warranty/VW Customer Care

"Craig Faison" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Lost In Space/Woodchuck wrote:
>
>> May be under warranty, but the dealer is correct in that the trans must
>> be
>> removed first to check the clutch. I just did one last week on a Jetta
>> with
>> 30,000+ miles and VW paid for the clutch. If the clutch disc friction
>> material shows "NO" abnormal wear and the failure was the clutch plate or
>> other related part, then VW may very well pay for the repair. The one I
>> had
>> the clutch pressure plate was cracked. VW Customer Care, will not do
>> anything unless the cars apart and the cause is determined!
>
> Good to hear that they paid in this case.
>
> My concern is that I'm out $550 in labor plus the cost of a clutch if VW
> decides not to pay for mine. I can do it myself for the cost of the clutch
> and a few hours of cussing practice.
>
> The dealer insists that they have properly diagnosed it as not being a
> master or slave cylinder... does VW have any specific diagnostic to prove
> this, or am I hanging on a tech's (hopefully) educated guess here?
>
> thanks,
> Craig


Do you know the web site/group www.passatworld.com?

You might want to post the details of your problem on that site, lots of
helpful people there, someone might have some ideas.

"Craig Faison" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, C_S wrote:
>
>> The slave cylinder went in my 95 GLX at 26K miles. Not an uncommon
>> problem.
>> Intermittent, never leaked fluid, seems to have leaked as to let air in
>> when
>> it sat overnight. Stealer said "Needs a new clutch. $1200. Out of
>> warranty." I said: "Clutches don't fail at that low a mileage. Don't
>> do
>> any work, I'm coming to get the car." 15 minutes later I get a call back
>> "It's just the slave cylinder, we will cover under warranty."
>
> My thoughts/concerns exactly. I questioned how the dealer was able to
> determine that it was not a master/slave cylinder issue and was told that
> they have equipment to test whether the system is creating and holding
> pressure. I've never seen such a tool, but it seems like it would be a
> simple setup, so I'm not suprised to hear that it exists. I'm hoping
> Woodchuck replies to my question on that, as I'd like to hear from a VW
> tech whether such a tool and diagnostic protocol exists...

I'll look in my Bentley. A more detailed description of the problem might
help. What, exactly, do you mean that the clutch will not disengage
completely? Pedal goes to the floor but you cannot shift? Any strange
pedal feel? Is the problem intermittent? If so, when does it happen?

>> At any rate, even if it is the clutch, you may want to go afterrmarket as
>> an
>> upgrade, for what the labor will cost to replace.
>
> No question about that! $930 for a clutch kit... that's just funny.

Seriously, if you do not have an independent mechanic for the car, you need
to find one soon. I'm on my third VW. I've found there are some really
great independent VW mechanics. No bad ones that I know of, I guess you
gotta love the brand to specialize and you also have to be good to stay in
business. But the dealer service varies widely. Even if you can do mosts
tasks yourself, you will eventually need a good mechanic for the car. A
good one will save you both time and money. And its best to find one before
you really need him or her.

> I'm just not sure if I'm willing to take the $550 risk as to whether VW
> will pick up the cost or not.
>
>> With VWOA, there are a few buzzwords that might help:
>>
>> 1. "Original owner"
>> 2. "Properly maintained"
>> 3. "Maintained per VW's schedule"
>> 4. "Maintained by dealer"
>> 5. "This is my [second, third, fourth] VW"
>
> All true, though I'm ready to add "last" to statement #5. ;-)
>

#5 worked best for me when the heater core failed in my 95 after 10
years/100K miles (failed at 100,003 miles, to be exact--funny). VWOA
covered all parts and labor--$1500. But the best part of the story was
that I first took it to my indy mechanic for repair. He was the one who
told me to try to get VWOA to cover (even though he could have just fixed it
and charged me for it). "There was a recall for this on the 94's, your
build date is November 94, maybe they will cover."

Isn't there any good mechanics in your area that are NOT VW dealership
employees? VW charges an arm and a leg for everything they do.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, C_S wrote:

> I'll look in my Bentley. A more detailed description of the problem might
> help. What, exactly, do you mean that the clutch will not disengage
> completely? Pedal goes to the floor but you cannot shift? Any strange
> pedal feel? Is the problem intermittent? If so, when does it happen?

It acts exactly like a cable-clutch system would if the cable were
stretched. You have to force it into gear and basically shift as if the
clutch cable wasn't working. We've all learned how to shift without the
clutch in our old ratty VWs, right?

It happened Tuesday, but miraculously went away after just a couple of
minutes. It popped back up on Friday and there has been no change. The
dealer claims to have attempted to bleed the system and tested the
pressure. I'll do that myself before they go any further.

My first thought, since it 'came and went' once was that it was hydraulic.
Now that there has been no change after driving it 50 miles to the dealer
and them doing their thing, I'm thinking it may be mechanical - pressure
plate or throwout bearing I'd guess.

One thing that keeps me awake at night... The first time it happened, I
was pulling out of a parking lot with a fairly steep incline on the exit.
When I pulled over to tinker with it I was on flat ground. I pumped the
clutch pedal a bunch of times during that time and the problem went away.
The next time it happened, I had parked in my side driveway which is also
steep (I don't usually park on the steep portion) and the car was
nose-high just like pulling out of the parking lot the first time.

That leads me to suspect that the fluid level is low for whatever reason
and that it pumped air when the clutch was pushed in on the incline. Of
course, the dealer claims to have checked that, but it wouldn't be the
first time a dealer wasn't "on the level" with a customer.

> Seriously, if you do not have an independent mechanic for the car, you need
> to find one soon. I'm on my third VW. I've found there are some really
> great independent VW mechanics. No bad ones that I know of, I guess you
> gotta love the brand to specialize and you also have to be good to stay in
> business. But the dealer service varies widely. Even if you can do mosts
> tasks yourself, you will eventually need a good mechanic for the car. A
> good one will save you both time and money. And its best to find one before
> you really need him or her.

The only time I might "need" a mechanic is for the computer stuff that
only the dealer (or a well equipped independent) can do. Otherwise, there
isn't anything that I can't do. There is plenty that I don't want to do,
but I'm too much of a cheapskate to pay for what I can do at home. ;-)
Obviously, I need to send stuff out for machine work, but so do most
shops.

If I hadn't expected VW to fix it under warranty, I'd have just fixed it
myself in the first place... now that there's a chance that they might,
I'm sorta torn as to what to do.

Another big issue is time... I have a newborn (3 weeks) and a toddler -
spare time isn't very available right now. ;-)

> #5 worked best for me when the heater core failed in my 95 after 10
> years/100K miles (failed at 100,003 miles, to be exact--funny). VWOA
> covered all parts and labor--$1500. But the best part of the story was
> that I first took it to my indy mechanic for repair. He was the one who
> told me to try to get VWOA to cover (even though he could have just fixed it
> and charged me for it). "There was a recall for this on the 94's, your
> build date is November 94, maybe they will cover."

I sort of think that VW might cover this, but I'm just not sure if I'm
willing to take the $550 gamble. I'll have to sleep on it another night or
two...

thanks,
Craig

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Papa wrote:

> Isn't there any good mechanics in your area that are NOT VW dealership
> employees? VW charges an arm and a leg for everything they do.

Sure there are. A couple of them are even good friends of mine... but I
don't *need* someone else to fix it - I just *want* VW to fix it. ;-)

Craig

"Craig Faison" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, C_S wrote:
>
>> I'll look in my Bentley. A more detailed description of the problem
>> might
>> help. What, exactly, do you mean that the clutch will not disengage
>> completely? Pedal goes to the floor but you cannot shift? Any strange
>> pedal feel? Is the problem intermittent? If so, when does it happen?
>
> It acts exactly like a cable-clutch system would if the cable were
> stretched. You have to force it into gear and basically shift as if the
> clutch cable wasn't working. We've all learned how to shift without the
> clutch in our old ratty VWs, right?
>
> It happened Tuesday, but miraculously went away after just a couple of
> minutes. It popped back up on Friday and there has been no change. The
> dealer claims to have attempted to bleed the system and tested the
> pressure. I'll do that myself before they go any further.
>
> My first thought, since it 'came and went' once was that it was hydraulic.
> Now that there has been no change after driving it 50 miles to the dealer
> and them doing their thing, I'm thinking it may be mechanical - pressure
> plate or throwout bearing I'd guess.
>
> One thing that keeps me awake at night... The first time it happened, I
> was pulling out of a parking lot with a fairly steep incline on the exit.
> When I pulled over to tinker with it I was on flat ground. I pumped the
> clutch pedal a bunch of times during that time and the problem went away.
> The next time it happened, I had parked in my side driveway which is also
> steep (I don't usually park on the steep portion) and the car was
> nose-high just like pulling out of the parking lot the first time.
>
> That leads me to suspect that the fluid level is low for whatever reason
> and that it pumped air when the clutch was pushed in on the incline. Of
> course, the dealer claims to have checked that, but it wouldn't be the
> first time a dealer wasn't "on the level" with a customer.
>

That sounds like a clutch master or slave cylinder problem to me, esp. if it
happens after the car sits idle for a time. But my experience is limited
only to my single failure. The clutch shares its fluid with the brake
reservoir, so it is unlikely it is low on fluid.

"Craig Faison" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Papa wrote:
>
>> Isn't there any good mechanics in your area that are NOT VW dealership
>> employees? VW charges an arm and a leg for everything they do.
>
> Sure there are. A couple of them are even good friends of mine... but I
> don't *need* someone else to fix it - I just *want* VW to fix it. ;-)
>
> Craig
>
Well, good luck then.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, C_S wrote:

> That sounds like a clutch master or slave cylinder problem to me, esp. if it
> happens after the car sits idle for a time. But my experience is limited
> only to my single failure. The clutch shares its fluid with the brake
> reservoir, so it is unlikely it is low on fluid.

I didn't realize that the clutch and brakes shared the same reservoir -
there goes that theory. ;-) The fluid isn't low...

It didn't happen after a sit - in fact, both times were after a 75+ mile
drive. It's very odd to me that the first time the symptoms went away
almost immediately, but the next time there was no change during the 50
mile drive to the dealer.

I'm itching to get my hands on it to see what's going on, but I have to
wait to see what VWOA says first. I should have some details either way by
mid-week or so.

Craig

Craig Faison wrote:

> It acts exactly like a cable-clutch system would if the cable were
> stretched. You have to force it into gear and basically shift as if the
> clutch cable wasn't working. We've all learned how to shift without the
> clutch in our old ratty VWs, right?

It is is really like you describe, then I would say, that the clutch
itself is most probably ok.
There are not many ways it can go bad, and none of them causes such a
symptoms. Its is usually exact the opposite: the clutch slips if it or
its pressure plate springs are broken in any way.

I would bet, that there is a problem somewhere in a clutch release
mechanism: master or slave cylinder, or maybe some lever in gearbox.

> That leads me to suspect that the fluid level is low for whatever reason
> and that it pumped air when the clutch was pushed in on the incline. Of

I think it is literally impossible You will need some sort of anchor
in order to keep your car parked at _that_ angle

On 14 Nov 2005 wrote:

> It is is really like you describe, then I would say, that the clutch
> itself is most probably ok.

And I agree completely.

> There are not many ways it can go bad, and none of them causes such a
> symptoms. Its is usually exact the opposite: the clutch slips if it or
> its pressure plate springs are broken in any way.

Yep, good point.

> I would bet, that there is a problem somewhere in a clutch release
> mechanism: master or slave cylinder, or maybe some lever in gearbox.

I wouldn't expect it to be anything internal to the gearbox, but possibly
a lever involved with depressing the clutch for sure.

Again though, it all comes down to whether or not VWOA is willing to
commit to anything without the risk of spending $550 for them to take it
apart. I'll be placing the call shortly, but who knows how long it will
take to get anywhere.

Craig