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#91
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Speed cameras cause panic braking....
On Nov 7, 8:30*am, Brent > wrote:
> If I drive 80mph on an empty interstate I get ticketed for > being 'dangerous'. Well, you know, a speed camera might cause you to crash. Until speed cameras are outlawed it's better for guys like you to operate nearest the minimum speed limit, don't you think...? <guffaw> ----- - gpsman |
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#92
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Speed cameras cause panic braking....
On Nov 6, 11:14*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 06:08:41 -0800 (PST), Harry K > > > > > > > wrote: > >On Nov 4, 10:11*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote: > >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:25:07 -0600, Brent P > > >> > wrote: > >> >On 2008-11-03, Jim Yanik > wrote: > > >> >> but get a REAL ticket from a police officer,their behavior changes > >> >> immediately,and importantly,OTHER people see it happen and alter THEIR > >> >> behavior. > >> >> And with real points on the driver's license,their DL can be REVOKED if it > >> >> happens enough. > > >> >I am becoming of the opinion that ticketing should _NOT_ occur unless > >> >there was some sort of 'harm' to another. Meaning that, someone had to > >> >take evasive action, brake, etc and so on. > > >> >The vast majority of moving violations seem to be things the cops > >> >themselves do on a daily basis and have zero impact on anyone. (like > >> >'speeding' or a rolling right on red when the cross traffic green left > >> >turn arrows are lit) > > >> As a moments reflection makes clear, the ONLY reason the laws are > >> written as they are is precisely so that cops do NOT have to be able > >> to demonstrate there was any impact. *that's why they have gotten rid > >> of the logical standard of "speed not reasonable and prudent" which > >> would have required producing evidence to making "exceeding the posted > >> speed limit is prima facsa (yeah it's spelled wrong) evidence of speed > >> not reasonable and prudent. *That eliminates the need to demonstrate > >> ANY harm or impact. *It's completely divorced from logic and fairness. > >> It's also why they made most speeding a civil offense so they could > >> dispense with most of your legal protections. *You can't even subpoena > >> what YOU think is important to your defense, you can only get what the > >> judge thinks you need. The same person who rules on your guilt or > >> innocence also controls what evidence you may use to prove your > >> innocence.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Maybe you should advise all the states that their 'speed too fast for > >conditions' citations are no good. *You can get a ticket doing 40 when > >the posted is 65 when the road is iced over. > > >Harry K > > To issue a speed too fast under that statute they have to have some > EVIDENCE that it was too fast. *My point exactly.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Except this state does not have a "statue" 'speed to fast'...it is part of the neg drive or reck drive statutes and can be cited without a "crash". Anyone who thinks that doing something like 70 in heavy fog or icy roads needs more than that... Yes, I had instances of both while I was dispatching. Harry K |
#93
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Speed cameras cause panic braking....
On Nov 7, 10:05*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 07:10:08 -0800 (PST), Harry K > > > > > > > wrote: > >On Nov 6, 11:14*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote: > >> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 06:08:41 -0800 (PST), Harry K > > >> > wrote: > >> >On Nov 4, 10:11*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote: > >> >> On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:25:07 -0600, Brent P > > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >On 2008-11-03, Jim Yanik > wrote: > > >> >> >> but get a REAL ticket from a police officer,their behavior changes > >> >> >> immediately,and importantly,OTHER people see it happen and alter THEIR > >> >> >> behavior. > >> >> >> And with real points on the driver's license,their DL can be REVOKED if it > >> >> >> happens enough. > > >> >> >I am becoming of the opinion that ticketing should _NOT_ occur unless > >> >> >there was some sort of 'harm' to another. Meaning that, someone had to > >> >> >take evasive action, brake, etc and so on. > > >> >> >The vast majority of moving violations seem to be things the cops > >> >> >themselves do on a daily basis and have zero impact on anyone. (like > >> >> >'speeding' or a rolling right on red when the cross traffic green left > >> >> >turn arrows are lit) > > >> >> As a moments reflection makes clear, the ONLY reason the laws are > >> >> written as they are is precisely so that cops do NOT have to be able > >> >> to demonstrate there was any impact. *that's why they have gotten rid > >> >> of the logical standard of "speed not reasonable and prudent" which > >> >> would have required producing evidence to making "exceeding the posted > >> >> speed limit is prima facsa (yeah it's spelled wrong) evidence of speed > >> >> not reasonable and prudent. *That eliminates the need to demonstrate > >> >> ANY harm or impact. *It's completely divorced from logic and fairness. > >> >> It's also why they made most speeding a civil offense so they could > >> >> dispense with most of your legal protections. *You can't even subpoena > >> >> what YOU think is important to your defense, you can only get what the > >> >> judge thinks you need. The same person who rules on your guilt or > >> >> innocence also controls what evidence you may use to prove your > >> >> innocence.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >Maybe you should advise all the states that their 'speed too fast for > >> >conditions' citations are no good. *You can get a ticket doing 40 when > >> >the posted is 65 when the road is iced over. > > >> >Harry K > > >> To issue a speed too fast under that statute they have to have some > >> EVIDENCE that it was too fast. *My point exactly.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Except this state does not have a "statue" 'speed to fast'...it is > >part of the neg drive or reck drive statutes and can be cited without > >a "crash". *Anyone who thinks that doing something like 70 in heavy > >fog or icy roads needs more than that... *Yes, I had instances of both > >while I was dispatching. > > >Harry K > > that's still evidence based. * A cop who cited you for going to fast > in heavy fog when there was no fog would potentially have a problem in > court assuming it wasn't the usual kangaroo court.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well duh! Harry K |
#94
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Speed cameras cause panic braking....
gpsman wrote:
> Q: What prevents a driver from not panic braking at the sight of a > speed camera...? > > A: Nothing. Methinks we've discovered another of Carl Taylor's nyms. |
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