Where are the diesels?

Hi,

After much media coverage that diesels were coming real soon now, the
number of available diesels are not that many. My hunch on why this is
happening is the price of diesel fuel. Where I am in New York, diesel
fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.

So all the cost savings in better MPG may well be offset by the cost
of fuel and the more expensive engine purchase price. Diesel for cars
no longer have compeling economics.

Best, Mike.

hobbes > wrote in article
>...
> Where I am in New York, diesel
> fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.
>
>

Petrol???

What part of New York are you in?

On Mar 7, 6:43 am, hobbes > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After much media coverage that diesels were coming real soon now, the
> number of available diesels are not that many. My hunch on why this is
> happening is the price of diesel fuel. Where I am in New York, diesel
> fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.
>
> So all the cost savings in better MPG may well be offset by the cost
> of fuel and the more expensive engine purchase price. Diesel for cars
> no longer have compeling economics.
>
> Best, Mike.

The latest Car and Driver (April) has an interesting column by CC. He
runs through some of the advantages and disadvantages from an economic
viewpoint, based on rising prices of Diesel fuel.

One thing he did not discuss is biodiesel. I seem to have a vague
recollection that some people claim it is easier to make biodiesel
than biogasoline. Is this correct? How much of a problem is making
biodiesel?

In article >, Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:
> On Mar 7, 6:43 am, hobbes > wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> After much media coverage that diesels were coming real soon now, the
>> number of available diesels are not that many. My hunch on why this is
>> happening is the price of diesel fuel. Where I am in New York, diesel
>> fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.
>>
>> So all the cost savings in better MPG may well be offset by the cost
>> of fuel and the more expensive engine purchase price. Diesel for cars
>> no longer have compeling economics.
>>
>> Best, Mike.
>
> The latest Car and Driver (April) has an interesting column by CC. He
> runs through some of the advantages and disadvantages from an economic
> viewpoint, based on rising prices of Diesel fuel.
>
> One thing he did not discuss is biodiesel. I seem to have a vague
> recollection that some people claim it is easier to make biodiesel
> than biogasoline. Is this correct? How much of a problem is making
> biodiesel?

Depends on how tolerant your vehicle is, but basically you run used
cooking oil from the fryer through a filter to strain out the solids and
you have bio-diesel. I suppose you could avoid the filter by using new
clean veggie oils. (but at that point I think the cost savings and then
some is lost)

Now how easy is it to make your veggie oil? I have no idea, but I believe
it's fairly labor intensive without specialized machines.

homemade biodiesel is and will be great until it reaches a saturation
point of people doing it. At that point, used fry oil is going to start
costing money. The resturants which enjoyed someone just taking it away
for no cost will have people offering them money to take it once the
demand for the used cooking oil goes up.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:
> On Mar 7, 6:43 am, hobbes > wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> After much media coverage that diesels were coming real soon now, the
>> number of available diesels are not that many. My hunch on why this is
>> happening is the price of diesel fuel. Where I am in New York, diesel
>> fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.
>>
>> So all the cost savings in better MPG may well be offset by the cost
>> of fuel and the more expensive engine purchase price. Diesel for cars
>> no longer have compeling economics.
>>
>> Best, Mike.
>
> The latest Car and Driver (April) has an interesting column by CC. He
> runs through some of the advantages and disadvantages from an economic
> viewpoint, based on rising prices of Diesel fuel.
>
> One thing he did not discuss is biodiesel. I seem to have a vague
> recollection that some people claim it is easier to make biodiesel
> than biogasoline. Is this correct? How much of a problem is making
> biodiesel?

Well, the Mythbusters TV show poured straight left over french fry
cooking oil into a Benz and it ran perfect on a test track oval. I
think it got something like 2 mpg less than pump diesel.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com

A friend has a VW Jetta diesel. He says he gets 42 mpg city, 46 mpg
highway. Unlike the old diesel cars: it doesn't smoke, it doesn't
smell, and its not noisy.
I was impressed.

I recall the 80s Mercedes with diesels. They smoked, they smelled bad,
noisy, and the back of the car was black with diesel smoke residue. The
diesel Jetta does none of that.

Finding a station that sells diesel can be a challenge.

"Beth W" > wrote in message
...
>A friend has a VW Jetta diesel. He says he gets 42 mpg city, 46 mpg
> highway. Unlike the old diesel cars: it doesn't smoke, it doesn't
> smell, and its not noisy.
> I was impressed.
>
> I recall the 80s Mercedes with diesels. They smoked, they smelled bad,
> noisy, and the back of the car was black with diesel smoke residue. The
> diesel Jetta does none of that.
>
> Finding a station that sells diesel can be a challenge.

Indeed, the newer (European) diesels work very well and dont have that
"pine knot burner". Reputation. I hope they find their way here soon.

Diesel is easy to find here in Texas. Not cheap, but available.

The biodiesel situation is not clearly defined. You can burn waste
vegetable oil
in many diesels after it has been cleaned up a bit. I have some long term
concerns
about continued availability of food oil wastes, and about the use of them
in
auto systems.

You can also run into a nasty situation with the tax authorities if you dont
pay
tax on this "fuel".

You can make better fuels by converting the fattyacid triglycerides into
methyl
esters, ethyl esters, or other. That conversion is relatively easy,
chemically, but
you will lose 15-20% of the volume of oil when the glycerol precipitates out
of
solution. And then, what do you do with it?

On Mar 7, 7:43*am, hobbes > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After much media coverage that diesels were coming real soon now, the
> number of available diesels are not that many. My hunch on why this is
> happening is the price of diesel fuel. Where I am in New York, diesel
> fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.
>
> So all the cost savings in better MPG may well be offset by the cost
> of fuel and the more expensive engine purchase price. Diesel for cars
> no longer have compeling economics.
>
> Best, Mike.

In the USA diesel automobiles have really never had a legal cost
advantage over comparable gasoline powered models. Initial cost of a
diesel is higher, maintenance costs are a bit higher, fuel is priced
well above regular and usually above premium gasoline, etc.

"John S." > wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 7:43 am, hobbes > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After much media coverage that diesels were coming real soon now, the
> number of available diesels are not that many. My hunch on why this is
> happening is the price of diesel fuel. Where I am in New York, diesel
> fuel is priced above Regular Petrol grade by about 60 cents.
>
> So all the cost savings in better MPG may well be offset by the cost
> of fuel and the more expensive engine purchase price. Diesel for cars
> no longer have compeling economics.
>
> Best, Mike.

In the USA diesel automobiles have really never had a legal cost
advantage over comparable gasoline powered models. Initial cost of a
diesel is higher, maintenance costs are a bit higher, fuel is priced
well above regular and usually above premium gasoline, etc.

The USA is a bit of a special situation..

Diesel is higher here than gasoline but it isnt that way all over the
world...

I dont know that maintenance of a diesel is substantially higher than that
of a gasoline engine. It is not in the European small diesels I have had
experience with.

And the cost of building a diesel is not substantially more expensive
either,
I would guess, if diesel autos are built in quantity. Yes, there are
differences,
but I dont believe them to be substantial differences.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:

> One thing he did not discuss is biodiesel. I seem to have a vague
> recollection that some people claim it is easier to make biodiesel
> than biogasoline. Is this correct? How much of a problem is making
> biodiesel?


"Biodiesel" is basically just vegetable oil. So yeah, its a heck of a
lot more practical than brewing ethanol to blend with gasoline, whch is
the only thing so far that approaches "biogasoline."

Its also much better on the energy balance, as ethanol takes as much
(some say more, some say a little less) energy to make than you get back
when you burn it. Methanol is working in Brazil where they're on the
equator, have a tropical growth environment, year-round growing season,
and can use sugar cane as the base stock for ethanol. Ethanol will never
work at a positive energy balance in North America. Its just a load of
subsidized feel-good BS. But biodiesel- THAT might work fairly well.