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Aftermarket intake questions



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 1st 07, 04:54 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Dana Rohleder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Aftermarket intake questions

I am very happy with the performance of my Miata, but I am wondering if I
can improve my current performance AND fuel economy with an aftermarket
intake. Here is the rub - I currently get an AVERAGE of 30 MPG in daily
driving, which is, from what I understand, better than average economy for
my perfectly stock vehicle. I am hesitant to screw around with anything that
may decrease my economy and cost me $200 to boot. Logic tells me that the
intake would increase the fuel economy even more, but I've been burnt in the
past using my logic. I just drive the car as a daily driver and don't need
ultimate performance from the new installation.

1. Has everyone who has switched to a short ram system noticed an increase
in MPG?

2. Is the performance and MPG increase worth the money and time investment?

3. Should I go with a short ram system, or just switch to a high-flow K&M
filter?

4. Which short ram system would be the safest bet?

5. Is it worth the extra installation headaches and $$ to get a cold air
system?

--
Boreal
2001 LS 6 speed Silver/tan, Sport Suspension w/hard rear sway bar


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  #2  
Old July 1st 07, 05:31 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
pws[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,424
Default Aftermarket intake questions

Dana Rohleder wrote:
> I am very happy with the performance of my Miata, but I am wondering if I
> can improve my current performance AND fuel economy with an aftermarket
> intake. Here is the rub - I currently get an AVERAGE of 30 MPG in daily
> driving, which is, from what I understand, better than average economy for
> my perfectly stock vehicle. I am hesitant to screw around with anything that
> may decrease my economy and cost me $200 to boot. Logic tells me that the
> intake would increase the fuel economy even more, but I've been burnt in the
> past using my logic. I just drive the car as a daily driver and don't need
> ultimate performance from the new installation.
>
> 1. Has everyone who has switched to a short ram system noticed an increase
> in MPG?


I would leave it stock if you like how it sounds and looks. The miata is
quick, but it will never be a fast accelerator without either adding
forced induction or swapping engines.

The improvement from things like headers, intakes and exhausts is so
minimal relative to the money spent that I consider them more for looks
and sound than anything, though the car will flow somewhat more freely
than stock if it is all done correctly.

> 2. Is the performance and MPG increase worth the money and time investment?


What year is your miata?
I would put a Randall Cowl intake on a 1990 to 1997 model, not sure if
they offer one for the later models.
It helps some and is not that expensive, though it does require cutting
a hole in the firewall.

> 3. Should I go with a short ram system, or just switch to a high-flow K&M
> filter?


Lots of debate on filters. I won't run K&N's. My turbo setup requires an
aftermarket foam filter, but ultimately, I would rather use the OEM
paper ones, which the Randall system allows.

> 4. Which short ram system would be the safest bet?


One of the few things I have not installed on a miata.
Chris D. has a nifty-looking one on his '99 model that makes a nice
"whoosh" sound. :-)

> 5. Is it worth the extra installation headaches and $$ to get a cold air
> system?


Not the unit from Jackson Racing Products, I hate everything about it,
especially the fact that I ever bought one.

They are in the way of any radiator removal, the intake box cracks from
the heat and the stress, often underneath first so that you don't know
that debris is being sucked past the filter unless you really watch it
almost daily.

In other words, if someone bought me one and offered to install it for
free on another, non-turbo miata that I owned, I would tell them thanks
but no way.

Pat
  #3  
Old July 2nd 07, 12:02 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Lanny Chambers
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Posts: 832
Default Aftermarket intake questions

In article >,
"Dana Rohleder" > wrote:

> 2. Is the performance and MPG increase worth the money and time investment?


No cone filter or K&N panel will do anything but pass more dirt and make
more noise. The stock airbox is not a point of restriction on a stock
engine, and will flow more air than the engine can use, even with a
paper filter. If anything, most cone filters probably cost power because
they suck hot air directly off the exhaust header. That doesn't stop
folks from buying them, of course, presumably because they're shiny.

There is a small benefit to a true cold air intake like the Randall,
which draws air from outside the engine bay. I have one, and while I
didn't notice more power, I don't have any less, and the car no longer
pings using 87 octane fuel on hot days. That's all I was looking for.

I don't know how well the Randall works on an NB.

Bottom line: the most you can expect from intake and exhaust mods is
about 15 rwhp for $1000-1500, a very poor return. Do it for the sound or
because you like shiny things, but if you want more power, think
supercharger or turbo. Oops, there goes your mileage... :-)
  #4  
Old July 2nd 07, 06:17 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chuck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 249
Default Aftermarket intake questions

"Oops, there goes your mileage"
Only if you have a heavy foot. Highway mileage may increase by 1 or 2 MPG.
Local is usually about the same.
A properly installed turbo scavenges, which helps improve highway MPG.
My 99 with stock rear end, 5spd, and a fifth gear mod, usually runs 29-30
with A/C on (Highway)
A/C on does horrible things to local gas milage.
Major disadvantage is that 91+ octane premium is needed.

"Lanny Chambers" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dana Rohleder" > wrote:
>
> > 2. Is the performance and MPG increase worth the money and time

investment?
>
> No cone filter or K&N panel will do anything but pass more dirt and make
> more noise. The stock airbox is not a point of restriction on a stock
> engine, and will flow more air than the engine can use, even with a
> paper filter. If anything, most cone filters probably cost power because
> they suck hot air directly off the exhaust header. That doesn't stop
> folks from buying them, of course, presumably because they're shiny.
>
> There is a small benefit to a true cold air intake like the Randall,
> which draws air from outside the engine bay. I have one, and while I
> didn't notice more power, I don't have any less, and the car no longer
> pings using 87 octane fuel on hot days. That's all I was looking for.
>
> I don't know how well the Randall works on an NB.
>
> Bottom line: the most you can expect from intake and exhaust mods is
> about 15 rwhp for $1000-1500, a very poor return. Do it for the sound or
> because you like shiny things, but if you want more power, think
> supercharger or turbo. Oops, there goes your mileage... :-)



  #5  
Old July 2nd 07, 01:34 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Leon van Dommelen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Aftermarket intake questions

"Dana Rohleder" > wrote:

>I am very happy with the performance of my Miata, but I am wondering if I
>can improve my current performance AND fuel economy with an aftermarket
>intake. Here is the rub - I currently get an AVERAGE of 30 MPG in daily
>driving, which is, from what I understand, better than average economy for
>my perfectly stock vehicle. I am hesitant to screw around with anything that
>may decrease my economy and cost me $200 to boot. Logic tells me that the
>intake would increase the fuel economy even more,


What logic?

Leon

> but I've been burnt in the
>past using my logic. I just drive the car as a daily driver and don't need
>ultimate performance from the new installation.
>
>1. Has everyone who has switched to a short ram system noticed an increase
>in MPG?
>
>2. Is the performance and MPG increase worth the money and time investment?
>
>3. Should I go with a short ram system, or just switch to a high-flow K&M
>filter?
>
>4. Which short ram system would be the safest bet?
>
>5. Is it worth the extra installation headaches and $$ to get a cold air
>system?

--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas
  #6  
Old July 2nd 07, 02:21 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Dana Rohleder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default Aftermarket intake questions

Less restricted airflow to the engine; the same logic that supposedly
increases horsepower - by increasing airflow efficiency performance is
enhanced. I'm not saying it's true - that's why I'm asking. But the
manufacturers and many owners seem to think so.
--
Boreal
2001 LS 6 speed Silver/tan, Sport Suspension w/hard rear sway bar



"Leon van Dommelen" > wrote in message
...
> "Dana Rohleder" > wrote:
>
>Logic tells me that the
>>intake would increase the fuel economy even more,


What logic?

Leon


  #7  
Old July 2nd 07, 05:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 793
Default Aftermarket intake questions

"Dana Rohleder" > wrote:

> Less restricted airflow to the engine; the same logic that
> supposedly increases horsepower - by increasing airflow efficiency
> performance is enhanced. I'm not saying it's true - that's why I'm
> asking. But the manufacturers and many owners seem to think so.


I don't know why opening up the intake would increase economy, less
restrictive exhaust might BUT either or both may result in heavier
foot which will lower economy.

It's hard to increase performance w/o using it, I know every time I
clean my airfilter and change plugs I go looking for Vipers to drag
race..... ;-)


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
  #8  
Old July 3rd 07, 02:59 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Leon van Dommelen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Aftermarket intake questions

"Dana Rohleder" > wrote:

>Less restricted airflow to the engine;


More restrictive airflow. If you take in cooler air, it is denser.
Hence for the same performance, you need to increase the intake
vacuum. That increases pumping losses.

> the same logic that supposedly
>increases horsepower - by increasing airflow efficiency


Maximum airflow is increased, not efficiency with respect to viscous
power losses.

> performance is
>enhanced. I'm not saying it's true - that's why I'm asking. But the
>manufacturers and many owners seem to think so.


What manufacturers? Mazda?

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas
  #9  
Old July 3rd 07, 03:33 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
miker
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Posts: 182
Default Aftermarket intake questions

> More restrictive airflow. If you take in cooler air, it is denser.
> Hence for the same performance, you need to increase the intake
> vacuum. That increases pumping losses.


If the air is denser, don't you need less of it for the same performance?

miker



  #10  
Old July 4th 07, 12:24 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Leon van Dommelen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 285
Default Aftermarket intake questions

"miker" > wrote:

>> More restrictive airflow. If you take in cooler air, it is denser.
>> Hence for the same performance, you need to increase the intake
>> vacuum. That increases pumping losses.

>
>If the air is denser, don't you need less of it for the same performance?


Exactly. The problem is that for most engines, (the ones that cannot idle
a few cylinders,) the engine is still trying to take in the same volume.
If that same volume has more oxygen, the throttle has to work harder to
keep air out of the engine. That gives a larger vacuum to work against
the moving pistons.

And of course, when you replace the intake, you lose any design fine tuning
that Mazda may have done. But then again, such fine tuning might well be
to satisfy some EPA requirement rather than to save you a buck on fuel.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas
 




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