Alfa 156 JTD

Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the look of
the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best in Sportwagon
form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down, nor ever had a fault
in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?

I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo leather......lovely.

Jim wrote:
> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the
> look of the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best in
> Sportwagon form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down, nor
> ever had a fault in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>
> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
> leather......lovely.

Go for it. Enjoy.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On 06/04/2010 16:33, Catman wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the
>> look of the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best
>> in Sportwagon form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down,
>> nor ever had a fault in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>>
>> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
>> leather......lovely.
>
> Go for it. Enjoy.
>
I have one (and a 159). I have had all German marques worth mentioning.
Nothing comes close! And BMW's make you look like a chav?

Jim wrote:
> On 06/04/2010 16:33, Catman wrote:
>> Jim wrote:
>>> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the
>>> look of the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best
>>> in Sportwagon form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down,
>>> nor ever had a fault in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>>>
>>> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
>>> leather......lovely.
>>
>> Go for it. Enjoy.
>>
> I have one (and a 159). I have had all German marques worth mentioning.
> Nothing comes close! And BMW's make you look like a chav?

Well, I wouldn't be *quite* so cruel these days

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On 06/04/2010 17:17, Catman wrote:
> Jim wrote:
>> On 06/04/2010 16:33, Catman wrote:
>>> Jim wrote:
>>>> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the
>>>> look of the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best
>>>> in Sportwagon form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down,
>>>> nor ever had a fault in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>>>>
>>>> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
>>>> leather......lovely.
>>>
>>> Go for it. Enjoy.
>>>
>> I have one (and a 159). I have had all German marques worth
>> mentioning. Nothing comes close! And BMW's make you look like a chav?
>
> Well, I wouldn't be *quite* so cruel these days
>
Sorry but most people who drive BMW's seem to be quite rude....so that's
how I feel! That however ignores the rather boring *design* (if we can
stretch the word that far) of the German auto industry!

Jim > wrote:

> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the look of
> the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best in Sportwagon
> form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down, nor ever had a fault
> in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>
> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo leather......lovely.

Do it!

The 2.4 JTD is a lovely engine - but not as economical as you're used
to.

At 50k miles, that Kraut diesel is just about to lunch the turbo,
too.... amongst other things. Kraut reliability is not what they'd like
you to believe.

2002 will (should) be a car with the facelift interior - so it should
have a silver central console, with digital climate control and a fuel
computer mounted centrally on top of the dash. If it doesn't have this
kit, it's a late registered older model, so negotiate price accordingly.

Be aware that, with the seats up, the Sportwagon boot is smaller than
the saloon boot - but they're very practical, with a completely flat
load area when you fold the seats (the seat base tips upwards to achieve
this).

Hopefully yours will have the Bose audio upgrade if it has Momo leather
- head unit is the same, but the upgraded speaker package comes with a
rear mounted amp. and sub-woofer. There's a very cheap mod. you can do
to connect an iPod, too.

Check the service history carefully - cambelts are a bit of a pain on
5-pot engines, and should be done at around 60k miles - although the
service interval states 72k miles.

Front suspension can wear out, so check for clonking at the front end -
at best it'll be new drop-links needed at less than a tenner a side - at
worst it'll need new arms, which are around 50 quid a side.

Some Sportwagons have self-levelling rear suspension - if fitted, make
sure it works, as I imagine the self-levelling dampers are stupidly
expensive to replace.

Other than the above, they're robust cars which are pretty damned well
rust protected - but check underneath carefully, as any damage to the
underbody protection can let water in. Also check the front inner wings,
especially if the arch liners have gone missing.

Many cars will be missing the engine under-tray, negotiate £100 off if
this is the case. The heavy engine means you can catch it on speed
bumps, but the cars are much more refined with it fitted - and it keeps
the engine bay nice and clean.

I'm sure that sums things up.... but don't expect to find a cheap one
worth buying - good 156s appear to have BMW matching residuals these
days.
--
SteveH

"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> On 06/04/2010 17:17, Catman wrote:
>> Jim wrote:
>>> On 06/04/2010 16:33, Catman wrote:
>>>> Jim wrote:
>>>>> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the
>>>>> look of the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best
>>>>> in Sportwagon form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down,
>>>>> nor ever had a fault in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
>>>>> leather......lovely.
>>>>
>>>> Go for it. Enjoy.
>>>>
>>> I have one (and a 159). I have had all German marques worth
>>> mentioning. Nothing comes close! And BMW's make you look like a chav?
>>
>> Well, I wouldn't be *quite* so cruel these days
>>
> Sorry but most people who drive BMW's seem to be quite rude....so that's
> how I feel! That however ignores the rather boring *design* (if we can
> stretch the word that far) of the German auto industry!


Only a slight generalisation then. Never thought I qualify as a chav,
whatever your definition of it. Have never considered myself rude, unlike
your post.

"SteveH" > wrote in message
...
> Jim > wrote:
>
>> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the look
>> of
>> the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best in
>> Sportwagon
>> form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down, nor ever had a
>> fault
>> in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>>
>> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
>> leather......lovely.
>
> Do it!
>
> The 2.4 JTD is a lovely engine - but not as economical as you're used
> to.
>
> At 50k miles, that Kraut diesel is just about to lunch the turbo,
> too.... amongst other things. Kraut reliability is not what they'd like
> you to believe.
>
> 2002 will (should) be a car with the facelift interior - so it should
> have a silver central console, with digital climate control and a fuel
> computer mounted centrally on top of the dash. If it doesn't have this
> kit, it's a late registered older model, so negotiate price accordingly.
>
> Be aware that, with the seats up, the Sportwagon boot is smaller than
> the saloon boot - but they're very practical, with a completely flat
> load area when you fold the seats (the seat base tips upwards to achieve
> this).
>
> Hopefully yours will have the Bose audio upgrade if it has Momo leather
> - head unit is the same, but the upgraded speaker package comes with a
> rear mounted amp. and sub-woofer. There's a very cheap mod. you can do
> to connect an iPod, too.
>
> Check the service history carefully - cambelts are a bit of a pain on
> 5-pot engines, and should be done at around 60k miles - although the
> service interval states 72k miles.
>
> Front suspension can wear out, so check for clonking at the front end -
> at best it'll be new drop-links needed at less than a tenner a side - at
> worst it'll need new arms, which are around 50 quid a side.
>
> Some Sportwagons have self-levelling rear suspension - if fitted, make
> sure it works, as I imagine the self-levelling dampers are stupidly
> expensive to replace.
>
> Other than the above, they're robust cars which are pretty damned well
> rust protected - but check underneath carefully, as any damage to the
> underbody protection can let water in. Also check the front inner wings,
> especially if the arch liners have gone missing.
>
> Many cars will be missing the engine under-tray, negotiate £100 off if
> this is the case. The heavy engine means you can catch it on speed
> bumps, but the cars are much more refined with it fitted - and it keeps
> the engine bay nice and clean.
>
> I'm sure that sums things up.... but don't expect to find a cheap one
> worth buying - good 156s appear to have BMW matching residuals these
> days.
> --
> SteveH

Thanks for the above, Steve. I take it that you have experienced 156
ownership - in diesel form?

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:25:06 +0100, "Jim" > wrote:

>Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the look of
>the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best in Sportwagon
>form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down, nor ever had a fault
>in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?

The state of your mental health isn't determined by your choice here.
There are positives and negatives to both cars and you need to work
out whether you can cope with the negatives of Alfa ownership in order
to enjoy the positives.

I went the opposite way from you (Alfa to BMW) and this is what I
think..

1/ The 2.4 10V 140hp engine has a fabulous 'throttle' response and is
more tuneful than the BMW and more tractable at low revs - however,
it's a lot louder and less well balanced. I don't know how things went
with the later 20V and multijet engines. I'd guess that throttle
response softened and refinement got better. However, I have heard a
2.4 in a 159 and was severely put off by the rattly din it was making
(made a black cab sound refined).

2/ The cabin quality is not as good so expect squeaks and rattles and
the sound of leather rubbing on adjacent parts to a much greater
extent than in the BMW. However, BMW use Elephant @rse for leather and
have no clue how to make a comfy seat. In this respect the Alfa is
second to none.

3/ Suspension 1 - and this is a big one for an ex-BMW owner. When it
comes to British roads, Alfa have, for some years, had dire body
control. The 2.4 is a heavy engine for the car and the underside front
of the car will hit the ground over certain road surfaces if taken at
reasonable speed. It bottoms out and gets a bit out of control over
undulating surfaces. I was able to get mine to scrape on the M8 near
Glasgow (just in case you think this could only happen on really bad B
roads). There's a big low overhang at the front and this can take a
beating. It can be an enjoyment spoiler. As a BMW owner with M-Sport
suspension, the body control is stunning although the comfort is
reduced on very lumpy roads.

4/ Suspension 2 - SteveH is quite right in all he says except that the
front suspension can be *extremely* noisy (clonks, squeaks and
creaking) and it can be very difficult to get fixed. I tried for over
5 years to get mine quietened and no garage could ever find anything
wrong so it kinda sounded like I was driving a wreck at times. On
mine, using the Aircon on a very hot summer day would heat up the
front suspension and the creaks produced were dire. Try getting that
one fixed at a dealer!

5/ For some reason Alfas make their drivers feel special, in a good
way, though this is lessened when faced with some of the bills you can
get. BMWs make drivers feel special in a less good way.

6/ Electrics caused me no problems in over 8 years of ownership and
the 2.4 is a decently economical engine in a way that doesn't show up
in government tests. I found I got very little variation from 41mpg
regardless of how I drove it. The BMW has a lot more variation and
drinks plenty when booted. Maybe BMW tweak their cars for the economy
tests (understandably) more than Alfa do? Anyway, the 2.4 is also a
decently reliable and well tested unit.

7/ Although the body is galvanised, my experience is that it's not as
good as others for rust. After 8 years mine was on the point of
becoming obvious. Check for signs of paint bulging at seams and near
edges (on any older car).

>I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo leather......lovely.

Lovely indeed..there's no comparison to the staid/boring BMW inside or
out.

All the above is IMHO BTW! Having sampled from both camps, the choice
isn't easy or simple and the answer will be different for different
people.

Two last things, my Alfa was the most reliable car I've ever owned (in
30 years) or had experience of. Don't go near a Selespeed - not
ever..period.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:40:12 +0100, "Jim" > wrote:

>
>
>
>"Jim" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 06/04/2010 17:17, Catman wrote:
>>> Jim wrote:
>>>> On 06/04/2010 16:33, Catman wrote:
>>>>> Jim wrote:
>>>>>> Feels like an itch that needs to be scratched, I've always loved the
>>>>>> look of the 156 and always fancied a 2.4 JTD - and would suit me best
>>>>>> in Sportwagon form. Currently using a 320d which never breaks down,
>>>>>> nor ever had a fault in over 50k miles. Am I mad to consider one!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a beady eye on two 2002 models, Veloce x 2, momo
>>>>>> leather......lovely.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go for it. Enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>> I have one (and a 159). I have had all German marques worth
>>>> mentioning. Nothing comes close! And BMW's make you look like a chav?
>>>
>>> Well, I wouldn't be *quite* so cruel these days
>>>
>> Sorry but most people who drive BMW's seem to be quite rude....so that's
>> how I feel! That however ignores the rather boring *design* (if we can
>> stretch the word that far) of the German auto industry!
>
>
>Only a slight generalisation then. Never thought I qualify as a chav,
>whatever your definition of it. Have never considered myself rude, unlike
>your post.

But..Jeremy Clarkson said "Alfas are for nice people"..

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)