Stop the old oil change arguments...here's the scoop

Mike wrote:
> "Coyoteboy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Mike" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> What oil are you using ? Brand/viscosity/dino or synthetic
>> A variety of brands from Chevron to mobil1 - its suprisingly repeatable
>> within each oil, though each oil gives a slightly different starting
>> pressure, the "delta P" is almost always the same within the same type
>> (synth or "semi" synth)and time frame. Always synth has longer time before
>> drop in pressure, semi synth slightly shorter. I dont use dino. 5-40, or
>> the closest I can get to the OEM within each oil (10-40 being correct for
>> my location) BTW. The effects were worse with 5-50 IIRC.
>>
>> J
>
>
> Interesting test. It's interesting that the results are similar with
> different brands of oil. Do you think it is just the heat from the turbo
> that causes the oil to degrade or are high rpm's a factor as well ? No
> matter what the cause that sounds like a pretty severe torture test for
> motor oil.
>
>

A turbocompressor runs at extreme RPMs. of course it will kill oil
really fast... (might even take itself with it)

I'd like to see tests with a supercharger...

--
Don't drink water, fish have sex in it!

> Interesting test. It's interesting that the results are similar with
> different brands of oil. Do you think it is just the heat from the turbo
> that causes the oil to degrade or are high rpm's a factor as well ? No
> matter what the cause that sounds like a pretty severe torture test for
> motor oil.

I dont normally use cheap brands of oil but im currently flushing my engine
with el-cheapo dino oil having dropped a bit of grit into it and having to
change the synth out while i had no spare - I'll keep you posted.

Im fairly sure its a combination of the two, the RPMs of the turbo are
fairly inconsequential IMO (referring to El Banditos post) - though the
turbo is spinning at ~150Krpm all the oil is doing is supporting the centre
shaft with fairly small load on it. High RPMs on the engine are a totally
different matter though, with huge force and high rotation rates, and Im
fairly sure sitting at the top end of the rev range (fairly hard with this
car, I'm at ~100mph at 4Krpm, it red lines at 7.5K) eats the oil faster as
after a few 600mile round trip motorway runs to my brother which i normally
do "spiritedly" the oil seems more "watery" than if I use it just pottering
around - but then at spirited motorway cruise speed the turbo looks like
this (this isnt mine BTW)
www.jbuckle.homeip.net/glow.wmv
Not very oil friendly! Bulk oil temps remain below max safe levels but
small quantities clearly get super-heated.

J

"Coyoteboy" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Interesting test. It's interesting that the results are similar with
>> different brands of oil. Do you think it is just the heat from the turbo
>> that causes the oil to degrade or are high rpm's a factor as well ? No
>> matter what the cause that sounds like a pretty severe torture test for
>> motor oil.
>
> I dont normally use cheap brands of oil but im currently flushing my
> engine with el-cheapo dino oil having dropped a bit of grit into it and
> having to change the synth out while i had no spare - I'll keep you
> posted.
>
> Im fairly sure its a combination of the two, the RPMs of the turbo are
> fairly inconsequential IMO (referring to El Banditos post) - though the
> turbo is spinning at ~150Krpm all the oil is doing is supporting the
> centre shaft with fairly small load on it. High RPMs on the engine are a
> totally different matter though, with huge force and high rotation rates,
> and Im fairly sure sitting at the top end of the rev range (fairly hard
> with this car, I'm at ~100mph at 4Krpm, it red lines at 7.5K) eats the oil
> faster as after a few 600mile round trip motorway runs to my brother which
> i normally do "spiritedly" the oil seems more "watery" than if I use it
> just pottering around - but then at spirited motorway cruise speed the
> turbo looks like this (this isnt mine BTW)
> www.jbuckle.homeip.net/glow.wmv
> Not very oil friendly! Bulk oil temps remain below max safe levels but
> small quantities clearly get super-heated.
>
> J


Wow! It's amazing how quickly that exhaust heats up. I can see were that
high a temp would not be good for the oil but it's only a small percentage
of oil that is going to the turbo. That's a pretty harsh environment though.

"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
news:qtFOh.14878$_S.14362@trndny08...
>>
> Um, I'm still on the original clutch with my 5-speed Corolla GTS, and I
> didn't always baby that car...259,000 miles...
>
>

I agree no problem with clutches if cars are driven well.

I too am on my original clutch on my 5-speed '94 Sentra XE 1.6L with 258,896
as of this moment. Depending on the situation I sometimes accelerate hard,
sometimes very hard.

I bought the car in May 1997 with 52K on it and have changed the oil every
5,000 miles, or close to it. I have kept a record of every penny spent on
the car since May 1997. For the first 8-1/2 years I commuted to work 75
miles a day round trip. Most was highway driving but there were plenty of
traffice jams too. Now I drive only 1 mile to work and sometimes drive a
few extra miles in the morning just to warm up the car.

Exclusive of loan payments to buy the car, the costs to date (May 1997 to
Apr 2007; 202,000 miles I put on it):

Maintenance $2,878 ( includes 31 oil changes, 3 major tuneups, a lot of air
filters, a few gas filters, windshield wipers, tires, washings and waxings)
Repairs $2,067 (includes two high quality batteries, brakes transmission
front shafts, 5 alternators, repair emmission system, replace windshield, a
few headlight bulbs and a little exhaust work)
Additions $122 (some replacement hub caps and a CD player)
Fuel costs $6,868 (actual dollars spent during the almost ten years)
Insurance $3,303 (approximate since we have multiple cars in the family)

The auto has never been in an accident, except one bump on the hood, has a
little rust in one door jamb and has been garage parked the entire life.

I want to get a new car but I doubt I will part with this one. If you take
care of a car then it will take care of you.

Mark

In article >,
Wickeddoll® > wrote:
>
>"Steve" ...
>> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>:
>>>
>>>>The quality of American cars isn't going to get better until they fire
>>>>some of the computer geeks and hire back some real engineers.
>>>
>>>
>>> It wasn't computer geeks producing the ****balls of the 1970s and 1980s.
>>>
>>> It's not computer geeks producing them now.
>>
>> Like I said. MBAsshole management is the common denominator, and is
>> infecting the Japanese companies one by one as they get bigger.
>
>Gawd, I hope not.

It's already infected them. American asshole management is simply a
poor translation from the Japanese of the techniques the Japanese
got from Americans in the 1950s.

Somehow, neither the original American techniques nor the
doubly-translated versions actually work in the US. Perhaps something
was gained in translation, or perhaps the techniques work better with
Japanese culture.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

"Matthew T. Russotto"

> Wickeddoll® :
>>
>>"Steve" ...
>>>>
>>>>>The quality of American cars isn't going to get better until they fire
>>>>>some of the computer geeks and hire back some real engineers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't computer geeks producing the ****balls of the 1970s and
>>>> 1980s.
>>>>
>>>> It's not computer geeks producing them now.
>>>
>>> Like I said. MBAsshole management is the common denominator, and is
>>> infecting the Japanese companies one by one as they get bigger.
>>
>>Gawd, I hope not.
>
> It's already infected them. American asshole management is simply a
> poor translation from the Japanese of the techniques the Japanese
> got from Americans in the 1950s.

What goes around comes around, huh?
>
> Somehow, neither the original American techniques nor the
> doubly-translated versions actually work in the US. Perhaps something
> was gained in translation, or perhaps the techniques work better with
> Japanese culture.
> --

*sigh* hope the good times last a while.

Natalie

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Wickeddoll® > wrote:
>> >
>> >"Steve" ...
>> >> Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>> >:
>> >>>
>> >>>>The quality of American cars isn't going to get better until they
>> >>>>fire
>> >>>>some of the computer geeks and hire back some real engineers.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> It wasn't computer geeks producing the ****balls of the 1970s and
>> >>> 1980s.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's not computer geeks producing them now.
>> >>
>> >> Like I said. MBAsshole management is the common denominator, and is
>> >> infecting the Japanese companies one by one as they get bigger.
>> >
>> >Gawd, I hope not.
>>
>> It's already infected them. American asshole management is simply a
>> poor translation from the Japanese of the techniques the Japanese
>> got from Americans in the 1950s.
>>
>> Somehow, neither the original American techniques nor the
>> doubly-translated versions actually work in the US. Perhaps something
>> was gained in translation, or perhaps the techniques work better with
>> Japanese culture.
>
> A Modern Parable:
>
> A Japanese company and an American company decided to have a canoe race
> on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their
> peak performance before the race.
>
> On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
>
> The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate
> the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
> management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
>
> Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person
> steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person
> rowing. Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a
> consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second
> opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the
> boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize
> that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese,
> the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4
> steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant
> superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance
> system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to
> work harder. It was called the "Rowing Team Quality First Program", with
> meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of
> getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for
> practices and bonuses.
>
> The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
>
> Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor
> performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and
> canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was
> distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's
> racing team was out-sourced to India.
>

The good news is American targets are now overseas. Yes? All that's left is
human targets made up of relatives of those overseas.

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

> In article >,
> Wickeddoll® > wrote:
>
>>"Steve" ...
>>
>>>Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>>
>>:
>>
>>>>>The quality of American cars isn't going to get better until they fire
>>>>>some of the computer geeks and hire back some real engineers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It wasn't computer geeks producing the ****balls of the 1970s and 1980s.
>>>>
>>>>It's not computer geeks producing them now.
>>>
>>>Like I said. MBAsshole management is the common denominator, and is
>>>infecting the Japanese companies one by one as they get bigger.
>>
>>Gawd, I hope not.
>
>
> It's already infected them. American asshole management is simply a
> poor translation from the Japanese of the techniques the Japanese
> got from Americans in the 1950s.
>
> Somehow, neither the original American techniques nor the
> doubly-translated versions actually work in the US. Perhaps something
> was gained in translation, or perhaps the techniques work better with
> Japanese culture.

No, everybody just got lazy. There's no longer any pride in a job well
done for the SAKE of a job well done. On either side of the Pacific.
Maybe the US got lazier first because the Japanese cars were considered
a pathetic joke until the 80s and American cars weren't, but they're
both exactly the same now, whatever the interim condition.