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?
>
> I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
> spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.
> The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
> * Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
> * Seico clutch with steel springs
> * Nachi pilot bearing
> * Nachi throwout bearing
> * Plastic spline alignment tool
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit>
>
>
> They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
> "torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
> * MCHT-411
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit>
>
They may be of a higher grade than the originals. After all, the
pressure on them would be higher with the stronger pressure plate.
>
> They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
> whatever that means to me in practice:
> * MCCL-221A
> <https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter>

Different applications, different starters. It would be something you
would want to check to make sure you get the correct tooth spacing for
your application.
>
> 1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?

300 pound extra clamping pressure on the clutch plate. Ergo, reduced
likelihood of slippage under extreme conditions.

> 2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?

Normally no but when installing heavier duty components I would highly
recommend it.

> 3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

No because it will no longer match your starter pinion. Measure and
purchase the correct spacing for your own application.


--

Xeno

He who is Xeno said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:35:55 +1100:

> 300 pound extra clamping pressure on the clutch plate. Ergo, reduced
> likelihood of slippage under extreme conditions.

There must be a tradeoff, simply because there always is a tradeoff.

I get the 1/3 greater clamping, so, in *extreme* loads, like towing a
trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range, the 1200 pound should slip
less.

What happens under normal loads?
Nothing different?