Car Buying Advice

The message <GryCf.14071$JT.2694@fed1read06>
from "Ian S" > contains these words:

> The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.

Given the amount garages charge to change belts, I worked out the other
day that the wife's Clio should have a pound put aside for every tank of
fuel just for cambelts.
That's why I do it myself! The A100 is due this summer, but at least
that's easy to get to.

--
Skipweasel
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.

"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Ian S wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > >
> > > Dennis W wrote:
> > > > Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
> > >
> > > People who change out the belts on schedule don't have problems.
> >
> > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
>
> It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
> some.

Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?

> > And
> > > seals? Seal leaks are not limited to just Audi. LOTS of car makers
> > > have seal issues.
> >
> > Pehaps, but not many have the seal problem at 50,000 to 60,000 miles
that
> > the A4 30 valve 2.8 V6 does.
>
> This "problem" is hardly above what you'd expect from the volume of
> cars produced.

What a crock! I've NEVER had a car's cam seals leak oil at 50,000 miles like
my A4 did. And I'm not alone - just check over at audiworld.com.

>
> But hey, when you have an axe to grind, one example constitutes a
> "fatal flaw."
>
> But really, there's a great solution: don't buy an Audi.

Works for me. After 20 years of Audi ownership, I WON'T be buying another.

Ian S wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Ian S wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Dennis W wrote:
> > > > > Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
> > > >
> > > > People who change out the belts on schedule don't have problems.
> > >
> > > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
> >
> > It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
> > some.
>
> Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?

Not many, UNLESS you go to a stealership. Then it's "most of them."

The "typical" A4 TB change is not $1000.

> > > And
> > > > seals? Seal leaks are not limited to just Audi. LOTS of car makers
> > > > have seal issues.
> > >
> > > Pehaps, but not many have the seal problem at 50,000 to 60,000 miles
> that
> > > the A4 30 valve 2.8 V6 does.
> >
> > This "problem" is hardly above what you'd expect from the volume of
> > cars produced.
>
> What a crock! I've NEVER had a car's cam seals leak oil at 50,000 miles like
> my A4 did. And I'm not alone - just check over at audiworld.com.

What, ten people complain at Audiworld, and it's an endemic problem?

No. Go to other fora and read for yourself that seals do leak in other
makes.

> > But hey, when you have an axe to grind, one example constitutes a
> > "fatal flaw."
> >
> > But really, there's a great solution: don't buy an Audi.
>
> Works for me. After 20 years of Audi ownership, I WON'T be buying another.

Great. I'll keep on picking them up, because these problems don't seem
to happen to my Audis. Maybe you're just making it all up?



E.P.

Guy King wrote:
> The message <GryCf.14071$JT.2694@fed1read06>
> from "Ian S" > contains these words:
>
> > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
>
> Given the amount garages charge to change belts, I worked out the other
> day that the wife's Clio should have a pound put aside for every tank of
> fuel just for cambelts.
> That's why I do it myself! The A100 is due this summer, but at least
> that's easy to get to.

Yup. Changing ANY car's belt these days is expensive. And really
damned expensive at a dealer.

Mercedes, BMW - they don't get away any cheaper. Heck, even a VW is
steep.

E.P.

"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Ian S wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > >
> > > Ian S wrote:
> > > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > > oups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis W wrote:
> > > > > > Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
> > > > >
> > > > > People who change out the belts on schedule don't have problems.
> > > >
> > > > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
> > >
> > > It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
> > > some.
> >
> > Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?
>
> Not many, UNLESS you go to a stealership. Then it's "most of them."

Hardly. Google and you'll find the typical cost even for something like a
Lexus is under $500. And yes, that's at a dealer.
>
> The "typical" A4 TB change is not $1000.

Sez you. I have a receipt showing over $800 for mine done at an independent
German car shop NOT at a dealer. The dealer will charge well over $1000.
>
> > > > And
> > > > > seals? Seal leaks are not limited to just Audi. LOTS of car
makers
> > > > > have seal issues.
> > > >
> > > > Pehaps, but not many have the seal problem at 50,000 to 60,000 miles
> > that
> > > > the A4 30 valve 2.8 V6 does.
> > >
> > > This "problem" is hardly above what you'd expect from the volume of
> > > cars produced.
> >
> > What a crock! I've NEVER had a car's cam seals leak oil at 50,000 miles
like
> > my A4 did. And I'm not alone - just check over at audiworld.com.
>
> What, ten people complain at Audiworld, and it's an endemic problem?
>
> No. Go to other fora and read for yourself that seals do leak in other
> makes.

Not at 50,000 miles they don't.
>
> > > But hey, when you have an axe to grind, one example constitutes a
> > > "fatal flaw."
> > >
> > > But really, there's a great solution: don't buy an Audi.
> >
> > Works for me. After 20 years of Audi ownership, I WON'T be buying
another.
>
> Great. I'll keep on picking them up, because these problems don't seem
> to happen to my Audis.

Your attitude gives me great reason to hope there'll be some idiot willing
to pay me top dollar for my A4 when the time comes for me to sell it.

>Maybe you're just making it all up?

and maybe you're the Queen of D'Nile


>
>
> E.P.
>

Ian S wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Ian S wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Ian S wrote:
> > > > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > > > oups.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dennis W wrote:
> > > > > > > Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People who change out the belts on schedule don't have problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
> > > > some.
> > >
> > > Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?
> >
> > Not many, UNLESS you go to a stealership. Then it's "most of them."
>
> Hardly. Google and you'll find the typical cost even for something like a
> Lexus is under $500. And yes, that's at a dealer.
> >
> > The "typical" A4 TB change is not $1000.
>
> Sez you. I have a receipt showing over $800 for mine done at an independent
> German car shop NOT at a dealer. The dealer will charge well over $1000.

Last time I checked, $800 is not equal to $1000.

So, a "typical" TB change is not $1000. Just admit you were
exaggerating and be done with it.

> > > > > And
> > > > > > seals? Seal leaks are not limited to just Audi. LOTS of car
> makers
> > > > > > have seal issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pehaps, but not many have the seal problem at 50,000 to 60,000 miles
> > > that
> > > > > the A4 30 valve 2.8 V6 does.
> > > >
> > > > This "problem" is hardly above what you'd expect from the volume of
> > > > cars produced.
> > >
> > > What a crock! I've NEVER had a car's cam seals leak oil at 50,000 miles
> like
> > > my A4 did. And I'm not alone - just check over at audiworld.com.
> >
> > What, ten people complain at Audiworld, and it's an endemic problem?
> >
> > No. Go to other fora and read for yourself that seals do leak in other
> > makes.
>
> Not at 50,000 miles they don't.

Yes, they do. On a minority of cars (exactly like Audi), but such
examples exist.

> > > > But hey, when you have an axe to grind, one example constitutes a
> > > > "fatal flaw."
> > > >
> > > > But really, there's a great solution: don't buy an Audi.
> > >
> > > Works for me. After 20 years of Audi ownership, I WON'T be buying
> another.
> >
> > Great. I'll keep on picking them up, because these problems don't seem
> > to happen to my Audis.
>
> Your attitude gives me great reason to hope there'll be some idiot willing
> to pay me top dollar for my A4 when the time comes for me to sell it.

And after you've fixed it's relatively minor problems, someone is going
to get a decent deal on a car that will last a long time. Everybody
wins! Well, except you. You get to suck up all the depreciation.
Thanks!

> >Maybe you're just making it all up?
>
> and maybe you're the Queen of D'Nile

I don't have to exaggerate to make my point.

E.P.

Ed Pirrero wrote:
> Guy King wrote:
>
>>The message <GryCf.14071$JT.2694@fed1read06>
>>from "Ian S" > contains these words:
>>
>>
>>>The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
>>
>>Given the amount garages charge to change belts, I worked out the other
>>day that the wife's Clio should have a pound put aside for every tank of
>>fuel just for cambelts.
>>That's why I do it myself! The A100 is due this summer, but at least
>>that's easy to get to.
>
>
> Yup. Changing ANY car's belt these days is expensive. And really
> damned expensive at a dealer.
>
> Mercedes, BMW - they don't get away any cheaper. Heck, even a VW is
> steep.
>
> E.P.
>
Ok, don't believe me. Check JD Powers, Edmunds, Kelly Blue book ratings.
All say Audi is below average for reliability. That's what comes with a
car that is well above average in performance and handing.

"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ian S wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > >
> > > Ian S wrote:
> > > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > > oups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian S wrote:
> > > > > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > > > > oups.com...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dennis W wrote:
> > > > > > > > Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > People who change out the belts on schedule don't have
problems.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
> > > > > some.
> > > >
> > > > Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?
> > >
> > > Not many, UNLESS you go to a stealership. Then it's "most of them."
> >
> > Hardly. Google and you'll find the typical cost even for something like
a
> > Lexus is under $500. And yes, that's at a dealer.
> > >
> > > The "typical" A4 TB change is not $1000.
> >
> > Sez you. I have a receipt showing over $800 for mine done at an
independent
> > German car shop NOT at a dealer. The dealer will charge well over $1000.
>
> Last time I checked, $800 is not equal to $1000.
>
> So, a "typical" TB change is not $1000. Just admit you were
> exaggerating and be done with it.

Except I'm not typical. I was planning to do it myself as I have the
expertise but, due to time constraints, shopped around to find an
independent garage that specialized in Audis. The typical A4 owner would
have it done at the dealer and pay at least $1,000.

The fact of the matter is that the A4 suffers from a variety of problems
including TB failure (even a class-action lawsuit), control arm failure, oil
leaks, cooling system problems, coil problems - the list is long and the
repairs fairly costly. Some like the coil fiasco have been rectified and
newer models may not suffer from the ailments of the previous models.

I notice that nowhere have you claimed to actually own an A4 so perhaps we
should take your pontificating about the A4's reliability with the
proverbial grain of salt.

Ian S wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>Ian S wrote:
>>
>>>"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Ian S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
glegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ian S wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
ooglegroups.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Dennis W wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>People who change out the belts on schedule don't have
>
> problems.
>
>>>>>>>The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
>>>>>>some.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?
>>>>
>>>>Not many, UNLESS you go to a stealership. Then it's "most of them."
>>>
>>>Hardly. Google and you'll find the typical cost even for something like
>
> a
>
>>>Lexus is under $500. And yes, that's at a dealer.
>>>
>>>>The "typical" A4 TB change is not $1000.
>>>
>>>Sez you. I have a receipt showing over $800 for mine done at an
>
> independent
>
>>>German car shop NOT at a dealer. The dealer will charge well over $1000.
>>
>>Last time I checked, $800 is not equal to $1000.
>>
>>So, a "typical" TB change is not $1000. Just admit you were
>>exaggerating and be done with it.
>
>
> Except I'm not typical. I was planning to do it myself as I have the
> expertise but, due to time constraints, shopped around to find an
> independent garage that specialized in Audis. The typical A4 owner would
> have it done at the dealer and pay at least $1,000.
>
> The fact of the matter is that the A4 suffers from a variety of problems
> including TB failure (even a class-action lawsuit), control arm failure, oil
> leaks, cooling system problems, coil problems - the list is long and the
> repairs fairly costly. Some like the coil fiasco have been rectified and
> newer models may not suffer from the ailments of the previous models.
>
> I notice that nowhere have you claimed to actually own an A4 so perhaps we
> should take your pontificating about the A4's reliability with the
> proverbial grain of salt.
>
>
So True

Ian S wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Ian S wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Ian S wrote:
> > > > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > > > oups.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ian S wrote:
> > > > > > > "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > oups.com...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dennis W wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Cam belt and seals are a common Audi problem. Very common!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > People who change out the belts on schedule don't have
> problems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The cost of the cam belt change on the A4 IS a problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It doesn't cost any more than a comparable car, and cost less than
> > > > > > some.
> > > > >
> > > > > Really? For which cars, does a TB change typically run over US$1000?
> > > >
> > > > Not many, UNLESS you go to a stealership. Then it's "most of them."
> > >
> > > Hardly. Google and you'll find the typical cost even for something like
> a
> > > Lexus is under $500. And yes, that's at a dealer.
> > > >
> > > > The "typical" A4 TB change is not $1000.
> > >
> > > Sez you. I have a receipt showing over $800 for mine done at an
> independent
> > > German car shop NOT at a dealer. The dealer will charge well over $1000.
> >
> > Last time I checked, $800 is not equal to $1000.
> >
> > So, a "typical" TB change is not $1000. Just admit you were
> > exaggerating and be done with it.
>
> Except I'm not typical. I was planning to do it myself as I have the
> expertise but, due to time constraints, shopped around to find an
> independent garage that specialized in Audis. The typical A4 owner would
> have it done at the dealer and pay at least $1,000.

This is different for Mercedes and BMW, how?

Lexus and Infiniti also have this sort of charge for TB replacement.

> The fact of the matter is that the A4 suffers from a variety of problems
> including TB failure (even a class-action lawsuit), control arm failure, oil
> leaks, cooling system problems, coil problems - the list is long and the
> repairs fairly costly. Some like the coil fiasco have been rectified and
> newer models may not suffer from the ailments of the previous models.

LOL. Yeah, pick some variety of faults, the same sorts and spectrum as
every other manufacturer, and claim somehow that Audi is different.
Good one.

> I notice that nowhere have you claimed to actually own an A4 so perhaps we
> should take your pontificating about the A4's reliability with the
> proverbial grain of salt.

2001 S4. Never so much as a hiccup. A fine car, and I'd own another.
Sold it for more than I purchased it for, in fact.

How's that crow taste, Ian?

E.P.