Split court rules against Bush on greenhouse gases

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:10:31 -0500, (Brent
P) wrote:

>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>Since you believe in that twisted view, you go fight for it. I wash my
>hands of it.

There you go again - anybody's precious skin except yours.

As for me, I'm 59 - I can't join the military, period. But if I can get hired
on a detail at work, I'll be going to Iraq for 6 months to help our military
fight better - that's the best I can do. Spent 10 hours Thursday evening and
Friday morning massaging my resume and a cover letter to make it happen.

U should join up and come along - ur missing the adventure of a lifetime. And
when someone tries to run you off the road over there, you don't have to slap
their fender, you can shoot 'em. Sound like fun?

DPH

In article >, Dave Head wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:10:31 -0500, (Brent
> P) wrote:
>
>>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. The official obligation is 6 years, that's why my Honorable Discharge is
>>> dated 6 years after I entered the Air Force. I got to serve about 1 1/2 years
>>> of it in the inactive reserve, since active duty was only 4 years and I went
>>> for about 4 1/2 for my own reasons.
>>
>>What you are saying is that I have to give up 6 years of my life, maybe
>>my entire life, risk my health, well being, etc being paid dirt to go
>>fight some foreign wars for corporations

> No, you do it for this great Nation.

The nation doesn't want the war, the corporate owned government does. It
has simply convinced fools like yourself into supporting it.

>> that have no obligation what so
>>ever to the people. That's what you're telling me. You're telling me that
>>we are OWNED. Slaves. Yet you try to cloak this as 'defending the
>>constitution and freedom'. Sad. Very sad.

> And very correct. That's just the way it is, ought to be, and will always be.

Try reading what the founders wrote some time. It's very different than
what you think.

>> Of course I'm watching COPS
>>right now watching a guy on a bicycle being forcibly searched by cops and
>>his money taken....
>
>>While US corporations show no obligation to manufacture products here in
>>the USA but seek the cheapest labor in the world, you expect the people
>>in the USA to go fight wars for more profitable sources of raw material.

> No, its to protect our great Nation.

There is no threat where the war is. The threat is from within. Even if
it's foreign nationals it's from within. Nothing of significance has been
done to secure the borders.

>>>>Why don't you go pick a nation to live in with a traditions more suited
>>>>towards your views instead of ruining this one?

>>> This nation matches my views exactly.

>>Maybe what you and those like you changed it into.

> It was this way before I was born. My Dad enlisted rather than suffering the
> shame of having to be drafted after WW2 started. I was born after the war, so
> I didn't change anything.

The change started before you born, but you keep the change going to
towards corporatism. (what a famous facist said facism really was)

>>Not what it was founded on.

> Oh, yes it was.

Nope. Try learning some history. What Bush & Co. is doing to fight the
Iraq war would have be appaling to George Washington. Just read sometime
how the revolutionary war got and retained the soliders necesscary.

>>> _You_ need to find a new nation where
>>> you are allowed to freeload off the blood, sweat, and tears of everyone else,
>>> and never go in harm's way.
>>
>>Strawman. Your fabrication. I simply refuse to fight wars for people who
>>think they own me. I own me. I am not a number, I am a free man.

> Not if there's a draft and you refuse. Your freedom will be limited by a
> really small cell, and rightly so.

Better to be imprisoned against my will than to be willing slave.

>>I will
>>die free before I serve a day fighting a war for the oil companies or the
>>banks or any of the other groups that are using the force of government.

> That might be arranged, too...

I die free then. Not a slave. You can be groveling slave if you want.

>>> But of course, any nation so composed of people
>>> that are unwilling to sacrifice anything is not likely to be much better than
>>> something like Somalia or some other 3rd world ********, but probably not even
>>> there. Maybe some island nation that has no enemies.

>>The enemies you are so affraid of were created by the US government's
>>intelligence agencies over throwing governments in their nations and
>>proping up dictators, kings, and tyrants that would have long ago fallen
>>and gone the way of the do-do bird otherwise. These actions were
>>undertaken to prevent the people of those nations from getting fair
>>compensation for the resources of those nations and increasing corporate
>>profit.

>>How did you feel when you found that the Clinton adminstration was doing
>>the bidding of Chinese government? How about Bush doing the bidding of
>>the Mexican government? Both betraying the interests of the US people in
>>favor of foreign governments and people. That's just a tiny shard of what
>>was done by the US government to the people in other nations. Because the
>>US government failed time and time again to live up to the ideals in the
>>constitution.

>>Since you believe in that twisted view, you go fight for it. I wash my
>>hands of it.

> Boy, would it be a wonderful thing to bring back the draft... if the military
> only actually wanted it.

Your ignorance of history is astounding. But like Ed, you cover it with
ad hominem and other nonsense. You can have the last word, since you've
had nothing new to bring to the discussion for several posts now.

In article >, Dave Head wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:10:31 -0500, (Brent
> P) wrote:
>
>>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>Since you believe in that twisted view, you go fight for it. I wash my
>>hands of it.
>
> There you go again - anybody's precious skin except yours.

Why are you replying to the same post twice? Are you just stupid?

> As for me, I'm 59 - I can't join the military, period. But if I can get hired
> on a detail at work, I'll be going to Iraq for 6 months to help our military
> fight better - that's the best I can do. Spent 10 hours Thursday evening and
> Friday morning massaging my resume and a cover letter to make it happen.

Your war, you fight it. You want to fight for those who control the
government, put your life on the line to line their pockets, be their
slave, that's your business. But you have no business telling me,
ordering me to fight some stupid war for corporate profit just because
you're too stupid, too poorly educated, to understand what wars like this
are really about.

> U should join up and come along - ur missing the adventure of a lifetime. And
> when someone tries to run you off the road over there, you don't have to slap
> their fender, you can shoot 'em. Sound like fun?

Going to someone else's country to kill them on their streets. Sounds
like empire building and tyranny to me. Unlike you I am not so insecure
that I need a humvee and MAC10 to be a man.

Most people want to be free and left the **** alone. If the US government
just did that, followed that basic principle, there would be no masses of
people that hated it.

But anyway go ahead and have the last word, since all you're going to do
is prattle on about drafting me....

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, Dave Head wrote:

>>> You certainly do believe in tyranny. Sad.

>> Yep - you gotta do your part. Too bad, so sad if you don't see it.

> I'll tell ya, when the muslims come to invade chicago I'll grab a gun and
> defend my block... Meanwhile you can't even prove a threat exists from
> them, let alone reason for war.

Oh, he'll need a new pair of underpants when he encounters the brand new
terrorist threat that plagued Boston earlier this year. But, I'm sure
he and others like him will rally around this iconic image:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/356...cbfa8afys6.jpg

.... low IQ indeed ...

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:04:43 -0500, (Brent
P) wrote:

>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>>What you are saying is that I have to give up 6 years of my life, maybe
>>>my entire life, risk my health, well being, etc being paid dirt to go
>>>fight some foreign wars for corporations
>
>> No, you do it for this great Nation.
>
>The nation doesn't want the war,

The nation wants soldiers. That'd be you...

>the corporate owned government does. It
>has simply convinced fools like yourself into supporting it.

>>>While US corporations show no obligation to manufacture products here in
>>>the USA but seek the cheapest labor in the world, you expect the people
>>>in the USA to go fight wars for more profitable sources of raw material.
>
>> No, its to protect our great Nation.
>
>There is no threat where the war is.

The war is not relevant. Your obligation to serve the country is.

>The threat is from within. Even if
>it's foreign nationals it's from within. Nothing of significance has been
>done to secure the borders.
>
>>>Strawman. Your fabrication. I simply refuse to fight wars for people who
>>>think they own me. I own me. I am not a number, I am a free man.
>
>> Not if there's a draft and you refuse. Your freedom will be limited by a
>> really small cell, and rightly so.
>
>Better to be imprisoned against my will than to be willing slave.

There ya go - no loyalty to the country. You really ought to find a different
country, 'cuz this one has a long tradition of citizens serving in the
military.

>>>I will
>>>die free before I serve a day fighting a war for the oil companies or the
>>>banks or any of the other groups that are using the force of government.
>
>> That might be arranged, too...
>
>I die free then. Not a slave. You can be groveling slave if you want.

Boy, do I wish there was a draft...

>> Boy, would it be a wonderful thing to bring back the draft... if the military
>> only actually wanted it.
>
>Your ignorance of history is astounding. But like Ed, you cover it with
>ad hominem and other nonsense. You can have the last word, since you've
>had nothing new to bring to the discussion for several posts now.

I have nothing to argue - you are just wrong, and define yourself as a
potential criminal - a draft dodger or refusenik. If only the draft were
reinstituted, so that the mechanism could work, and disloyal, self-centered
individuals such as yourself would all be found populating Leavenworth Federal
Penitentiary.

DPH

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:12:02 -0500, (Brent
P) wrote:

>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:10:31 -0500, (Brent
>> P) wrote:
>>
>>>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>>Since you believe in that twisted view, you go fight for it. I wash my
>>>hands of it.
>>
>> There you go again - anybody's precious skin except yours.
>
>Why are you replying to the same post twice? Are you just stupid?
>
>> As for me, I'm 59 - I can't join the military, period. But if I can get hired
>> on a detail at work, I'll be going to Iraq for 6 months to help our military
>> fight better - that's the best I can do. Spent 10 hours Thursday evening and
>> Friday morning massaging my resume and a cover letter to make it happen.
>
>Your war, you fight it.

As long as you're a US Citizen, its your war too. That is why you should pick
another country if you won't defend this one.

>You want to fight for those who control the
>government, put your life on the line to line their pockets, be their
>slave, that's your business. But you have no business telling me,
>ordering me to fight some stupid war for corporate profit just because
>you're too stupid, too poorly educated, to understand what wars like this
>are really about.

Its not about understanding, and its not about me. Its about your shirking of
your duty to this country. Pick another country - some third-world ********
not worth defending, and you _might_ become free of an obligation to defend it,
but probably not.

>But anyway go ahead and have the last word, since all you're going to do
>is prattle on about drafting me....

OK.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 06:27:26 +0800, Bernd Felsche
> wrote:

>"Dave Head" > wrote:
>>Brent P wrote:
>>> Dave Head wrote:
>
>>> >>Here you go again, personal attack.
>
>>> > Well, when someone says they wouldn't fight to protect this
>>> > great Nation, yeah, that's the way it works. Hint: You don't
>>> > get to give lame excuses about the country containing some evil
>>> > bankers or some evil oil companies. Your Nation is in need,
>>> > you defend it.
>
>>> It is not my fault you are easily manipulated by dear leader.
>
>>It has nothing to do with whatever leader happens to be in office at
>>the time. When you join, you swear an oath to protect and defend the
>>Constitution. You are only to carry out legal orders that do not
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>There you go. Orders aren't legal simply because they are issued by
>an authority. And legality isn't bounded by military law. It's all
>the laws that apply wherever the orders are issued and are to be
>carried out.

You'll put yourself at serious risk for disobeying one, tho. You damn well
better be right, and those are pretty close to precisely what our training
instructors said during basic training.

>Every individual bears the burden of interpreting orders and the
>laws that apply.

You can't go burn down Mi Lai just 'cuz Lt. Calley says to. and Lt. Calley
can't do it just 'cuz his superiors say to. But you have to show up if you're
drafted.

>>contradict it or what is generally right. You just have to be damn
>>sure that _you_ are right when you do it, or you're going to jail.
>
>>So, go defend the Constitution... its your turn.
>
>What's the threat to the Constitution?

Our current enemies.

>Surely the nation's own government in the first place.

Naw, more conspiracy theory nonsense.

DPH