300M timing belt replacement

Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon. The dealer --
which is no longer a Chrysler dealer -- quoted me $750 to replace the
timing belt and water pump, presumably using over-priced "genuine Mopar"
parts.

The parts at AutoZone are less than $200, but, having read through the
relevant section of the service manual, I don't think this is a job I
want to tackle myself. Am I overestimating the difficulty?

What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?

Perce

On Jun 30, 11:01*am, "Percival P. Cassidy" >
wrote:
> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon. The dealer --
> which is no longer a Chrysler dealer -- quoted me $750 to replace the
> timing belt and water pump, presumably using over-priced "genuine Mopar"
> parts.
>
> The parts at AutoZone are less than $200, but, having read through the
> relevant section of the service manual, I don't think this is a job I
> want to tackle myself. Am I overestimating the difficulty?
>
> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
>
> Perce

I just had my Stratus done recently. Alot of the cost was in parts.
There was an upgrade to the belt tensioner from 2003 that was
included. This also required that the timing belt covers be replaced
too.

If your 300M only needs the belt and water pump, $750 seems high to
me.

-KM

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon. The dealer --
> which is no longer a Chrysler dealer -- quoted me $750 to replace the
> timing belt and water pump, presumably using over-priced "genuine Mopar"
> parts.
>
> The parts at AutoZone are less than $200, but, having read through the
> relevant section of the service manual, I don't think this is a job I
> want to tackle myself. Am I overestimating the difficulty?
>
> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
>
> Perce

Actually, for a dealer, it isn't too far out of line - depending on
exactly what is being replaced (probably not much - keep reading).

I had my 3.2 (same exact engine as your 3.5, just different bore/piston
size) done about 3 years ago. I purchased my own OEM parts from an
on-line discount dealer (30% below list plus actual shipping vs. list
+20 or 30% plus sales tax from a local dealer) - total parts was about
$360. I included belt, water pump, tensioner pulley, hydraulic
tensioner (which alone is almost $100), both accessory belts, both
radiator hoses, and thermostat (a bear to replace on these cars).

Took the parts to an independent shop that frankly underbid the job at
$300 flat rate (should have been probably $400-450).

So I got by for about $700 total parts + labor.

Two things to consider:
(1) Most likely your dealer isn't including the hydraulic tensioner for
that price (most people re-use the old one, and frankly, they very
seldom give problems) - but make darn sure you have the timing belt
tensioner *pulley* replaced - that *is* a finite-life part. Nor will
they include the accessory belts, radiator hoses, and t-stat unless you
pay more.
(2) Whether you have the dealer do it, or an independent shop do it, or
DIY, I *highly* recommend using OEM parts for the belt and the water
pump. I hang out on three LH car-specific forums, and there is story
after story after story on the belt pitch accuracy/length being off
enough to require re-timing of the cam sprockets (requires special tool
- no substitute or makeshift tool for this particular tool) *and* the
water pumps failing very early and/or not fitting right - and those
problems were even with the Gates parts that everybody (including
myself) usually swears by).

So you have to decide: Go with that price knowing you'll get OEM parts,
but you will not get new rad. hoses, t-stat, or hydraulic t-belt
tensioner, or get your own OEM parts from a good online discount dealer,
like www.mopardiscountparts.com (yes - they are still in business - 30%
below list - no gimmicks) and end up replacing a lot more critical parts
for the same $$ if you can get a good independent shop to accept your
parts and just charge labor (probably about $400-450).

And I repeat: on this particular job, do not use aftermarket parts -
even Gates (except accessory belts and hoses). T-stat: OEM - gets
installed pointing towards engine - which is opposite of the factory
t-stat (different design) - if someone doesn't believe me, have them
check the FSM. Many people on the LH car forums did the opposite and
had overheating problems - turned it around: good to go.

You can knock about $80 of the parts prices I gave if you re-use your
old hydraulic tensioner (not the tensioner pulley, the hydraulic
tensioner), and that would be an OK tradeoff - like I said, that
particular part is pretty reliable and long-lived.

Come see us at http://300mclub.org/forums/index.php?

FWIW . . .

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

"Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
...
> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon. The dealer --
> which is no longer a Chrysler dealer -- quoted me $750 to replace the
> timing belt and water pump, presumably using over-priced "genuine Mopar"
> parts.
>
> The parts at AutoZone are less than $200, but, having read through the
> relevant section of the service manual, I don't think this is a job I want
> to tackle myself. Am I overestimating the difficulty?
>
> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
>

I just replaced the tensioner and belt myself in my 94 T&C AWD. The most
difficult
part about the job was figuring out how to get at the tensioner bolt, it
took an hour
or two of false starts. The service manual was not helpful and all the
online posts
assume non-AWD and tell you to use long extensions and u-joints and such
nonsense.

I ended up simply using a standard wrench and reaching up in there and doing
it by feel.
Of course I had to flip the wrench back and forth 50 times or so since I
could only
move the nut a few degrees. I have gear wrenches but they wouldn't have
helped here.

If I had gone into the job knowing the trick it would have been 2 hours,
tops, in
the driveway.

Total on parts was a bit less than $100. I've done a water pump before on
that
van and it's easy.

$750 sounds way high to me. However, since the economy is not doing well
right now,
a lot of people are having older cars fixed rather than scrapped, and most
mechanics
have plenty of work, and can pick and choose - hence the higher price.

Ted

In article >,
"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:

> "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon.
<snip>
> > What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
> >
>
> I just replaced the tensioner and belt myself in my 94 T&C AWD.
> the driveway.
<snip>

Different chassis, different engine, different belt,
different-different-different.

Of course you think $750 is too high... you have no idea what you're
talking about.

aarcuda69062 wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
>
>> "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon.
> <snip>
>>> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
>>>
>> I just replaced the tensioner and belt myself in my 94 T&C AWD.
>> the driveway.
> <snip>
>
> Different chassis, different engine, different belt,
> different-different-different.
>
> Of course you think $750 is too high... you have no idea what you're
> talking about.

I think you'll agree that my post is apples to apples.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

In article >,
Bill Putney > wrote:

> aarcuda69062 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon.
> > <snip>
> >>> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
> >>>
> >> I just replaced the tensioner and belt myself in my 94 T&C AWD.
> >> the driveway.
> > <snip>
> >
> > Different chassis, different engine, different belt,
> > different-different-different.
> >
> > Of course you think $750 is too high... you have no idea what you're
> > talking about.
>
> I think you'll agree that my post is apples to apples.

No problem at all with your post Bill. Very accurate and to the point.

On the other hand, Ted seems to have a severe case of "I changed a belt
once."

On Jul 1, 6:06*am, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
> In article >,
> *Bill Putney > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > aarcuda69062 wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > *"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
>
> > >> "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >>> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon.
> > > <snip>
> > >>> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?
>
> > >> I just replaced the tensioner and belt myself in my 94 T&C AWD.
> > >> the driveway.
> > > <snip>
>
> > > Different chassis, different engine, different belt,
> > > different-different-different.
>
> > > Of course you think $750 is too high... *you have no idea what you're
> > > talking about.
>
> > I think you'll agree that my post is apples to apples.
>
> No problem at all with your post Bill. *Very accurate and to the point.
>
> On the other hand, Ted seems to have a severe case of "I changed a belt
> once."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ted was describing serpentine belt tensioner change on what is most
likely a 3.3 or 3.8.

My 1993 is on it's 3rd one. I am hoping to be able to change it myself
next time, so Ted's post had some use for me.

The 3.3/3.8 using a timing chain, so it is probably good until the
engine needs rebuilding.

-KM

KirkM wrote:

>> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon. The dealer --
>> which is no longer a Chrysler dealer -- quoted me $750 to replace the
>> timing belt and water pump, presumably using over-priced "genuine Mopar"
>> parts.
>>
>> The parts at AutoZone are less than $200, but, having read through the
>> relevant section of the service manual, I don't think this is a job I
>> want to tackle myself. Am I overestimating the difficulty?
>>
>> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?

> I just had my Stratus done recently. Alot of the cost was in parts.
> There was an upgrade to the belt tensioner from 2003 that was
> included. This also required that the timing belt covers be replaced
> too.

I hope you have better luck with yours than we had with ours. Our '96
Stratus ES (6-cyl. Mitsu****ty engine) had had its timing belt replaced
(allegedly) when the water pump was replaced at about 55K miles. At 85K
the belt broke and the vehicle was deemed to be not worth fixing.
Several people have suggested that the problem was that they did not
replace the idler puller and/or tensioner when they replaced the belt --
if indeed they did replace the belt.

> If your 300M only needs the belt and water pump, $750 seems high to
> me.

Maybe they were including replacing the pulley and tensioner.

BTW, Autozone does not sell replacement tensioners for the 300M, so I
wasn't including that item in my cost of parts. And I hadn't thought
about the thermostat and hoses and other belts.

Perce

On Jul 1, 8:53*am, "Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote:
> KirkM wrote:
> >> Our '02 300M is due to have its timing belt replaced soon. The dealer --
> >> which is no longer a Chrysler dealer -- quoted me $750 to replace the
> >> timing belt and water pump, presumably using over-priced "genuine Mopar"
> >> parts.
>
> >> The parts at AutoZone are less than $200, but, having read through the
> >> relevant section of the service manual, I don't think this is a job I
> >> want to tackle myself. Am I overestimating the difficulty?

>
> >> What is a reasonable price to have this job done by an independent shop?

------- Snip ---------------------------------------------

> I hope you have better luck with yours than we had with ours. Our '96
> Stratus ES (6-cyl. Mitsu****ty engine) had had its timing belt replaced
> (allegedly) when the water pump was replaced at about 55K miles. At 85K
> the belt broke and the vehicle was deemed to be not worth fixing.
> Several people have suggested that the problem was that they did not
> replace the idler puller and/or tensioner when they replaced the belt --
> if indeed they did replace the belt.

When I bought both my Stratus and Cirrus, I steered clear of the 2.5,
based on the
info posted on this NG. The Stratus has an early 2.4, so I had to have
the head gasket
replaced using the extended warranty that I had.

The water pump started leaking, so it made sense to replace the timing
belt at the same time.

------- Snip------------------------------------------------

-KM