A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Saturn
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 25th 08, 10:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Roger E
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.

Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading for
NO ppm:

Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound
to fail on it.

I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every 2
years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result for
NOx was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not been a
problem.

The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...

1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
replace it with a new one 4 years ago.

2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2
months before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system
cleaners over this year

3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe,
so the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before
and after the cat though.

4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or iridium
plugs.

5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
clean the throttle body valve this summer.

6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving.
This past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF
transmission fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this
over concentrated flush chemicals, never had problems.

7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail
harness to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running
problems with my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of
town when this happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail
harness was replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008
Emissions Test was performed at the same shop immediately after the repair.

Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
Thanks, Roger

Three Emissions Tests results...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results: Nov 2008

HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200, pass

CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1, pass

NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
(not done)

@ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
@ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid

Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results: 2006

HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200, pass

CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1, pass

NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
(not done)

@ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
@ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid

Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results: 2004

HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200, pass

CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1, pass

NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
(not done)

@ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
@ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid

Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ads
  #2  
Old November 26th 08, 12:23 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Bob Shuman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx


Roger,

I have a few questions and a comment:

Is the Service Engine Light lit? (You do not say...)
Why do you think "the EGR valve is fine?"
How many total miles on the engine/vehicle?
How many miles in the 4+ years since the old EGR was replaced?
When you replaced the EGR valve, did you also thoroughly clean the intake
manifold port?

Based on the symptoms you describe, I'd personally suspect the EGR is not
operating correctly (if I recall correctly, the '95 was still vacuum
operated so look at the rubber hose and diaphragm for small cracks) or the
EGR passage in the manifold is partially blocked. By the way, 4 years and
50K miles is about all you get from the EGR, especially if the engine burns
a good deal of oil.

Good luck.

Bob


"Roger E" > wrote in message
...
> 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx
>
> Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.
>
> Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading for
> NO ppm:
>
> Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound to
> fail on it.
>
> I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every 2
> years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result for NOx
> was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not been a
> problem.
>
> The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...
>
> 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
> replace it with a new one 4 years ago.
>
> 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2 months
> before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system cleaners over
> this year
>
> 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
> possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
> readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe, so
> the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before and
> after the cat though.
>
> 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
> properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
> RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or iridium
> plugs.
>
> 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
> clean the throttle body valve this summer.
>
> 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
> well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving. This
> past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF transmission
> fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this over concentrated
> flush chemicals, never had problems.
>
> 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
> September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
> belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail harness
> to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running problems with
> my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of town when this
> happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail harness was
> replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008 Emissions Test
> was performed at the same shop immediately after the repair.
>
> Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
> Thanks, Roger
>
> Three Emissions Tests results...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Results: Nov 2008
>
> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200, pass
>
> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1,
> pass
>
> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> (not done)
>
> @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
> @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid
>
> Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Results: 2006
>
> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200, pass
>
> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1,
> pass
>
> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, - (not
> done)
>
> @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
> @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid
>
> Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Results: 2004
>
> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200, pass
>
> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1,
> pass
>
> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, - (not
> done)
>
> @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
> @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid
>
> Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>



  #3  
Old November 28th 08, 01:53 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Roger E
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

Hi Bob
Thanks for your reply.

No service light is not on.

The original EGR valve gave me trouble back in 2004, not before then,
and lasted for about 9 years. What happened then was my car was stalling
when dropping the RPM on the engine, example decelerating and coming to
a stop. I had removed that EGR valve and cleaned it with carb cleaner...
the benefit lasted a couple of weeks then it began to stall again. I
replaced the EGR in Oct 2004 and have not had the same trouble since then.

Total mileage of my Saturn: 228,800 Km / 142,000 mil. (mostly highway)

Total mileage of my Saturn since the old EGR was replaced: 81,700 Km /
50,700 mil. (done @ 147,000 Km).

I cleaned the base where the EGR valve mounts, the breather hose or
crankcase vent hose, the throttle bore and plate, the hose to the PCV
valve and replaced the PCV valve. I did not take apart the intake
manifold. Do you mean to get at the gasket too? As I understand it, that
is a big job..... here is a link to a doc as I understand that you mean
by accessing this port. Am I right?

http://wiki.rockauto.com/2000%20SATU...d%20Gasket_0_0

The vacuum hoses and PCV grommet are in good shape.

Yes, this car does seem to burn alot of oil.... 1L every 2000 Km or so.

I'll remove the EGR valve to examine it this weekend and clean it w/
carb cleaner.... but it seems to be operating well at present.

Thanks, Roger


Bob Shuman wrote:
> Roger,
>
> I have a few questions and a comment:
>
> Is the Service Engine Light lit? (You do not say...)
> Why do you think "the EGR valve is fine?"
> How many total miles on the engine/vehicle?
> How many miles in the 4+ years since the old EGR was replaced?
> When you replaced the EGR valve, did you also thoroughly clean the intake
> manifold port?
>
> Based on the symptoms you describe, I'd personally suspect the EGR is not
> operating correctly (if I recall correctly, the '95 was still vacuum
> operated so look at the rubber hose and diaphragm for small cracks) or the
> EGR passage in the manifold is partially blocked. By the way, 4 years and
> 50K miles is about all you get from the EGR, especially if the engine burns
> a good deal of oil.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Roger E" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx
>>
>> Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.
>>
>> Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading for
>> NO ppm:
>>
>> Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound to
>> fail on it.
>>
>> I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every 2
>> years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result for NOx
>> was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not been a
>> problem.
>>
>> The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...
>>
>> 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
>> replace it with a new one 4 years ago.
>>
>> 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2 months
>> before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system cleaners over
>> this year
>>
>> 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
>> possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
>> readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe, so
>> the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before and
>> after the cat though.
>>
>> 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
>> properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
>> RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or iridium
>> plugs.
>>
>> 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
>> clean the throttle body valve this summer.
>>
>> 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
>> well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving. This
>> past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF transmission
>> fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this over concentrated
>> flush chemicals, never had problems.
>>
>> 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
>> September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
>> belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail harness
>> to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running problems with
>> my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of town when this
>> happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail harness was
>> replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008 Emissions Test
>> was performed at the same shop immediately after the repair.
>>
>> Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
>> Thanks, Roger
>>
>> Three Emissions Tests results...
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Results: Nov 2008
>>
>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200, pass
>>
>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1,
>> pass
>>
>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>> (not done)
>>
>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
>> @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid
>>
>> Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Results: 2006
>>
>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200, pass
>>
>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1,
>> pass
>>
>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, - (not
>> done)
>>
>> @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
>> @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid
>>
>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Results: 2004
>>
>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200, pass
>>
>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1,
>> pass
>>
>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, - (not
>> done)
>>
>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
>> @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid
>>
>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>

>
>

  #4  
Old November 28th 08, 07:20 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
JimR[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

You've got to stop using Nitro while you are running it at the Funny Car
Circuit :-)

Sorry I can't offer any real help. I just went out to check the
emissions inspection reports on my 97 SL2, but for at least the last 4
years, they have not listed actual readings (here in CT), only pass/fail.

Good luck with yours.

JimR

Roger E wrote:
> 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx
>
> Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.
>
> Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading for
> NO ppm:
>
> Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound
> to fail on it.
>
> I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every 2
> years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result for
> NOx was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not been a
> problem.
>
> The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...
>
> 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
> replace it with a new one 4 years ago.
>
> 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2
> months before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system
> cleaners over this year
>
> 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
> possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
> readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe,
> so the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before
> and after the cat though.
>
> 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
> properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
> RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or iridium
> plugs.
>
> 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
> clean the throttle body valve this summer.
>
> 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
> well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving.
> This past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF
> transmission fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this
> over concentrated flush chemicals, never had problems.
>
> 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
> September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
> belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail
> harness to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running
> problems with my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of
> town when this happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail
> harness was replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008
> Emissions Test was performed at the same shop immediately after the repair.
>
> Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
> Thanks, Roger
>
> Three Emissions Tests results...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Results: Nov 2008
>
> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200, pass
>
> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1, pass
>
> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> (not done)
>
> @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
> @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid
>
> Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Results: 2006
>
> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200, pass
>
> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1, pass
>
> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> (not done)
>
> @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
> @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid
>
> Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Results: 2004
>
> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200, pass
>
> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1, pass
>
> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> (not done)
>
> @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
> @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid
>
> Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

  #5  
Old November 29th 08, 03:40 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
navaidstech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

On Nov 25, 6:23 pm, "Bob Shuman" > wrote:
> Roger,
>
> I have a few questions and a comment:
>
> Is the Service Engine Light lit? (You do not say...)
> Why do you think "the EGR valve is fine?"
> How many total miles on the engine/vehicle?
> How many miles in the 4+ years since the old EGR was replaced?
> When you replaced the EGR valve, did you also thoroughly clean the intake
> manifold port?
>
> Based on the symptoms you describe, I'd personally suspect the EGR is not
> operating correctly (if I recall correctly, the '95 was still vacuum
> operated so look at the rubber hose and diaphragm for small cracks) or the
> EGR passage in the manifold is partially blocked. By the way, 4 years and
> 50K miles is about all you get from the EGR, especially if the engine burns
> a good deal of oil.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Bob
>


Are you referring to a vacuum type EGR?
Mine is 17 years old with 330k miles on it and still gives me good
emission tests (except for the last one, it was a close pass - it
might fail the next one in a couple of months)

Alex

  #6  
Old December 1st 08, 11:11 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Roger E
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

Hi Bob

I removed my EGR valve on the weekend. There was a fair amount of carbon
in it, however the valve spring was not sticking. I did clean out the
valve holes and spring the best I could with carb cleaner/solvent. The
car still runs ok. I'm going to replace the 20 month old RC12YC Champion
spark plugs that are currently in the engine with RC14YC's, a spark plug
with a higher heat range.

I'm not sure if the problem is with the catalytic converter......
exhaust is flowing, no plugs in the pipe, and CO and HC test results
were always good. Maybe I should do another retest first, see if
cleaning the EGR valve, changing the spark plugs, and using 91 octane
gas works?

Thanks, Roger


Roger E wrote:
> Hi Bob
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> No service light is not on.
>
> The original EGR valve gave me trouble back in 2004, not before then,
> and lasted for about 9 years. What happened then was my car was stalling
> when dropping the RPM on the engine, example decelerating and coming to
> a stop. I had removed that EGR valve and cleaned it with carb cleaner...
> the benefit lasted a couple of weeks then it began to stall again. I
> replaced the EGR in Oct 2004 and have not had the same trouble since then.
>
> Total mileage of my Saturn: 228,800 Km / 142,000 mil. (mostly highway)
>
> Total mileage of my Saturn since the old EGR was replaced: 81,700 Km /
> 50,700 mil. (done @ 147,000 Km).
>
> I cleaned the base where the EGR valve mounts, the breather hose or
> crankcase vent hose, the throttle bore and plate, the hose to the PCV
> valve and replaced the PCV valve. I did not take apart the intake
> manifold. Do you mean to get at the gasket too? As I understand it, that
> is a big job..... here is a link to a doc as I understand that you mean
> by accessing this port. Am I right?
>
> http://wiki.rockauto.com/2000%20SATU...d%20Gasket_0_0
>
>
> The vacuum hoses and PCV grommet are in good shape.
>
> Yes, this car does seem to burn alot of oil.... 1L every 2000 Km or so.
>
> I'll remove the EGR valve to examine it this weekend and clean it w/
> carb cleaner.... but it seems to be operating well at present.
>
> Thanks, Roger
>
>
> Bob Shuman wrote:
>> Roger,
>>
>> I have a few questions and a comment:
>>
>> Is the Service Engine Light lit? (You do not say...)
>> Why do you think "the EGR valve is fine?"
>> How many total miles on the engine/vehicle?
>> How many miles in the 4+ years since the old EGR was replaced?
>> When you replaced the EGR valve, did you also thoroughly clean the
>> intake manifold port?
>>
>> Based on the symptoms you describe, I'd personally suspect the EGR is
>> not operating correctly (if I recall correctly, the '95 was still
>> vacuum operated so look at the rubber hose and diaphragm for small
>> cracks) or the EGR passage in the manifold is partially blocked. By
>> the way, 4 years and 50K miles is about all you get from the EGR,
>> especially if the engine burns a good deal of oil.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> "Roger E" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx
>>>
>>> Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.
>>>
>>> Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading
>>> for NO ppm:
>>>
>>> Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are
>>> bound to fail on it.
>>>
>>> I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done
>>> every 2 years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the
>>> result for NOx was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements
>>> have not been a problem.
>>>
>>> The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...
>>>
>>> 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
>>> replace it with a new one 4 years ago.
>>>
>>> 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2
>>> months before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system
>>> cleaners over this year
>>>
>>> 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this
>>> is possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC
>>> and CO readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my
>>> tailpipe, so the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe
>>> pressure before and after the cat though.
>>>
>>> 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap
>>> them properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion
>>> brand RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or
>>> iridium plugs.
>>>
>>> 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I
>>> did clean the throttle body valve this summer.
>>>
>>> 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
>>> well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving.
>>> This past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF
>>> transmission fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this
>>> over concentrated flush chemicals, never had problems.
>>>
>>> 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
>>> September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my
>>> accessory belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The
>>> pigtail harness to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused
>>> running problems with my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was
>>> stranded out of town when this happened and took the car to a shop
>>> where this pigtail harness was replaced. Engine was running fine
>>> thereafter and this 2008 Emissions Test was performed at the same
>>> shop immediately after the repair.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
>>> Thanks, Roger
>>>
>>> Three Emissions Tests results...
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Results: Nov 2008
>>>
>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200,
>>> pass
>>>
>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit
>>> 1, pass
>>>
>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -,
>>> - (not done)
>>>
>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
>>> @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid
>>>
>>> Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Results: 2006
>>>
>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200, pass
>>>
>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit
>>> 1, pass
>>>
>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>> (not done)
>>>
>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
>>> @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid
>>>
>>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Results: 2004
>>>
>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200,
>>> pass
>>>
>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit
>>> 1, pass
>>>
>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>> (not done)
>>>
>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
>>> @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid
>>>
>>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

  #7  
Old December 2nd 08, 01:57 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Bob Shuman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

Roger,

It might be worth re-checking the NO emissions before you do any more work.
The blocked passages could have been the root issue here. When you had the
EGR out, did you also verify that the vacuum control was working properly
(since failure in the diaphragm and/or the vacuum hose are common for that
vintage)?

On the higher heat range plugs, I personally do not believe those are your
problem. I would make sure they are clean and gapped properly though since
the carbon you saw in the manifold from the oil consumption is likely also
on those plugs too.

On the high octane fuel, in my opinion this will not do anything to help you
since that year Saturn did not use computer advanced timing to allow you to
get any advantage from the higher octane. (If anything, it might even cause
the vehicle to run worse. At best, all you are doing is paying more for the
fuel.)

Good luck and let us know what you find is the problem.

Bob





"Roger E" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Bob
>
> I removed my EGR valve on the weekend. There was a fair amount of carbon
> in it, however the valve spring was not sticking. I did clean out the
> valve holes and spring the best I could with carb cleaner/solvent. The car
> still runs ok. I'm going to replace the 20 month old RC12YC Champion spark
> plugs that are currently in the engine with RC14YC's, a spark plug with a
> higher heat range.
>
> I'm not sure if the problem is with the catalytic converter...... exhaust
> is flowing, no plugs in the pipe, and CO and HC test results were always
> good. Maybe I should do another retest first, see if cleaning the EGR
> valve, changing the spark plugs, and using 91 octane gas works?
>
> Thanks, Roger
>
>
> Roger E wrote:
>> Hi Bob
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> No service light is not on.
>>
>> The original EGR valve gave me trouble back in 2004, not before then, and
>> lasted for about 9 years. What happened then was my car was stalling when
>> dropping the RPM on the engine, example decelerating and coming to a
>> stop. I had removed that EGR valve and cleaned it with carb cleaner...
>> the benefit lasted a couple of weeks then it began to stall again. I
>> replaced the EGR in Oct 2004 and have not had the same trouble since
>> then.
>>
>> Total mileage of my Saturn: 228,800 Km / 142,000 mil. (mostly highway)
>>
>> Total mileage of my Saturn since the old EGR was replaced: 81,700 Km /
>> 50,700 mil. (done @ 147,000 Km).
>>
>> I cleaned the base where the EGR valve mounts, the breather hose or
>> crankcase vent hose, the throttle bore and plate, the hose to the PCV
>> valve and replaced the PCV valve. I did not take apart the intake
>> manifold. Do you mean to get at the gasket too? As I understand it, that
>> is a big job..... here is a link to a doc as I understand that you mean
>> by accessing this port. Am I right?
>>
>> http://wiki.rockauto.com/2000%20SATU...d%20Gasket_0_0
>> The vacuum hoses and PCV grommet are in good shape.
>>
>> Yes, this car does seem to burn alot of oil.... 1L every 2000 Km or so.
>>
>> I'll remove the EGR valve to examine it this weekend and clean it w/ carb
>> cleaner.... but it seems to be operating well at present.
>>
>> Thanks, Roger
>>
>>
>> Bob Shuman wrote:
>>> Roger,
>>>
>>> I have a few questions and a comment:
>>>
>>> Is the Service Engine Light lit? (You do not say...)
>>> Why do you think "the EGR valve is fine?"
>>> How many total miles on the engine/vehicle?
>>> How many miles in the 4+ years since the old EGR was replaced?
>>> When you replaced the EGR valve, did you also thoroughly clean the
>>> intake manifold port?
>>>
>>> Based on the symptoms you describe, I'd personally suspect the EGR is
>>> not operating correctly (if I recall correctly, the '95 was still vacuum
>>> operated so look at the rubber hose and diaphragm for small cracks) or
>>> the EGR passage in the manifold is partially blocked. By the way, 4
>>> years and 50K miles is about all you get from the EGR, especially if the
>>> engine burns a good deal of oil.
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> "Roger E" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx
>>>>
>>>> Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.
>>>>
>>>> Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading
>>>> for NO ppm:
>>>>
>>>> Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound
>>>> to fail on it.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every
>>>> 2 years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result
>>>> for NOx was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not
>>>> been a problem.
>>>>
>>>> The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...
>>>>
>>>> 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
>>>> replace it with a new one 4 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2
>>>> months before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system
>>>> cleaners over this year
>>>>
>>>> 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
>>>> possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
>>>> readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe,
>>>> so the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before
>>>> and after the cat though.
>>>>
>>>> 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
>>>> properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
>>>> RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or iridium
>>>> plugs.
>>>>
>>>> 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
>>>> clean the throttle body valve this summer.
>>>>
>>>> 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
>>>> well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving.
>>>> This past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF
>>>> transmission fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this
>>>> over concentrated flush chemicals, never had problems.
>>>>
>>>> 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
>>>> September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
>>>> belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail
>>>> harness to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running
>>>> problems with my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of
>>>> town when this happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail
>>>> harness was replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008
>>>> Emissions Test was performed at the same shop immediately after the
>>>> repair.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
>>>> Thanks, Roger
>>>>
>>>> Three Emissions Tests results...
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Results: Nov 2008
>>>>
>>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200,
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1,
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>>> (not done)
>>>>
>>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
>>>> @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid
>>>>
>>>> Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Results: 2006
>>>>
>>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200,
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1,
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>>> (not done)
>>>>
>>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
>>>> @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid
>>>>
>>>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Results: 2004
>>>>
>>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200,
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1,
>>>> pass
>>>>
>>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>>> (not done)
>>>>
>>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
>>>> @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid
>>>>
>>>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>



  #8  
Old December 3rd 08, 04:41 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Roger[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

Thanks Bob
I did not check the vacuum control. How does one do that? I'll research
this... http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec97/egr.htm

Cheers, Roger

Bob Shuman wrote:
> Roger,
>
> It might be worth re-checking the NO emissions before you do any more work.
> The blocked passages could have been the root issue here. When you had the
> EGR out, did you also verify that the vacuum control was working properly
> (since failure in the diaphragm and/or the vacuum hose are common for that
> vintage)?
>
> On the higher heat range plugs, I personally do not believe those are your
> problem. I would make sure they are clean and gapped properly though since
> the carbon you saw in the manifold from the oil consumption is likely also
> on those plugs too.
>
> On the high octane fuel, in my opinion this will not do anything to help you
> since that year Saturn did not use computer advanced timing to allow you to
> get any advantage from the higher octane. (If anything, it might even cause
> the vehicle to run worse. At best, all you are doing is paying more for the
> fuel.)
>
> Good luck and let us know what you find is the problem.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> "Roger E" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi Bob
>>
>> I removed my EGR valve on the weekend. There was a fair amount of carbon
>> in it, however the valve spring was not sticking. I did clean out the
>> valve holes and spring the best I could with carb cleaner/solvent. The car
>> still runs ok. I'm going to replace the 20 month old RC12YC Champion spark
>> plugs that are currently in the engine with RC14YC's, a spark plug with a
>> higher heat range.
>>
>> I'm not sure if the problem is with the catalytic converter...... exhaust
>> is flowing, no plugs in the pipe, and CO and HC test results were always
>> good. Maybe I should do another retest first, see if cleaning the EGR
>> valve, changing the spark plugs, and using 91 octane gas works?
>>
>> Thanks, Roger
>>
>>
>> Roger E wrote:
>>> Hi Bob
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>
>>> No service light is not on.
>>>
>>> The original EGR valve gave me trouble back in 2004, not before then, and
>>> lasted for about 9 years. What happened then was my car was stalling when
>>> dropping the RPM on the engine, example decelerating and coming to a
>>> stop. I had removed that EGR valve and cleaned it with carb cleaner...
>>> the benefit lasted a couple of weeks then it began to stall again. I
>>> replaced the EGR in Oct 2004 and have not had the same trouble since
>>> then.
>>>
>>> Total mileage of my Saturn: 228,800 Km / 142,000 mil. (mostly highway)
>>>
>>> Total mileage of my Saturn since the old EGR was replaced: 81,700 Km /
>>> 50,700 mil. (done @ 147,000 Km).
>>>
>>> I cleaned the base where the EGR valve mounts, the breather hose or
>>> crankcase vent hose, the throttle bore and plate, the hose to the PCV
>>> valve and replaced the PCV valve. I did not take apart the intake
>>> manifold. Do you mean to get at the gasket too? As I understand it, that
>>> is a big job..... here is a link to a doc as I understand that you mean
>>> by accessing this port. Am I right?
>>>
>>> http://wiki.rockauto.com/2000%20SATU...d%20Gasket_0_0
>>> The vacuum hoses and PCV grommet are in good shape.
>>>
>>> Yes, this car does seem to burn alot of oil.... 1L every 2000 Km or so.
>>>
>>> I'll remove the EGR valve to examine it this weekend and clean it w/ carb
>>> cleaner.... but it seems to be operating well at present.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Roger
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Shuman wrote:
>>>> Roger,
>>>>
>>>> I have a few questions and a comment:
>>>>
>>>> Is the Service Engine Light lit? (You do not say...)
>>>> Why do you think "the EGR valve is fine?"
>>>> How many total miles on the engine/vehicle?
>>>> How many miles in the 4+ years since the old EGR was replaced?
>>>> When you replaced the EGR valve, did you also thoroughly clean the
>>>> intake manifold port?
>>>>
>>>> Based on the symptoms you describe, I'd personally suspect the EGR is
>>>> not operating correctly (if I recall correctly, the '95 was still vacuum
>>>> operated so look at the rubber hose and diaphragm for small cracks) or
>>>> the EGR passage in the manifold is partially blocked. By the way, 4
>>>> years and 50K miles is about all you get from the EGR, especially if the
>>>> engine burns a good deal of oil.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Roger E" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx
>>>>>
>>>>> Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.
>>>>>
>>>>> Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading
>>>>> for NO ppm:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound
>>>>> to fail on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every
>>>>> 2 years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result
>>>>> for NOx was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not
>>>>> been a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
>>>>> replace it with a new one 4 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2
>>>>> months before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system
>>>>> cleaners over this year
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
>>>>> possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
>>>>> readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe,
>>>>> so the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before
>>>>> and after the cat though.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
>>>>> properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
>>>>> RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. I do not use platinum or iridium
>>>>> plugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
>>>>> clean the throttle body valve this summer.
>>>>>
>>>>> 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
>>>>> well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving.
>>>>> This past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF
>>>>> transmission fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this
>>>>> over concentrated flush chemicals, never had problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
>>>>> September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
>>>>> belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail
>>>>> harness to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running
>>>>> problems with my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of
>>>>> town when this happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail
>>>>> harness was replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008
>>>>> Emissions Test was performed at the same shop immediately after the
>>>>> repair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
>>>>> Thanks, Roger
>>>>>
>>>>> Three Emissions Tests results...
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Results: Nov 2008
>>>>>
>>>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200,
>>>>> pass
>>>>>
>>>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1,
>>>>> pass
>>>>>
>>>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>>>> (not done)
>>>>>
>>>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
>>>>> @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid
>>>>>
>>>>> Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Results: 2006
>>>>>
>>>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200,
>>>>> pass
>>>>>
>>>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1,
>>>>> pass
>>>>>
>>>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>>>> (not done)
>>>>>
>>>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
>>>>> @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid
>>>>>
>>>>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Results: 2004
>>>>>
>>>>> HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200,
>>>>> pass
>>>>>
>>>>> CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1,
>>>>> pass
>>>>>
>>>>> NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
>>>>> (not done)
>>>>>
>>>>> @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
>>>>> @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid
>>>>>
>>>>> Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>

>
>

  #9  
Old December 4th 08, 03:00 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
danielr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

On Nov 28, 1:20*pm, JimR > wrote:
> You've got to stop using Nitro while you are running it at the Funny Car
> Circuit :-)
>
> Sorry I can't offer any real help. *I just went out to check the
> emissions inspection reports on my 97 SL2, but for at least the last 4
> years, they have not listed actual readings (here in CT), only pass/fail.
>
> Good luck with yours.
>
> JimR
>
>
>
> Roger E wrote:
> > 1995 Saturn SL1 fail Emissions Test for high NOx

>
> > Car: 1995 Saturn SL1 SOHC, 1.9L.

>
> > Symptom: Drive Clean Emissions Inspection Report show failed reading for
> > NO ppm:

>
> > Another headache.... ok my Saturn is 14 years old, so things are bound
> > to fail on it.

>
> > I’ve included my last three Emissions Tests results below, (done every 2
> > years). In 2006 my NOx result was a close pass. In 2008 the result for
> > NOx was a bad fail. However the HC and CO measurements have not been a
> > problem.

>
> > The info included suggests for high NOx on driving test...

>
> > 1.-inoperative EGR... my EGR valve is fine, not the original, I did
> > replace it with a new one 4 years ago.

>
> > 2.-excessive lean air/fuel ratio... I did replace the air filter 2
> > months before the test. I have used fuel injector and fuel system
> > cleaners over this year

>
> > 3.-malfunctioning catalytic converter - 3-way catalyst only.... this is
> > possible with the age of the car, but I would think that the HC and CO
> > readings would be higher too? There is good exhaust out of my tailpipe,
> > so the cat is not plugged. I did not measure the pipe pressure before
> > and after the cat though.

>
> > 4.-excessive spark advance... I change the spark plugs myself, gap them
> > properly at 0.040”, the current four are one year old, Champion brand
> > RC12YC, traditional flat copper core. *I do not use platinum or iridium
> > plugs.

>
> > 5.-faulty thermostatic air cleaner system.... air filter is new, I did
> > clean the throttle body valve this summer.

>
> > 6.-engine deposits or mechanical defect..... my engine runs and idles
> > well. I do oil changes every 5000 - 7000 Km, mostly highway driving.
> > This past summer I did do a mild engine flush using 1 L of ATF
> > transmission fluid before an oil change. Folks have recommended this
> > over concentrated flush chemicals, never had problems.

>
> > 7.-faulty cooling system... I did replace a failed water pump in
> > September, coolant was flushed and replaced. I did replace my accessory
> > belt. I also replaced a faulty temp sensor in July’08. The pigtail
> > harness to this coolant temp sensor was corroded and caused running
> > problems with my engine 2 weeks ago (stalling). I was stranded out of
> > town when this happened and took the car to a shop where this pigtail
> > harness was replaced. Engine was running fine thereafter and this 2008
> > Emissions Test was performed at the same shop immediately after the repair.

>
> > Any suggestions? .... Much appreciated.
> > Thanks, Roger

>
> > Three Emissions Tests results...
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----------------------------

>
> > Results: Nov 2008

>
> > HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 23, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 53, limit 200, pass

>
> > CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.00, limit 1, pass

>
> > NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 1149, limit 576, FAIL; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> > (not done)

>
> > @ 40Km/h RPM 1780, Dilution 14.41, valid
> > @ Idle, RPM 745, Dilution 12.80, valid

>
> > Analyzer Software Version: 4.54
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----------------------------

>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----------------------------

>
> > Results: 2006

>
> > HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 7, limit 75, pass; @ Idle, 20, limit 200, pass

>
> > CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.01, limit 0.42, pass; @ Idle, 0.16, limit 1, pass

>
> > NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 550, limit 576, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> > (not done)

>
> > @ 40Km/h RPM 2858, Dilution 14.2, valid
> > @ Idle, RPM 751, Dilution 12.6, valid

>
> > Analyzer Software Version: 3.53
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----------------------------

>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----------------------------

>
> > Results: 2004

>
> > HC ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 33, limit 86, pass; @ Idle, 196, limit 200, pass

>
> > CO % @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 0.02, limit 0.48, pass; @ Idle, 0.33, limit 1, pass

>
> > NO ppm @ 40Km/h ASM 2525, 301, limit 663, pass; @ Idle, -, limit -, -
> > (not done)

>
> > @ 40Km/h RPM 1982, Dilution 14.9, valid
> > @ Idle, RPM 760, Dilution 13.20, valid

>
> > Analyzer Software Version: 3.16
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*------------------------------ Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -


I hope this helps:
I have a SL1, 1997, SOHC, 171000 KM.
I ONLY use Synthetic oil Mobil 5W30 (good deal @ Costco), changed
every 5000 Km. I ONLY use the K&N oil filter. I prefer to invest in
preventive maintenance.
Every couple of years (here in Toronto, Canada), I must have it
emission test certified for at time of license renewal, which is the
date of my birthday (February! Bloody Winter cool!).
The tric I use (again, just my situation, which might apply to you or
not), is to have the engine VERY hot before going to testsite, and
change the PCV valve (regardless how good it mght look from outside),
a couple of hours before.
Also, I fill the tank with the highest octane gasoilne.
Regulations here require the testing of leakage from the gas tank cup.
I have another cup (brand new), which I ONLY use at test time, to swap
few hours before the test.
Somehow (yes; folks; I'm knocking wood), seems to have helped.
Good luck.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Emissions Fail.... argh! SteveH Alfa Romeo 16 March 17th 07 05:47 PM
High Hydrocarbons Cause 1989 Oldsmobile to Flunk Emissions Test Beloved Leader Technology 6 October 8th 06 01:49 PM
91 Acura Integra - High NOx - Failed emissions test - NJ [email protected] Honda 3 September 10th 06 02:54 AM
MOT emissions fail mad eddie Alfa Romeo 17 October 15th 05 11:45 PM
emissions test-high NO reading - what to look at patrick mitchel Technology 2 August 4th 05 01:55 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.