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Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year



 
 
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  #101  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:00 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Mike hunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

What facts? You once again demonstrate you penchant to comment on every
subject, even though you apparently know little or nothing of the subject on
which you choose to comment.



Obviously you know noting about the Anthracite and Bituminous coal fields in
Pennsylvania. They are not on the mountain tops. The coal is all in "U"
shape veins between the mountains. For the past fifty years, ALL coal wash
water has been collected, sediments removed and the water REUSED. Any water
release is treated for acids before being discharged. After the coal is
removed the area is restored to grade. Even old areas, mined before
federal and state reclamation laws were passed, are being reclaimed and put
to use LOL


>> And don't forget - coal extraction can be devastating to the environment:
>> 90 million gallons of waste slurry produced every year while preparing
>> coal to be burned, 1,200+ miles of streams that have been buried or
>> polluted - just in in the Appalachia region because of mountaintop
>> removal mining, 260 million gallons of water used for coal mining in the
>> U.S. every day, 12,000 miners died from black lung disease between 1992
>> and 2002...
>>
>> a

>
> Stop it! Please don't confuse the members of the group with facts. It only
> clarifies issues.
>
> Jeff



Ads
  #102  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:14 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
a[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will SavePer Year

Mike hunt wrote:
> What facts? You once again demonstrate you penchant to comment on every
> subject, even though you apparently know little or nothing of the subject on
> which you choose to comment.
>
>
>
> Obviously you know noting about the Anthracite and Bituminous coal fields in
> Pennsylvania. They are not on the mountain tops. The coal is all in "U"
> shape veins between the mountains. For the past fifty years, ALL coal wash
> water has been collected, sediments removed and the water REUSED. Any water
> release is treated for acids before being discharged. After the coal is
> removed the area is restored to grade. Even old areas, mined before
> federal and state reclamation laws were passed, are being reclaimed and put
> to use LOL
>
>


So doing that in one area makes it all ok?

a
  #103  
Old February 22nd 08, 07:56 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will SavePer Year

Mike hunt wrote:
> What facts? You once again demonstrate you penchant to comment on every
> subject, even though you apparently know little or nothing of the subject on
> which you choose to comment.
>
>
>
> Obviously you know noting about the Anthracite and Bituminous coal fields in
> Pennsylvania. They are not on the mountain tops. The coal is all in "U"
> shape veins between the mountains. For the past fifty years, ALL coal wash
> water has been collected, sediments removed and the water REUSED. Any water
> release is treated for acids before being discharged. After the coal is
> removed the area is restored to grade. Even old areas, mined before
> federal and state reclamation laws were passed, are being reclaimed and put
> to use LOL
>
>
>>> And don't forget - coal extraction can be devastating to the environment:
>>> 90 million gallons of waste slurry produced every year while preparing
>>> coal to be burned, 1,200+ miles of streams that have been buried or
>>> polluted - just in in the Appalachia region because of mountaintop
>>> removal mining, 260 million gallons of water used for coal mining in the
>>> U.S. every day, 12,000 miners died from black lung disease between 1992
>>> and 2002...
>>>
>>> a

>> Stop it! Please don't confuse the members of the group with facts. It only
>> clarifies issues.
>>
>> Jeff


I don't know to whom you were responding. The logical person would be
me, because I made the last comment.

However, I didn't make any comments about particular types of mining,
because I knew that mountain top removal mining is destroying the
environment in West Virgina, where the Applalachian Mountains are (they
are not just in PA). I am also well aware of the how coal is mined in
the mountains. My father and grandfather used to deliver coal in a Model
A truck; further, my great grandfather was a fire boss in the mines.

However, the poster to whom I was responding was correct about
mountaintop mining, more accurately called "mountaintop-removal mining,"
because the mountain top is literally blasted away. The rocks are left
in the valleys, where the rivers are polluted by the rocks and the
minerals in the rocks.

As luck would have it, I was at the American Museum of Natural History
this week, where they had a short movie about Mountain Top Mining. You
may educate yourself by going to that great museum or by reading
articles that you can find with a google search like these:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Aug16.html

http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mount...007/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountaintop_removal_mining

You may want to keep your hands off the keyboard and remember the old
adage: "It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than
to open it and leave no doubt."

In this case, you left no doubt.

Jeff
  #104  
Old February 23rd 08, 12:49 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Grumpy AuContraire
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 307
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will SavePer Year



Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:33:11 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>It certainly takes energy (much of it necessarily in the form of
>>>fossil fuel) to mine and process the ore into nuclear fuel, but this
>>>doesn't mean that there isn't a big net savings in CO2 emission. A
>>>pound of nuclear fuel provides energy equivalent to 100,000 barrels of
>>>oil. Even if it takes a hundred barrels to refine it, that is still a
>>>huge reduction in CO2.
>>>
>>>This isn't an unqualified endorsement of nuclear energy, but it does
>>>have potential to reduce greenhouse gases.
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>But what about the fact that raw data indicates that CO2 levels indicate
>>a lagging property?

>
>
> You are referring to geologic data indicating that in past (natural)
> warming cycles, warming preceded CO2 rises by about 1000 years. This
> is because past warming events weren't initiated by CO2. However, once
> initiated, warming causes increased CO2 levels which cause further
> warming. Even though the cycle wasn't initiated by a rise in CO2,
> rising CO2 drove it further than it would have gone otherwise.
>
> This new cycle is different. It is initiated by CO2 and it is
> advancing very rapidly. If we reach a tipping point (and some
> scientists believe that we are getting close) the process will start
> running away and no one can say how far it will go.
>



Sorry, but current and recent past raw data from NASA simply do not
indicate this. In fact, the data indicate that the warming period has
ended or is about to.

JT

  #105  
Old February 23rd 08, 01:51 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Gordon McGrew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:56:10 GMT, Jeff >
wrote:

>You may want to keep your hands off the keyboard and remember the old
>adage: "It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than
>to open it and leave no doubt."


Mike doesn't like uncertainty. He prefers to be certainly wrong.
  #106  
Old February 23rd 08, 05:58 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Retired VIP[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:44 -0500, "Mike hunt" >
wrote:

>What facts? You once again demonstrate you penchant to comment on every
>subject, even though you apparently know little or nothing of the subject on
>which you choose to comment.
>
>
>
>Obviously you know noting about the Anthracite and Bituminous coal fields in
>Pennsylvania. They are not on the mountain tops. The coal is all in "U"
>shape veins between the mountains. For the past fifty years, ALL coal wash
>water has been collected, sediments removed and the water REUSED. Any water
>release is treated for acids before being discharged. After the coal is
>removed the area is restored to grade. Even old areas, mined before
>federal and state reclamation laws were passed, are being reclaimed and put
>to use LOL


You might as well talk to a wall for all the good it does Mike. These
guys have sucked down all the "America is rotten" and "It's all
America's fault" socialists crap and they are not going to listen to
the truth. I don't understand why they don't move to a country that
matches their hate of freedom and capitalism. That's not true, I do
know why they stay in the country they hate. They don't want to give
up their easy chairs, wide screen TVs, HD DVD players and Big Mac's
for an unheated shack and cold goat meat.

Jack
  #107  
Old February 23rd 08, 06:08 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will SavePer Year

Retired VIP wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:44 -0500, "Mike hunt" >
> wrote:
>
>> What facts? You once again demonstrate you penchant to comment on every
>> subject, even though you apparently know little or nothing of the subject on
>> which you choose to comment.
>>
>>
>>
>> Obviously you know noting about the Anthracite and Bituminous coal fields in
>> Pennsylvania. They are not on the mountain tops. The coal is all in "U"
>> shape veins between the mountains. For the past fifty years, ALL coal wash
>> water has been collected, sediments removed and the water REUSED. Any water
>> release is treated for acids before being discharged. After the coal is
>> removed the area is restored to grade. Even old areas, mined before
>> federal and state reclamation laws were passed, are being reclaimed and put
>> to use LOL

>
> You might as well talk to a wall for all the good it does Mike. These
> guys have sucked down all the "America is rotten" and "It's all
> America's fault" socialists crap and they are not going to listen to
> the truth.


What does this have to do with the issue at hand? The fact is that in
some areas, mountains literally have their tops blown off and the rocks
from the blasts end up in the valleys.

http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mount...007/index.html

What you're making is a straw-man argument. The fact is that one think
that America is a great country, but can be made better.

> I don't understand why they don't move to a country that
> matches their hate of freedom and capitalism.


You mean like the freedom to enjoy the valleys? Oops, the valleys were
filled in with mountain top.

> That's not true, I do
> know why they stay in the country they hate. They don't want to give
> up their easy chairs, wide screen TVs, HD DVD players and Big Mac's
> for an unheated shack and cold goat meat.


You've got the strawman argument style down pat!

> Jack

  #108  
Old February 23rd 08, 10:02 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Gordon McGrew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:08:59 GMT, Jeff >
wrote:

>Retired VIP wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:44 -0500, "Mike hunt" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What facts? You once again demonstrate you penchant to comment on every
>>> subject, even though you apparently know little or nothing of the subject on
>>> which you choose to comment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously you know noting about the Anthracite and Bituminous coal fields in
>>> Pennsylvania. They are not on the mountain tops. The coal is all in "U"
>>> shape veins between the mountains. For the past fifty years, ALL coal wash
>>> water has been collected, sediments removed and the water REUSED. Any water
>>> release is treated for acids before being discharged. After the coal is
>>> removed the area is restored to grade. Even old areas, mined before
>>> federal and state reclamation laws were passed, are being reclaimed and put
>>> to use LOL

>>
>> You might as well talk to a wall for all the good it does Mike. These
>> guys have sucked down all the "America is rotten" and "It's all
>> America's fault" socialists crap and they are not going to listen to
>> the truth.

>
>What does this have to do with the issue at hand? The fact is that in
>some areas, mountains literally have their tops blown off and the rocks
> from the blasts end up in the valleys.
>
>http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mount...007/index.html


Gee, looks terrible but I am sure it will all be fine because America
is wonderful.

>What you're making is a straw-man argument. The fact is that one think
>that America is a great country, but can be made better.
>
>> I don't understand why they don't move to a country that
>> matches their hate of freedom and capitalism.

>
>You mean like the freedom to enjoy the valleys? Oops, the valleys were
>filled in with mountain top.


I surprised he didn't include faith along with capitalism and freedom.
As in, the faith to move the mountain, the capitalism to sell it and
the freedom to leave.

>> That's not true, I do
>> know why they stay in the country they hate. They don't want to give
>> up their easy chairs, wide screen TVs, HD DVD players and Big Mac's
>> for an unheated shack and cold goat meat.

>
>You've got the strawman argument style down pat!


I particularly like the Big Mac vs. cold goat meat false dichotomy.
Was the goat meat previously stewed in a spicy sauce by any chance?



  #109  
Old March 1st 08, 06:03 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Steven M. O'Neill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

Willie K. Yee, MD <please@nospam> wrote:
>Consuber Reports just calculated Total Cost of Ownership for a bunch
>of vehicles. Guess who came out on top?


Bicycle owners?

--
Steven O'Neill
Brooklyn, NY
http://www.panix.com/~steveo
 




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