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Consider buying American!



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 12th 08, 06:33 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

BaJoRi wrote:
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> news:fmhsj.6463$Wr4.5418@trnddc05...
>> wrote:
>>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>> car.
>>>
>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>>
>>> Buick Lacrosse
>>> Buick Lucerne
>>> Cadillac CTS
>>> Cadillac CTS-V
>>> Cadillac DTS
>>> Chevrolet HHR
>>> Chevrolet Impala
>>> Chevrolet Malibu
>>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>>> Chrysler 300
>>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>> Dodge Durango
>>> Ford Five Hundred
>>> Ford Focus
>>> Ford Freestyle
>>> Ford Fusion
>>> GMC Yukon
>>> Jeep Liberty
>>> Lincoln MKZ
>>> Lincoln Town Car
>>> Mercury Milan
>>> Mercury Montego
>>> Pontiac G6
>>> Pontiac Torrent

>>
>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>>
>> What the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico?
>>
>> Shouldn't the Michigan 3 make their vehicles relevant to me rather
>> than the other way around?
>>
>> Jeff

>
> Where do the profits go? The profits for Japanese manufacturers, no
> matter where the car is built, go to Japan. It sucks revenue out of our
> economy.


The profits from the American subsidies of Honda and Toyota are taxed
the same way American companies are taxed, because, legally, they are
American companies.

Jeff
Ads
  #12  
Old February 12th 08, 06:57 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Tony Harding
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 245
Default Consider buying American!

BaJoRi wrote:
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> news:fmhsj.6463$Wr4.5418@trnddc05...
>> wrote:
>>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>> car.
>>>
>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>>
>>> Buick Lacrosse
>>> Buick Lucerne
>>> Cadillac CTS
>>> Cadillac CTS-V
>>> Cadillac DTS
>>> Chevrolet HHR
>>> Chevrolet Impala
>>> Chevrolet Malibu
>>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>>> Chrysler 300
>>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>> Dodge Durango
>>> Ford Five Hundred
>>> Ford Focus
>>> Ford Freestyle
>>> Ford Fusion
>>> GMC Yukon
>>> Jeep Liberty
>>> Lincoln MKZ
>>> Lincoln Town Car
>>> Mercury Milan
>>> Mercury Montego
>>> Pontiac G6
>>> Pontiac Torrent

>>
>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>>
>> What the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico?
>>
>> Shouldn't the Michigan 3 make their vehicles relevant to me rather
>> than the other way around?
>>
>> Jeff

>
> Where do the profits go? The profits for Japanese manufacturers, no
> matter where the car is built, go to Japan. It sucks revenue out of our
> economy.


Consumers are voting with their dollars, Detroit needs to change the way
it does business or die.
  #13  
Old February 12th 08, 06:59 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Bob[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Consider buying American!

>> wrote:
>>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>> car.


Cross posting removed and against my better judgment I just have to
comment on this weird logic. What this is saying in effect is if they
were to be making money instead of losing money we should then STOP
buying from them.

Kind of counterintuitive to the "American" way, don't reward success but
penalize profit, hmmmmm.... kind of "un"American in my view.

It will be interesting to see what their executive incentive's are this
year.

Cheers, Bob
  #14  
Old February 12th 08, 07:17 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Elle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Consider buying American!

"BaJoRi" > wrote
> Where do the profits go? The profits for Japanese
> manufacturers, no matter where the car is built, go to
> Japan. It sucks revenue out of our economy.

The profits are distributed among all involved in producing
the car. This includes Japanese executives (who surely spend
a lot of time spending money in the U.S.), American
employees of Honda and Toyota plants, and shareholders
around the world, who get stock dividends. Any profits
rolled back into the company serve all these folks, too.
Some of the profits also go to American dealerships. Honda
builds a great car, and American dealer franchise owners are
getting their share.


  #15  
Old February 12th 08, 07:40 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Bill[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default Consider buying American!


"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:fmhsj.6463$Wr4.5418@trnddc05...
> wrote:
> > GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
> > ever annual loss for a US automaker.
> >
> > The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
> > they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
> > car.


WHY? They've been bailed out once already.

> > Buick Lacrosse
> > Buick Lucerne
> > Cadillac CTS
> > Cadillac CTS-V
> > Cadillac DTS
> > Chevrolet HHR
> > Chevrolet Impala
> > Chevrolet Malibu
> > Chevrolet Tahoe
> > Chrysler 300
> > Chrysler PT Cruiser
> > Dodge Durango
> > Ford Five Hundred
> > Ford Focus
> > Ford Freestyle
> > Ford Fusion
> > GMC Yukon
> > Jeep Liberty
> > Lincoln MKZ
> > Lincoln Town Car
> > Mercury Milan
> > Mercury Montego
> > Pontiac G6
> > Pontiac Torrent


Are any of these exported anywhere else in the world? I think not... and
there's a reason for that.
For so long American car makers have made what they want us to have, not
what we wanted.
So screw 'em. They made the bed and in the process have alienated most of
their buyer base. And what's up with paying some exec (at Ford, I believe)
almost $15 million bonus for 4 months of work? WTF? There's part of the
problem.

Bill in Omaha


  #16  
Old February 12th 08, 08:15 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

wrote:
> On Feb 12, 8:46 am, wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American
>>>> car.
>>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>>> Buick Lacrosse
>>>> Buick Lucerne
>>>> Cadillac CTS
>>>> Cadillac CTS-V
>>>> Cadillac DTS
>>>> Chevrolet HHR
>>>> Chevrolet Impala
>>>> Chevrolet Malibu
>>>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>>>> Chrysler 300
>>>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>>> Dodge Durango
>>>> Ford Five Hundred
>>>> Ford Focus
>>>> Ford Freestyle
>>>> Ford Fusion
>>>> GMC Yukon
>>>> Jeep Liberty
>>>> Lincoln MKZ
>>>> Lincoln Town Car
>>>> Mercury Milan
>>>> Mercury Montego
>>>> Pontiac G6
>>>> Pontiac Torrent
>>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?

>> Toyota and Honda assemble cars all over the world, but the profits go
>> back to Japan.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> Really! I would think the profits go first to the US subsidiaries to
> pay for taxes, salaries, helathcare, workers's comp, plant
> modernization, worker education. U.S. subsidiaries of Japanese auto
> makers use the same ratio of pay differences between a manager and his/
> her direct reports as they do in Japan.
>
> Japan make a car that goes 250,000 miles without major repairs, runs
> like brand new till it falls apart or we just give it to someone.
> Korea, somewhat new to auto making, can do the same. But the US car
> companies make ****. Answer that for me. I have a few ideas but you
> can go first.


Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
cars, too.

jeff


> People are also dumping VWs for the same reasons Americans are dumping
> U.S. cars.

  #17  
Old February 12th 08, 08:20 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
R. Mark Clayton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 778
Default Consider buying American!

Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in the
USA.

The Buick was passable, but with very sloppy suspension etc.

The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
certainly the worst new one.

At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
were laughable in comparison.

The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i was
built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in almost
every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the Chrysler PT
Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor performance, poor trim,
poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You would be better off in a ten
year old base entry model 3 series than a new one of these.


Incidentally GM probably make the best "mass market" cars in Europe.



A man walks into a car spares shop and asks if they have a hub cap for a
1995 Lada - "sounds like a fair swap" says the chap behind the counter.


"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:fmhsj.6463$Wr4.5418@trnddc05...
> wrote:
>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>
>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>
>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>> car.
>>
>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>> Buick Lacrosse
>> Buick Lucerne
>> Cadillac CTS
>> Cadillac CTS-V
>> Cadillac DTS
>> Chevrolet HHR
>> Chevrolet Impala
>> Chevrolet Malibu
>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>> Chrysler 300
>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>> Dodge Durango
>> Ford Five Hundred
>> Ford Focus
>> Ford Freestyle
>> Ford Fusion
>> GMC Yukon
>> Jeep Liberty
>> Lincoln MKZ
>> Lincoln Town Car
>> Mercury Milan
>> Mercury Montego
>> Pontiac G6
>> Pontiac Torrent

>
> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>
> What the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico?
>
> Shouldn't the Michigan 3 make their vehicles relevant to me rather than
> the other way around?
>
> Jeff



  #18  
Old February 12th 08, 10:51 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in the
> USA.
>
> The Buick was passable, but with very sloppy suspension etc.
>
> The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
> certainly the worst new one.
>
> At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
> was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
> were laughable in comparison.
>
> The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i was
> built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in almost
> every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the Chrysler PT
> Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor performance, poor trim,
> poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You would be better off in a ten
> year old base entry model 3 series than a new one of these.


A BMW 735i probably cost about 3 times as much money as most American
cars of the era, too.

You get what you pay for, especially considering the high cost of
maintaining such a vehicle.

jeff

Jeff
  #19  
Old February 12th 08, 10:52 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff >
> wrote:
>
>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>> cars, too.

>
> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>
> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>
> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> odds are so incredibly against that?


The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
record for the more recent cars is good.

Jeff
  #20  
Old February 13th 08, 12:04 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

Michael Yeager wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:52:26 GMT, Jeff >
> wrote:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>>>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>>>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>>>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>>>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>>>> cars, too.
>>> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
>>> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>>>
>>> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>>>
>>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
>>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
>>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
>>> odds are so incredibly against that?

>> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
>> record for the more recent cars is good.
>>
>> Jeff

>
> Ford is recalling a ****LOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
> over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
> they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...


And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before.

Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes.

Jeff
 




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