Can oil & filters change cause enging fire?

The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire
yesterday causing total loss of the vehicle.
What is strange about this incident is that it happened
right after the oil change was done by one of the automotive
shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries
and other small car repairs. It actually happened just
minutes after I left their location and was driving back
home.
I understand that many things may cause engine fire, but
on the other hand it happened so immediately after the
oil change was performed, that it is very hard to believe
that it was purely coincidental.
The repair included air and oil filters change and engine
oil change. Shortly after I started on my way home, I felt
fain smell as if of burning oil. Ironically, the fact that
the oil change was just done made me complacent about
it - I thought it was some small spillage. When it became
stronger and visible smoke appeared, I stopped, cut the
engine, went out and opened the hood. Unfortunately, it
was too late: there was a lot of smoke and the left side
of the battery, closer to the engine was on fire and
dripped plastic. When the fire department arrived,
the whole of the engine compartment was burning.

Some questions I have: Could the oil and filters change
cause engine fire so soon after it was done?
I asked both the fire marshal's and the tow truck driver's
opinion. Both think that it is unlikely. They said that
it takes a lot to actually ignite oil even if it spilled
as a result of incompetent repair. Also, the firemen
succeeded extracting the oil probe after extinguishing the
fire and it seemed to indicate that there was oil in the
engine.
I did some web research on the year/model after I came
home and found out that there was indeed recall on 1999
Chrysler T&C back in 2002 related to increased incidents
of engine fires.
This is the recall description:
http://auto-recalls.justia.com/conte...NTRY-1999.html
Summary:
vehicle description: mini vans built with 3.3l and
3.8l engines have fuel rails with nitrole rubber
o-ring seals that can degrade over time. fuel leakage
from the underhood fuel injection fuel rail could result,
increasing the likelihood of a vehicle fire.

The problem is that this vehicle was with previous owner in
2002. I bought it in 2003.
I'm wondering if the recall-related repairs were
performed. Will the dealer, where routine service was done
at the time give me this information or should I call
Chrysler's recalls information line?
Do car manufacturers keep centralized database of
recall-related repairs done by VIN based on dealers'
information?

I apologize for the long post. - Wanted to give all
the facts. I'm not trying to put the blame on anybody -
just trying to understand what went wrong.
At this point I see a lot of my blame in all this - for not
researching the recall history and not checking what recall
repairs were actually done and most of all for not having
a fire extinguisher in the car...
But still I somehow have this lingering suspicion that some
blunder occurred during the oil & filters change which they
didn't tell me about - it all happened just too soon after it.

IP.

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, I.Pavlov wrote:

> The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire yesterday
> causing total loss of the vehicle. What is strange about this incident
> is that it happened right after the oil change was done by one of the
> automotive shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries and
> other small car repairs.

This isn't strange at all. It's completely predictable. Burger-flip
rejects at the quickie oil change place fail to tighten the oil filter
correctly, or overtighten/strip it, or spill oil (trans fluid, power
steering fluid) while filling it, or the low-quality oil filters they use
burst at the base/can seam. Oil hits exhaust manifold, ignites, and
there's your fire.

There's a reason the oil changes are so cheap and quick at those places:
They employ unskilled morons, and they rush the work.

> Summary:
> vehicle description: mini vans built with 3.3l and 3.8l engines have
> fuel rails with nitrole rubber o-ring seals that can degrade over time.
> fuel leakage from the underhood fuel injection fuel rail could result,
> increasing the likelihood of a vehicle fire.

....except that this recall would virtually certainly already have been
done on your '99 vehicle, and you didn't smell fuel, you smelled *oil*
burning.

> Will the dealer, where routine service was done
> at the time give me this information

Yes.

> Do car manufacturers keep centralized database of recall-related repairs
> done by VIN based on dealers' information?

Yes.

DS

Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, I.Pavlov wrote:
>
>
>>The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire yesterday
>>causing total loss of the vehicle. What is strange about this incident
>>is that it happened right after the oil change was done by one of the
>>automotive shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries and
>>other small car repairs.
>
>
> This isn't strange at all. It's completely predictable. Burger-flip
> rejects at the quickie oil change place fail to tighten the oil filter
> correctly, or overtighten/strip it, or spill oil (trans fluid, power
> steering fluid) while filling it, or the low-quality oil filters they use
> burst at the base/can seam...

....or gasket of old filter stays on engine, new filter gets
double-gasketed/doesn't seal...


> ...Oil hits exhaust manifold, ignites, and
> there's your fire.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

the only way the oil change place could have started the fire is by leaving a wrench
across the top of the battery and it arched out and caught fire

"I.Pavlov" wrote:

> The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire
> yesterday causing total loss of the vehicle.
> What is strange about this incident is that it happened
> right after the oil change was done by one of the automotive
> shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries
> and other small car repairs. It actually happened just
> minutes after I left their location and was driving back
> home.
> I understand that many things may cause engine fire, but
> on the other hand it happened so immediately after the
> oil change was performed, that it is very hard to believe
> that it was purely coincidental.
> The repair included air and oil filters change and engine
> oil change. Shortly after I started on my way home, I felt
> fain smell as if of burning oil. Ironically, the fact that
> the oil change was just done made me complacent about
> it - I thought it was some small spillage. When it became
> stronger and visible smoke appeared, I stopped, cut the
> engine, went out and opened the hood. Unfortunately, it
> was too late: there was a lot of smoke and the left side
> of the battery, closer to the engine was on fire and
> dripped plastic. When the fire department arrived,
> the whole of the engine compartment was burning.
>
> Some questions I have: Could the oil and filters change
> cause engine fire so soon after it was done?
> I asked both the fire marshal's and the tow truck driver's
> opinion. Both think that it is unlikely. They said that
> it takes a lot to actually ignite oil even if it spilled
> as a result of incompetent repair. Also, the firemen
> succeeded extracting the oil probe after extinguishing the
> fire and it seemed to indicate that there was oil in the
> engine.
> I did some web research on the year/model after I came
> home and found out that there was indeed recall on 1999
> Chrysler T&C back in 2002 related to increased incidents
> of engine fires.
> This is the recall description:
> http://auto-recalls.justia.com/conte...NTRY-1999.html
> Summary:
> vehicle description: mini vans built with 3.3l and
> 3.8l engines have fuel rails with nitrole rubber
> o-ring seals that can degrade over time. fuel leakage
> from the underhood fuel injection fuel rail could result,
> increasing the likelihood of a vehicle fire.
>
> The problem is that this vehicle was with previous owner in
> 2002. I bought it in 2003.
> I'm wondering if the recall-related repairs were
> performed. Will the dealer, where routine service was done
> at the time give me this information or should I call
> Chrysler's recalls information line?
> Do car manufacturers keep centralized database of
> recall-related repairs done by VIN based on dealers'
> information?
>
> I apologize for the long post. - Wanted to give all
> the facts. I'm not trying to put the blame on anybody -
> just trying to understand what went wrong.
> At this point I see a lot of my blame in all this - for not
> researching the recall history and not checking what recall
> repairs were actually done and most of all for not having
> a fire extinguisher in the car...
> But still I somehow have this lingering suspicion that some
> blunder occurred during the oil & filters change which they
> didn't tell me about - it all happened just too soon after it.
>
> IP.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:18:28 -0400, tim bur > wrote:

>the only way the oil change place could have started the fire is by leaving a wrench
>across the top of the battery and it arched out and caught fire

Definitely NOT the only way - and an EXTREMELY unlikely thing to
happen on today's vehicles.The batteries are generally so well
covered, particularly on Chryslers, that some rather extensive
dismantling is required to get to them.
And as stated before, a short would GENERALLY cause the vehicle to
misbehave by lowering the voltage to the ECM.
Not saying it is impossible - but saying it's the "only" way it could
happen is WAY off base.
>
>"I.Pavlov" wrote:
>
>> The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire
>> yesterday causing total loss of the vehicle.
>> What is strange about this incident is that it happened
>> right after the oil change was done by one of the automotive
>> shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries
>> and other small car repairs. It actually happened just
>> minutes after I left their location and was driving back
>> home.
>> I understand that many things may cause engine fire, but
>> on the other hand it happened so immediately after the
>> oil change was performed, that it is very hard to believe
>> that it was purely coincidental.
>> The repair included air and oil filters change and engine
>> oil change. Shortly after I started on my way home, I felt
>> fain smell as if of burning oil. Ironically, the fact that
>> the oil change was just done made me complacent about
>> it - I thought it was some small spillage. When it became
>> stronger and visible smoke appeared, I stopped, cut the
>> engine, went out and opened the hood. Unfortunately, it
>> was too late: there was a lot of smoke and the left side
>> of the battery, closer to the engine was on fire and
>> dripped plastic. When the fire department arrived,
>> the whole of the engine compartment was burning.
>>
>> Some questions I have: Could the oil and filters change
>> cause engine fire so soon after it was done?
>> I asked both the fire marshal's and the tow truck driver's
>> opinion. Both think that it is unlikely. They said that
>> it takes a lot to actually ignite oil even if it spilled
>> as a result of incompetent repair. Also, the firemen
>> succeeded extracting the oil probe after extinguishing the
>> fire and it seemed to indicate that there was oil in the
>> engine.
>> I did some web research on the year/model after I came
>> home and found out that there was indeed recall on 1999
>> Chrysler T&C back in 2002 related to increased incidents
>> of engine fires.
>> This is the recall description:
>> http://auto-recalls.justia.com/conte...NTRY-1999.html
>> Summary:
>> vehicle description: mini vans built with 3.3l and
>> 3.8l engines have fuel rails with nitrole rubber
>> o-ring seals that can degrade over time. fuel leakage
>> from the underhood fuel injection fuel rail could result,
>> increasing the likelihood of a vehicle fire.
>>
>> The problem is that this vehicle was with previous owner in
>> 2002. I bought it in 2003.
>> I'm wondering if the recall-related repairs were
>> performed. Will the dealer, where routine service was done
>> at the time give me this information or should I call
>> Chrysler's recalls information line?
>> Do car manufacturers keep centralized database of
>> recall-related repairs done by VIN based on dealers'
>> information?
>>
>> I apologize for the long post. - Wanted to give all
>> the facts. I'm not trying to put the blame on anybody -
>> just trying to understand what went wrong.
>> At this point I see a lot of my blame in all this - for not
>> researching the recall history and not checking what recall
>> repairs were actually done and most of all for not having
>> a fire extinguisher in the car...
>> But still I somehow have this lingering suspicion that some
>> blunder occurred during the oil & filters change which they
>> didn't tell me about - it all happened just too soon after it.
>>
>> IP.

"I.Pavlov" > wrote in message
news
>
> The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire
> yesterday causing total loss of the vehicle.

Oil on a hot engine WILL bust into flames... I set one on fire once while
spilling a little oil while add some to a super hot engine while on a road
trip ( no damage). Transmission fluid dripping onto the exhaust will start a
fire in no time (smoked a jeep that way). One of my Lady friends lost her 89
Caravan not to long ago when it bust into flames as she was driving done the
road... official listed cause from fire dept was oil leaking onto exhaust.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:33:21 -0400, nospam.clare.nce wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:18:28 -0400, tim bur > wrote:
>
>>the only way the oil change place could have started the fire is
>>by leaving a wrench
>>across the top of the battery and it arched out and caught fire
>
> Definitely NOT the only way - and an EXTREMELY unlikely thing to
> happen on today's vehicles.The batteries are generally so well
> covered, particularly on Chryslers, that some rather extensive
> dismantling is required to get to them.

Mine was 1999 Town & Country. The battery and air filter assembly
are very close together with the battery not covered from above.
As I mentioned in earlier posts in this thread, the first thing
I noticed after opening the hood is that there was fire and
dripping plastic on the left side of the battery, but the battery
itself wasn't destroyed or much damaged at this point. What was
surprising is that the air filter assembly just wasn't there as
if it burned first and the dripping plastic on the battery was
what remained of it. It all happened in a second or two - I
quickly closed the hood fearing that something will explode in
my face, but that was my impression. When I looked at the burned
engine compartment the next day, it confirmed my first impression:
air filter assembly including air intake tube was completely
burned down - nothing remained. It almost looks like the air filter
assembly was the first to catch fire and later on its plastic
and the battery burned. I talked to Chrysler tech and dealer's
service department and showed him the pictures. He said there
might be many reasons, the most likely one in his opinion being,
some disturbed wiring causing the short circuit.
It was mentioned in this thread that short circuit would cause
something to misbehave and be noticeable while I was still
driving, but the fact is that no warning lights were there, the
headlights were normal etc.. It looks all the more mysterious
to me, almost as if something flammable was left right under
the air filter lid or spilled nearby during repairs.
I also looked underneath the engine, under the vehicle -
no visible traces of fire there and the area where exhaust
pipes are leaving the engine block is not charred or burned
- it looks like it all started not there, but near air filter
and battery.

Chrysler tech I talked to also said that I should demand that
repair shop send their insurance claim adjuster to appraise
the damage and pay me for the loss of a vehicle.
He said that the case like this is exactly what they insure
against and the fact that it happened immediately after their
"repairs" is enough of a proof to allow to win the case against
them even if they refuse to file the claim.
He also said that I shouldn't even bother to investigate what
exactly ignited since the fact that it happened right after
they worked on the vehicle is enough. I think what he
said might be true - Chrysler repair department
probably has similar insurance and might have had similar cases. Also, I
think tech's opinion matches some opinions expressed in this thread. This
is probably the course I will follow.


> And as stated before, a short would GENERALLY cause the vehicle to
> misbehave by lowering the voltage to the ECM.
> Not saying it is impossible - but saying it's the "only" way it could
> happen is WAY off base.
>>
>>"I.Pavlov" wrote:
>>
....

>>> The engine in my 1999 Chrysler Town & Country caught fire
>>> yesterday causing total loss of the vehicle.
>>> What is strange about this incident is that it happened
>>> right after the oil change was done by one of the automotive
>>> shop chains, specializing in quick oil, tire, batteries
>>> and other small car repairs. It actually happened just
>>> minutes after I left their location and was driving back
>>> home.
>>> I understand that many things may cause engine fire, but
>>> on the other hand it happened so immediately after the
>>> oil change was performed, that it is very hard to believe
>>> that it was purely coincidental.
>>> The repair included air and oil filters change and engine
>>> oil change. Shortly after I started on my way home, I felt
>>> fain smell as if of burning oil. Ironically, the fact that
>>> the oil change was just done made me complacent about
>>> it - I thought it was some small spillage. When it became
>>> stronger and visible smoke appeared, I stopped, cut the
>>> engine, went out and opened the hood. Unfortunately, it
>>> was too late: there was a lot of smoke and the left side
>>> of the battery, closer to the engine was on fire and
>>> dripped plastic. When the fire department arrived,
>>> the whole of the engine compartment was burning.
>>>
>>> Some questions I have: Could the oil and filters change
>>> cause engine fire so soon after it was done?
>>> I asked both the fire marshal's and the tow truck driver's
>>> opinion. Both think that it is unlikely. They said that
>>> it takes a lot to actually ignite oil even if it spilled
>>> as a result of incompetent repair. Also, the firemen
>>> succeeded extracting the oil probe after extinguishing the
>>> fire and it seemed to indicate that there was oil in the
>>> engine.

An improperly installed oil filter will cause an immediate fire. Look at the
Honda CRV fiasco in which the oil filters taken off during an oil change
left the o-ring on the oil filter connector. Then when the techs didn't
watch what they were doing put on an oil filter over top of that. Then the
customer would drive out of the dealership and there crv's would catch fir
from the oil spraying out of the two o-rings onto the exhaust.