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Consider buying American!



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 13th 08, 10:26 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Dave Plowman (News)
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Posts: 1,533
Default Consider buying American!

In article >,
Gordon McGrew > wrote:
> >American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
> >next coffee break is than making quality cars.


> It's not the union worker's fault. You could hire a team of Formula 1
> mechanics to disassemble and reassemble a Detroit 3 car and it would
> still be a piece of crap.


Yup. It's nice to have a fall guy though. Saves approaching the real
problems. Since I'm reading this on a BMW group the OP might like to
ponder why BMW recognises unions but manages to be one of the most
profitable car makers world wide.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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  #12  
Old February 13th 08, 04:19 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
M.M.
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Posts: 139
Default Consider buying American!

An interesting book about U.S. vs. Japanese car makers is "The
Reckoning" by David Halberstam. It compares Nissan and Ford but is
relevant to the others as well. One of the main themes is that U.S. car
makers are run mostly by bean counters looking at the short term bottom
line whereas Japanese companies are run by engineers and manufacturing
people who are truly 'car people' and more concerned with a quality
product. It was written in the mid 80's but is still applicable today.
An interesting read...
  #13  
Old February 13th 08, 04:37 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
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Posts: 3,914
Default Consider buying American!

M.M. > wrote:
>An interesting book about U.S. vs. Japanese car makers is "The
>Reckoning" by David Halberstam. It compares Nissan and Ford but is
>relevant to the others as well. One of the main themes is that U.S. car
>makers are run mostly by bean counters looking at the short term bottom
>line whereas Japanese companies are run by engineers and manufacturing
>people who are truly 'car people' and more concerned with a quality
>product. It was written in the mid 80's but is still applicable today.
>An interesting read...


It is less and less applicable these days, as Japanese car makers are
falling into the same traps that destroyed American car makers and are
increasingly becoming concerned with short term profits rather than the
end product. It is very disturbing. There are an increasing number of
MBAs running Japanese car companies, and that's a bad sign.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #14  
Old February 13th 08, 04:38 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Dodgy
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Posts: 119
Default Consider buying American!

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:04:30 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
> waffled on about something:

>
>"still just me" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:38:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> When American auto makers start turning out a quality product at
>>>> a competitive price I'll take a look at them.

>>
>> Geez, I some people want everything. Just buy American, fill it with
>> $40b Exxon gas, and stop ur whining! Don't you understand that there
>> are CEO salaries at stake here?
>>
>> On a lighter note, when GM Management gets a friggin clue they might
>> be able to make some money. Don't expect it in the foreseeable future.
>> They've only made it this far due to inertia.
>>
>>>Thing I've never understood is why the American cars we get in the UK - at
>>>a far higher price than in the US - have such very poor interiors. Cheap
>>>plastics etc. After all UK (Euro) Fords and Vauxhalls are ok.

>>
>> I though Vauxhall was a GM brand now (?)

>
>Yes that's the odd thing - Ford and GM actually make some quite good cars in
>Europe these days, and to be fair many EU marques had horrifying reputations
>a generation ago: -
>
>Citroen - over complex, unrepairable.
>Fiat - rust
>BL - everything
>Skoda - "the worst new cars sold in Britain - Car Magazine"
>etc.


Errrrr... Have you ever fiddled with a Citroen C6? Some things haven't
changed!

D0d6y.
--
MUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES
  #15  
Old February 13th 08, 04:52 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
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Posts: 3,914
Default Consider buying American!

Dave Plowman (News) > wrote:
>
>It's not possible for a country like the US to compete *at all* in the
>world wide economy if you think the workforce wage cost is the only
>important factor. You simply couldn't pay anyone as little as a Chinese
>labourer as they couldn't even afford to buy food at US prices. Or
>accommodation. Etc.


It's hell at the bottom of the market. You don't want to be competing
solely on price, because no matter how cheap and lousy you can make a
product, someone else can make it worse for less.

The only way American companies (and Europeans companies for that matter)
can compete in a global market is on quality. You have to be able to sell
a better product.

For the most part, the American car manufacturers are falling down on the
job when it comes to selling a better product. That's not because of the
workers, but they're the ones that are having to deal with the consequences.

>Thing I've never understood is why the American cars we get in the UK - at
>a far higher price than in the US - have such very poor interiors. Cheap
>plastics etc. After all UK (Euro) Fords and Vauxhalls are ok.


Because that's what Americans are willing to accept, so that's what the
manufacturers give us. But then, I miss British cars with wooden dashboards.... --scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #16  
Old February 13th 08, 08:42 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
M.M.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 139
Default Consider buying American!

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> It is less and less applicable these days, as Japanese car makers are
> falling into the same traps that destroyed American car makers and are
> increasingly becoming concerned with short term profits rather than the
> end product. It is very disturbing. There are an increasing number of
> MBAs running Japanese car companies, and that's a bad sign.
> --scott


Yeah, I'm afraid you're right, looking at some of the new stuff from
Honda and Toyota. Maybe it's the Korean's turn...or the Chinese...
  #17  
Old February 14th 08, 01:18 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
dizzy
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Posts: 570
Default Consider buying American!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Gordon McGrew > wrote:
>> >American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
>> >next coffee break is than making quality cars.

>
>> It's not the union worker's fault. You could hire a team of Formula 1
>> mechanics to disassemble and reassemble a Detroit 3 car and it would
>> still be a piece of crap.

>
>Yup. It's nice to have a fall guy though. Saves approaching the real
>problems. Since I'm reading this on a BMW group the OP might like to
>ponder why BMW recognises unions but manages to be one of the most
>profitable car makers world wide.


Because they stuck to their guns and designed cars right, instead of
making FWD crap?

  #18  
Old February 14th 08, 03:51 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Pszemol
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Posts: 400
Default Consider buying American!

> wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:54:55 GMT, still just me
> > wrote:
>
>>>I can't even use common fluids in the Honda. The antifreeze is 4-5
>>>times as much.

>>
>>I have difficulty believing that. Maybe your aged Ford uses the green
>>stuff on sale,

>
> I have never seen Honda antifreeze "on sale" or really for sale at all
> beyond the dealer. It is also half the strength. A gallon costs at
> least twice what a national brand costs and you need twice as much of
> it.


How often you need it?
Why do you make big fuss about $20 dollars spend once per 2 years?
  #19  
Old February 14th 08, 06:30 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
BaJoRi
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Posts: 10
Default Consider buying American!


"swllz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Tony Harding wrote:
>> tater wrote:
>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>>
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>>
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>>> car.
>>>>
>>>
>>> American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
>>> next coffee break is than making quality cars. They've negotiated
>>> themselves
>>> right out of jobs as the big auto makers cut back. It's not possible to
>>> do business that way and compete on a world wide economy.

>>
>>
>> It's hardly the workers' fault - Honda & Toyota employ American workers
>> and turn out quality vehicles. This is a management failing.

>
> It is very true. The top management in GM should be blamed. GM assemble
> line workers do not make much more than assemble line worker in TOYOTA.
> They just assemble what have been planed and designed by management. The
> top management in GM take home a huge salary and bouns compare to TOYOTA
> or HONDA top management.


What are the annual healthcare and retirement benefit costs for GM and Ford,
owing to the UAW contracts, as compared with Honda and Toyota? So to say
that those Japanese companies take care of their empoyees as well as the Big
Three is an outright lie.

  #20  
Old February 15th 08, 01:28 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Dean Dark
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Posts: 362
Default Consider buying American!

On 15 Feb 2008 00:04:39 GMT, "John Q. Public" > wrote:
>
>My soon-to-be-father-in-law is a Ford retiree. His health plan pays
>NOTHING for office visits.


Boo ****ing hoo. Pass the Kleenex.
--
Dan.
 




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