1993 Mazda Protege' has no spark?

Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
start. Today I looked at it and it turns over fine, but I couldn't get
a spark out of the coil. The Haynes manual said the resistance should
be 0.83-0.99 Ohm on the secondary. I read 1.3 Ohm on the secondary.
The primary was 13.3 KOhm with the spec about 11-16 KOhm. I am getting
positive voltage at the coil.

Could the ignition system have been damaged by the use of
electric-based welding?
What is the Ignitor? How does one check that component? What about
the Ignition Control Module?
Having the secondary winding on the coil be off by 0.3 Ohms indicate a
bad coil?
Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Yes the gas tank is full.

jc

"coldje" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> start. Today I looked at it and it turns over fine, but I couldn't get
> a spark out of the coil. The Haynes manual said the resistance should
> be 0.83-0.99 Ohm on the secondary. I read 1.3 Ohm on the secondary.
> The primary was 13.3 KOhm with the spec about 11-16 KOhm. I am getting
> positive voltage at the coil.

Uhmmm, the secondary winding should be the one with high resistance and the
primary should be much lower resistance than the secondary. I don't have a
manual with the specs handy, but the measurements you gave sound about right
if you meant the PRIMARY was 1.3 Ohms, and the SECONDARY was 13.3 K Ohms.

>
> Could the ignition system have been damaged by the use of
> electric-based welding?

Maybe.

> What is the Ignitor? How does one check that component? What about
> the Ignition Control Module?

Whoa... slow down. One thing at a time. There are test procedures for those
components, but I don't think I could walk you through them via e-mail. I
can't type for that long at a time. <grin> Unless you have a good repair
manual and are pretty handy at electronic diagnostics, I would have to
recomend letting a professional trouble shoot those items. Maybe Don has
some sugestions. He is good at coming up with some simple DIY tests. He
posts here pretty often so I'll let him chime in on this one if he can.

> Having the secondary winding on the coil be off by 0.3 Ohms indicate a
> bad coil?

I doubt it.

> Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Yes the gas tank is full.
>
> jc
>

I have heard of arc welding on a car causing damage to electronic
components, but I have never experienced it first hand. I guess it is
possible, but I know it doesn't always happen. On the other hand, electronic
components have been know to fail unexpectedly and without any apparent
cause. Even if the muffler shop did cause the problem I doubt that there
would be any way to prove it.

Your measurements of the coil are close enough to specs (other than you have
the secondary mixed up with the primary) that I don't believe you have found
any evidence that the coil is bad. Of course, that doesn't mean it is good
either. Coils can pass resistance checks and still not function properly.

If the arc welding caused any problems it would more than likely be to a
module or electronic component rather than the coil. About the best advise
I can offer is to have someone with experience on your model and the right
equipment run through the proper diagnostic routines for a no start problem.
You are likely to be replacing some expensive parts on a guess otherwise.

Good luck,

--
Disclaimer:
Due to the nature of solving problems over the internet being mostly
guesswork,
please do not consider the above recommendations as the only possible
solutions.

--
Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

"coldje" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> start. Today I looked at it and it turns over fine, but I couldn't get
> a spark out of the coil. The Haynes manual said the resistance should
> be 0.83-0.99 Ohm on the secondary. I read 1.3 Ohm on the secondary.
> The primary was 13.3 KOhm with the spec about 11-16 KOhm. I am getting
> positive voltage at the coil.

FWIW my brother had the same thing happen in his 94 323. It died while
driving and had no spark. The ECU threw a code which was something along
the lines of no spark signal. After a little research online it seemed this
pointed to the cam position sensor, which is built into the distributor. It
was his winter beater so after replacing the distributor with one from a
salvage yard it was good to go again.

Obviously your problem could be caused by any number of other things, but
hopefully this helps you in tracking it down.

You can take the ICM off and get it tested as some auto parts stores
for free. If you're in Canada, Parts Source, a Canadian Tire subsidiary
does it for free. If it fails call around because retail prices vary by
100%. For more info on replacing0 one yourself look in
www.ncf.ca/~ag384/Cars.htm.

JM wrote:
> "coldje" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> > replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> > muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> > start. Today I looked at it and it turns over fine, but I couldn't get
> > a spark out of the coil. The Haynes manual said the resistance should
> > be 0.83-0.99 Ohm on the secondary. I read 1.3 Ohm on the secondary.
> > The primary was 13.3 KOhm with the spec about 11-16 KOhm. I am getting
> > positive voltage at the coil.
>
> FWIW my brother had the same thing happen in his 94 323. It died while
> driving and had no spark. The ECU threw a code which was something along
> the lines of no spark signal. After a little research online it seemed this
> pointed to the cam position sensor, which is built into the distributor. It
> was his winter beater so after replacing the distributor with one from a
> salvage yard it was good to go again.
>
> Obviously your problem could be caused by any number of other things, but
> hopefully this helps you in tracking it down.

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I've heard from two sources
that it might be worth replacing the distributor. I know a local
salvage yard has a newly acquired Protege about the same year. On
Monday, I'll see how much they want for a used distributor. Now, I
don't think it is the coil. The only other part it could be is the
Igniter. Neither Autozone or Checker can test it. Hmm....


coldje wrote:
> Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> start. Today I looked at it and it turns over fine, but I couldn't get
> a spark out of the coil. The Haynes manual said the resistance should
> be 0.83-0.99 Ohm on the secondary. I read 1.3 Ohm on the secondary.
> The primary was 13.3 KOhm with the spec about 11-16 KOhm. I am getting
> positive voltage at the coil.
>
> Could the ignition system have been damaged by the use of
> electric-based welding?
> What is the Ignitor? How does one check that component? What about
> the Ignition Control Module?
> Having the secondary winding on the coil be off by 0.3 Ohms indicate a
> bad coil?
> Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Yes the gas tank is full.
>
> jc

"coldje" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thank you to everyone who has responded. I've heard from two sources
> that it might be worth replacing the distributor. I know a local
> salvage yard has a newly acquired Protege about the same year. On
> Monday, I'll see how much they want for a used distributor. Now, I
> don't think it is the coil. The only other part it could be is the
> Igniter. Neither Autozone or Checker can test it. Hmm....

It's not always a piece part that's at fault. Before springing for a
replacement distributor, you might make a couple of diagnostic checks.

Since you made the resistance measurements, I assume you're familiar with
the use of a multimeter. Did you verify that you have +12v at the coil (+)
terminal? If not, look into the wiring, fuses, ignition switch etc.

And also check the voltage at the coil (-) terminal while cranking. It would
normally be about half the battery voltage. A reading of +12v indicates that
the module's not firing, whether because it's bad or not getting the right
inputs.

FWIW

coldje wrote:
> Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> start.

> Could the ignition system have been damaged by the use of
> electric-based welding?

Yes, and I have a feeling it was. Of course the muffler shop had the
good sense to disconect the negative terminal of the battery, as is
the normal practice before welding on a car, right?

> What is the Ignitor? How does one check that component? What about
> the Ignition Control Module?

"Ignitor" is what many Japanese car makers call the ignition control
module.

www.autozone.com has repair information about some cars, but if yours
isn't listed, check a comparable year Ford Escort with 1.8L engine,
which has the same engine and fuel and ignition systems.

Hmm....I *know* they didn't disconnect the negative terminal of the
battery while welding on it because the car was running the entire time
they were welding on it. The problem was discovered when they brought
the vehicle off the hoist, turned it off, and then tried to start it
again to drive it off the hoist.

jc

wrote:
> coldje wrote:
> > Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> > replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> > muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> > start.
>
> > Could the ignition system have been damaged by the use of
> > electric-based welding?
>
> Yes, and I have a feeling it was. Of course the muffler shop had the
> good sense to disconect the negative terminal of the battery, as is
> the normal practice before welding on a car, right?
>
> > What is the Ignitor? How does one check that component? What about
> > the Ignition Control Module?
>
> "Ignitor" is what many Japanese car makers call the ignition control
> module.
>
> www.autozone.com has repair information about some cars, but if yours
> isn't listed, check a comparable year Ford Escort with 1.8L engine,
> which has the same engine and fuel and ignition systems.

In the end, it was the distributor. $195 for a new distributor from
Awto Bahagi in California. The car started right up as soon as I
installed it.

jc

coldje wrote:
> Took my 1993 Protege to a muffler shop for repair. The shop ended up
> replacing most of the old exhaust system, including a new cat and
> muffler. When they brought the vehicle off the hoist, it wouldn't
> start. Today I looked at it and it turns over fine, but I couldn't get
> a spark out of the coil. The Haynes manual said the resistance should
> be 0.83-0.99 Ohm on the secondary. I read 1.3 Ohm on the secondary.
> The primary was 13.3 KOhm with the spec about 11-16 KOhm. I am getting
> positive voltage at the coil.
>
> Could the ignition system have been damaged by the use of
> electric-based welding?
> What is the Ignitor? How does one check that component? What about
> the Ignition Control Module?
> Having the secondary winding on the coil be off by 0.3 Ohms indicate a
> bad coil?
> Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Yes the gas tank is full.
>
> jc