LeMans for SCC - track info

Hi Guys....

Hope you don't mind me posting this here.....since the RSC SCC site/server
is down....and has been for a couple of days now:

Specific to the LeMans track(s) RSDG made for the SCC mod.......is the
Bugatti 2003 LeMans track what they run for the 24-hours race? If
"yes"....has there been any updates/patches to bring the signage and course
markings up to spec for what the 2004 LeMans 24-Hours race has/had?

It looks as though the Flying Lizards team is going to hire us to build them
a GT3-RSR Porsche simulator that they will use to train their drivers to run
LeMans (this year). That means I will probably do a "track graphics
realism" patch for the LeMans track in SCC. If this happens, I will post it
for everyone to download......as I think my previous "track graphics
patches" for Papy's NASCAR xx series tracks have gained some notoriety over
the years.

I will obviously also need the 2004 Porsche GT3-RSR car model and
physics....but I'm hoping that is in their upcoming patch for SCC? If
someone from RSDG needs help with anything for the Porsche GT3-RSR car
(photos of cockpit, measurements, information from the car engineers), I'd
be happy to get it for them as we are located next door to Flying Lizards
Motorsports at Infineon Raceway.

Regards,

Tom Pabst

Hi Tom.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to use rFactor for this project? You would even
be able to run the race in real time with track/lighting conditions
conditions changing over the 24 hour race.


--
David G Fisher

"Tom Pabst" > wrote in message
news:4uHtd.224658$R05.71188@attbi_s53...
> Hi Guys....
>
> Hope you don't mind me posting this here.....since the RSC SCC site/server
> is down....and has been for a couple of days now:
>
> Specific to the LeMans track(s) RSDG made for the SCC mod.......is the
> Bugatti 2003 LeMans track what they run for the 24-hours race? If
> "yes"....has there been any updates/patches to bring the signage and
course
> markings up to spec for what the 2004 LeMans 24-Hours race has/had?
>
> It looks as though the Flying Lizards team is going to hire us to build
them
> a GT3-RSR Porsche simulator that they will use to train their drivers to
run
> LeMans (this year). That means I will probably do a "track graphics
> realism" patch for the LeMans track in SCC. If this happens, I will post
it
> for everyone to download......as I think my previous "track graphics
> patches" for Papy's NASCAR xx series tracks have gained some notoriety
over
> the years.
>
> I will obviously also need the 2004 Porsche GT3-RSR car model and
> physics....but I'm hoping that is in their upcoming patch for SCC? If
> someone from RSDG needs help with anything for the Porsche GT3-RSR car
> (photos of cockpit, measurements, information from the car engineers), I'd
> be happy to get it for them as we are located next door to Flying Lizards
> Motorsports at Infineon Raceway.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pabst
>
>

To Both David and Kevin.......

Hi guys, nice to hear from you.....since it's been a few months....maybe way
longer than that? We are so busy here at PR.com.......months seem like days
to me.

Kevin: I did download the RSDG 1.0 LeMans from that actual site. But, it
contains something like 5 versions of the LeMans track....thus my question:
Which one is the 24-Hours run on? I have never run that track and haven't
been to LeMans either (though I suspect I'm going this year with the FL
guys).

rFactor....SSM? Those are new to me. I have no idea who/what they
are.......but I'm not nearly as plugged in to the online sim racing
community these days as I once was. So, perhaps I simply missed this new
development? If somebody could enlighten me in a few paragraphs, I'd really
appreciate it.

The primary need for the FL project is one car, one track (the correct
LeMans track) with the best car physics and best track configuration/mapping
and visuals......as possible. That's all that is needed for the driver
coaching necessary for their driver team to learn the track before going
over to France. However, I did discuss the possibility with both team
principals.....of holding a mock 24-hour race using two simulators.....both
driver teams, car chiefs and crew chiefs.....racing against AI
competitors.....for 24 hours. They would do this in our race shop, in our
sim demo room above our workshop. In fact, the principals said they'd
probably do three or four of these mock races.......on three consecutive
weekends (Saturday, noon starts). I told them that this was dependent on
finding or having time to create........accurate AI teams and cars.....and a
track whose light conditions would follow the real-time clock. I had heard
this was being worked on months and months ago....but did not know the
status of it. They are eager to find out if this is possible. We do have a
T1 Internet connection at our shop. So, I suppose it's feasible that even
other online humans could participate in this mock 24-hour race. That would
really be interesting....and add an even deeper level of realism since the
other human drivers would add a "human factor" making the events and
happenings of the race even more realistic. How cool would that really be?
I'd be total psyched if that could be pulled off!

Of course, this would be awesome for the sim racing community mod makers
too, since a ton of real-time data and feedback would come from this. All
information would be equally shared.....both directions......with the sim
community and the FL simulators/team. We've actually been working privately
with two of their four drivers already. One of them is new to the team this
year and this is not yet public knowledge, so I'm prevented from telling you
his name at this time. I can tell you his name is well known (here in the
USA), and that he won a major series championship last year. Not too hard
to figure out who it might be......that limits the candidates
considerably...LOL.....

If.....and I am only speculating.......if information about this rFactor or
SSM sports car project is not publicly available.....but the principals want
to get in touch with us, I hope they will be comfortable with emailing me
directly (through this r.a.s. post return email address). I have
temporarily removed the "no spam" interlineation in the address so there's
no problem with email getting through.

Good to hear from you guys.......thanks for the input and information.

Regards,

Tom

"Tom Pabst" > wrote in
news:4uHtd.224658$R05.71188@attbi_s53:

> Hi Guys....
>
> Hope you don't mind me posting this here.....since the RSC SCC
> site/server is down....and has been for a couple of days now:
>
> Specific to the LeMans track(s) RSDG made for the SCC mod.......is the
> Bugatti 2003 LeMans track what they run for the 24-hours race? If
> "yes"....has there been any updates/patches to bring the signage and
> course markings up to spec for what the 2004 LeMans 24-Hours race
> has/had?
>
> It looks as though the Flying Lizards team is going to hire us to
> build them a GT3-RSR Porsche simulator that they will use to train
> their drivers to run LeMans (this year). That means I will probably
> do a "track graphics realism" patch for the LeMans track in SCC. If
> this happens, I will post it for everyone to download......as I think
> my previous "track graphics patches" for Papy's NASCAR xx series
> tracks have gained some notoriety over the years.
>
> I will obviously also need the 2004 Porsche GT3-RSR car model and
> physics....but I'm hoping that is in their upcoming patch for SCC? If
> someone from RSDG needs help with anything for the Porsche GT3-RSR car
> (photos of cockpit, measurements, information from the car engineers),
> I'd be happy to get it for them as we are located next door to Flying
> Lizards Motorsports at Infineon Raceway.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pabst
>
>

Rfactor has no firm release date yet. The RSDG track contains two
circuits. Bugatti is the shorter track and yes, it was used for the
first 1000k LMES race in the fall of 03. The Bugatti track also hosts a
24hr Motorcycle race amoung other events I'm sure.
THe longer circuit, often called Le Sarthe is the big one that is used
every year for the 24 hrs of Le Mans. If you choose 5 percent race
distance, about 20 laps for the RSDG track, you will cycle through the
entire day, dusk, night, dawn, day changes. There is one .plr file edit
you have to make tho for this to work.

There is also a very very very good version of Le MAns for Nr2k3. I
would think the 330 mod might closest approximate the Porche speeds.
But again, that is NOT gonna give you the 'Simulator' experience. And
excepting that there is a day version and a night version, you get no
'time of day' cycling.
RSDG is probably done with artwork and such with their patch, they
most likely are tweeking vehicle performance and testing at this point.
I know they planned to release a carpack after or with the patch(rumour
is near Christmas) but I doubt it will focus on cars they have already
produced in the original mod(read that as...Lamboghinni yes...another
Porche, doubtful)

I had about 30 cars from SCC geared and tweeked so that the AI
controlled cars ran very close to actual lap times at Le Mans in 2003.
Just about all the classes were quicker in 2004. (and even pitted for
fuel when they were supposed to<all except the Judd engined cars that
is.>) But that was mainly focused on the LMP and GTS's...the GT class
was already slow enough I thought..

You can run 50 cars at the RSDG track, but they always seem to stack 2
cars in one pit...which causes some AI confusion. The pace of the
original SCC mod would probably be on par with 2004(except for the fuel
consumption. The original cars had a poorly sorted fuel use estimation,
the result was that many cars ran out of fuel.

And the standing start that comes with SCC causes plenty of damage as
the cars get underway. RSDG heavily stregthened the wings and bumpers so
that many cars are not eliminated before turn one, but that feature is
also part of the patch. It's not hard to fix...just more text editing.

I doubt that anyone has fully current signage...again, the NR2k3 Le
Mans is probably closer to real than the RSDG version. But either will
get the drivers at least familiar with the layout.

dave henrie

I have never dloaded the 1.o version. The one you want is the 8.5 mile course.
SSM has a forum at RSC when it comes back. I am not sure *exactly* which is
the most accurate version to the 2005-2005 track. I know the SSM versions were
LM2002 and for the LeMans 02 mod for F12k2 and are covertibale to SCC.
Hopefully someone with a little more knowledge can give you that info.
Understanding that NO sim track is perfect I think one of these should at least
give them enough to start with. Good Luck...let me know how it works out, or
if I can help in any way...


Kevin (aka tlgtr)
****
Zip slowly, medical statistics show that over 100,000 people are injured
annually by their clothing.

"Tom Pabst" > wrote in message
news:XdQtd.537148$D%.261381@attbi_s51...
>
> rFactor....SSM? Those are new to me. I have no idea who/what they
> are.......but I'm not nearly as plugged in to the online sim racing
> community these days as I once was. So, perhaps I simply missed this new
> development? If somebody could enlighten me in a few paragraphs, I'd
really
> appreciate it.
>

rFactor is the coming release from ISI, (F1C) and uses their latest game
engine. Here is the web site http://www.rfactor.net/ (definitely read the Q
and A sections) and there is a multiplayer test demo you can download. The
demo is for testing and improving the multiplayer and doesn't have the final
physics, graphics, damage model, or sound, but it's still pretty amazing. I
and many others believe it will be the best sim yet when it's released. It's
main feature is that it's a sim specifically designed for the mod community.
Those who previously were making mods using F1C will switch to rFactor. ISI
have allowed some mod teams to begin work on mods already.

Here's the forum at RSC http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?f=799 where
you can probably get the answers to your questions about the track/car you
are looking for. I know there will be a LeMans mod made for rFactor.

> The primary need for the FL project is one car, one track (the correct
> LeMans track) with the best car physics and best track
configuration/mapping
> and visuals......as possible. That's all that is needed for the driver
> coaching necessary for their driver team to learn the track before going
> over to France. However, I did discuss the possibility with both team
> principals.....of holding a mock 24-hour race using two
simulators.....both
> driver teams, car chiefs and crew chiefs.....racing against AI
> competitors.....for 24 hours. They would do this in our race shop, in our
> sim demo room above our workshop. In fact, the principals said they'd
> probably do three or four of these mock races.......on three consecutive
> weekends (Saturday, noon starts). I told them that this was dependent on
> finding or having time to create........accurate AI teams and cars.....and
a
> track whose light conditions would follow the real-time clock. I had
heard
> this was being worked on months and months ago....but did not know the
> status of it. They are eager to find out if this is possible. We do have
a
> T1 Internet connection at our shop. So, I suppose it's feasible that even
> other online humans could participate in this mock 24-hour race. That
would
> really be interesting....and add an even deeper level of realism since the
> other human drivers would add a "human factor" making the events and
> happenings of the race even more realistic. How cool would that really
be?
> I'd be total psyched if that could be pulled off!

I'm 100% positive you will be able to do this with rFactor. In the full
version of rFactor, the tracks light conditions can actually follow the
real-time clock over a 24 hour period. Track lights will also turn on/off
automatically (you turn on/off car lights). The demo lets you see an eight
hour change (you can accelerate the time and it's stunning--shadows/track
surface lighting make it difficult to see braking points, etc.). For you it
will just depend on when the car and track is available. I would guess it
wouldn't be too long after the game is released in February. There was an
announcement of a LeMans mod for rFactor at the RSC rFactor forum just the
other day. Again, when the RSC forums are up and running again (been down
for 24 hours), post your questions at the link I provided and I'm sure
you'll get all the info you need. The developers have been there answering
questions too. The demo came out a few weeks ago and things have gone a bit
quiet by now, but it's still active.

Could I run in the mock race? :-)

--
David G Fisher

Tom,

It would seem to me that GTR would be the sim to use for this project. The
physics are far beyond anything out right now and they have many GT3's
modled now. You would only need to convert the track over. The models are
done and are great. The physics are great.

Chad


"Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
. 97.136...
> "Tom Pabst" > wrote in
> news:4uHtd.224658$R05.71188@attbi_s53:
>
>> Hi Guys....
>>
>> Hope you don't mind me posting this here.....since the RSC SCC
>> site/server is down....and has been for a couple of days now:
>>
>> Specific to the LeMans track(s) RSDG made for the SCC mod.......is the
>> Bugatti 2003 LeMans track what they run for the 24-hours race? If
>> "yes"....has there been any updates/patches to bring the signage and
>> course markings up to spec for what the 2004 LeMans 24-Hours race
>> has/had?
>>
>> It looks as though the Flying Lizards team is going to hire us to
>> build them a GT3-RSR Porsche simulator that they will use to train
>> their drivers to run LeMans (this year). That means I will probably
>> do a "track graphics realism" patch for the LeMans track in SCC. If
>> this happens, I will post it for everyone to download......as I think
>> my previous "track graphics patches" for Papy's NASCAR xx series
>> tracks have gained some notoriety over the years.
>>
>> I will obviously also need the 2004 Porsche GT3-RSR car model and
>> physics....but I'm hoping that is in their upcoming patch for SCC? If
>> someone from RSDG needs help with anything for the Porsche GT3-RSR car
>> (photos of cockpit, measurements, information from the car engineers),
>> I'd be happy to get it for them as we are located next door to Flying
>> Lizards Motorsports at Infineon Raceway.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tom Pabst
>>
>>
>
> Rfactor has no firm release date yet. The RSDG track contains two
> circuits. Bugatti is the shorter track and yes, it was used for the
> first 1000k LMES race in the fall of 03. The Bugatti track also hosts a
> 24hr Motorcycle race amoung other events I'm sure.
> THe longer circuit, often called Le Sarthe is the big one that is used
> every year for the 24 hrs of Le Mans. If you choose 5 percent race
> distance, about 20 laps for the RSDG track, you will cycle through the
> entire day, dusk, night, dawn, day changes. There is one .plr file edit
> you have to make tho for this to work.
>
> There is also a very very very good version of Le MAns for Nr2k3. I
> would think the 330 mod might closest approximate the Porche speeds.
> But again, that is NOT gonna give you the 'Simulator' experience. And
> excepting that there is a day version and a night version, you get no
> 'time of day' cycling.
> RSDG is probably done with artwork and such with their patch, they
> most likely are tweeking vehicle performance and testing at this point.
> I know they planned to release a carpack after or with the patch(rumour
> is near Christmas) but I doubt it will focus on cars they have already
> produced in the original mod(read that as...Lamboghinni yes...another
> Porche, doubtful)
>
> I had about 30 cars from SCC geared and tweeked so that the AI
> controlled cars ran very close to actual lap times at Le Mans in 2003.
> Just about all the classes were quicker in 2004. (and even pitted for
> fuel when they were supposed to<all except the Judd engined cars that
> is.>) But that was mainly focused on the LMP and GTS's...the GT class
> was already slow enough I thought..
>
> You can run 50 cars at the RSDG track, but they always seem to stack 2
> cars in one pit...which causes some AI confusion. The pace of the
> original SCC mod would probably be on par with 2004(except for the fuel
> consumption. The original cars had a poorly sorted fuel use estimation,
> the result was that many cars ran out of fuel.
>
> And the standing start that comes with SCC causes plenty of damage as
> the cars get underway. RSDG heavily stregthened the wings and bumpers so
> that many cars are not eliminated before turn one, but that feature is
> also part of the patch. It's not hard to fix...just more text editing.
>
> I doubt that anyone has fully current signage...again, the NR2k3 Le
> Mans is probably closer to real than the RSDG version. But either will
> get the drivers at least familiar with the layout.
>
> dave henrie
>

Thanks for the suggestion, Chad.

I have only driven the GTR demo, but would have to say that I was impressed
by the car physics as well as the overall mod itself.

However, I live in the US and haven't (as yet) been able to get a copy of
GTR - full version. I also don't know about converting tracks, and the
teams GTR contains are not relevant to LeMans or the ALMS series (and my
customer is). Not that this is entirely required, but it would be "nice to
have" and the SCC mod does do that. I also can't say for certain, that the
SCC mod is substantially less......in terms of car physics. But that is a
judgment I reserve final status of.....when the new SCC patch is released.

And finally, I'm not certain the GTR Porsches and the ALMS Porsches are
identical cars. Are the GTR Porsches GT3-RSR Porsches in the GTR mod? That
is the Porsche I need modeled and car physics adapted to.....running on
Michelin tires.

So Chad, there's lots of unanswered questions as of the moment, regarding my
use of the GTR mod for F1C. But thank you for reminding me to put the GTR
mod on my list of "possibilities" for this project.

Regards,

Tom

Tom,

I have the full version of GTR ordered from Germany and I can tell you that
the physics are unreal. I don't know the specifics about what type of GT3's
there are, but none of the cars in the game use Michelin tires. The GT3's
use Dunlop or Pirelli. There have been tracks converted from the f1c game,
but they have nowhere near the detail level of the GTR tracks. Without
working for Simbin myself I couldn't give them a stronger endorsement, it is
a fantastic sim. As for the GT3's, they are a kick to drive and not at all
easy

Chad


--
Chad Rogers
Hospital Account Manager
P&G Pharmaceuticals
(206)368-3582
(206)963-2036 cell
"Tom Pabst" > wrote in message
news:Ha1ud.230531$R05.88123@attbi_s53...
> Thanks for the suggestion, Chad.
>
> I have only driven the GTR demo, but would have to say that I was
> impressed by the car physics as well as the overall mod itself.
>
> However, I live in the US and haven't (as yet) been able to get a copy of
> GTR - full version. I also don't know about converting tracks, and the
> teams GTR contains are not relevant to LeMans or the ALMS series (and my
> customer is). Not that this is entirely required, but it would be "nice
> to have" and the SCC mod does do that. I also can't say for certain, that
> the SCC mod is substantially less......in terms of car physics. But that
> is a judgment I reserve final status of.....when the new SCC patch is
> released.
>
> And finally, I'm not certain the GTR Porsches and the ALMS Porsches are
> identical cars. Are the GTR Porsches GT3-RSR Porsches in the GTR mod?
> That is the Porsche I need modeled and car physics adapted to.....running
> on Michelin tires.
>
> So Chad, there's lots of unanswered questions as of the moment, regarding
> my use of the GTR mod for F1C. But thank you for reminding me to put the
> GTR mod on my list of "possibilities" for this project.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>

http://www.gtr-game.com/index.php?page=cars0

Tom,

Here is a link to the cars of GTR from the main site. Hope it helps.

Chad


"Chad Rogers" > wrote in message
...
> Tom,
>
> I have the full version of GTR ordered from Germany and I can tell you
> that the physics are unreal. I don't know the specifics about what type
> of GT3's there are, but none of the cars in the game use Michelin tires.
> The GT3's use Dunlop or Pirelli. There have been tracks converted from
> the f1c game, but they have nowhere near the detail level of the GTR
> tracks. Without working for Simbin myself I couldn't give them a stronger
> endorsement, it is a fantastic sim. As for the GT3's, they are a kick to
> drive and not at all easy
>
> Chad
>
>
> --
> Chad Rogers
> Hospital Account Manager
> P&G Pharmaceuticals
> (206)368-3582
> (206)963-2036 cell
> "Tom Pabst" > wrote in message
> news:Ha1ud.230531$R05.88123@attbi_s53...
>> Thanks for the suggestion, Chad.
>>
>> I have only driven the GTR demo, but would have to say that I was
>> impressed by the car physics as well as the overall mod itself.
>>
>> However, I live in the US and haven't (as yet) been able to get a copy of
>> GTR - full version. I also don't know about converting tracks, and the
>> teams GTR contains are not relevant to LeMans or the ALMS series (and my
>> customer is). Not that this is entirely required, but it would be "nice
>> to have" and the SCC mod does do that. I also can't say for certain,
>> that the SCC mod is substantially less......in terms of car physics. But
>> that is a judgment I reserve final status of.....when the new SCC patch
>> is released.
>>
>> And finally, I'm not certain the GTR Porsches and the ALMS Porsches are
>> identical cars. Are the GTR Porsches GT3-RSR Porsches in the GTR mod?
>> That is the Porsche I need modeled and car physics adapted to.....running
>> on Michelin tires.
>>
>> So Chad, there's lots of unanswered questions as of the moment, regarding
>> my use of the GTR mod for F1C. But thank you for reminding me to put the
>> GTR mod on my list of "possibilities" for this project.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>
>