Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:30:26 -0500:

> Take it to a real tire shop and have a "mushroom" patch installed.
> It has a plug and a patch combined..
> The "tech" product is one of the best.

My plan is to take up Wheel Works on their offer of a free mushroom
patch. I still can't believe that it's free.

I meant to go today, but, when I moved the car onto a flat area, I
left the key in the ignition, so the bimmer never went to sleep.

Dunno why that killed the battery - but it did. So it's on the
trickle charger as we speak, so, tomorrow I'll take Wheel Works
up on their offer of a free mushroom patch.

I still can't believe they're free - so - tomorrow I'll let you know
what happens.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.
>
>I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
>as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
>about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
> https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg
>
>All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
>store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
>patches (little round things, very thin).
>
>I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
>feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
>three or four inches long or so.
>
>I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
>and balance it afterward so this question is only about
>the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
>because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.
>
>Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
>What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
> https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg

Wow, 60 posts on "advise to patch a tire". Must be a very
complicated repair.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:08:16 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:41:28 -0500:
>
>> AWD Subaru requires all 4 tires be equal.
>
>What does 'equal' mean?
>
>All tires should be "equal" with respect to size, brand, & tread pattern.
>It's just plain ghetto to have different tires on the same axle even.
>You shouldn't even have appreciably different wear on them.
>
>So, I don't know what you've been drinking that makes Subaru
>any different than any other vehicle.
>
>Those Subaru Marketing teams have you snowed I think.
It's a lot more important on cars with all wheel drive and fancy
stability/traction control.

They were NOT snowing him.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:11:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:24:03 -0500:
>
>> A large percentage of tires have a significant dynamic inballance.
>> Some cars are not fussy about dynamic balance - others are very fussy.
>
>I only have experience with a sum total of five (5) tires.
>And, so far, they've balanced just fine with my HF static balancer.
>As I said, I have BBS wheels (standard BMW issue) so maybe that plays a role.
>Also, the 5 tires were all bought at the same time from Tire Rack.
>Dunno if that has an effect at all (probably not).
>I removed all the weights first.
>I then balanced them (none needed more than a short strip of weights).
>Pretty much that was it.
>
>Car never vibrated.
>If it did, I'd take it to the shop.
>But it didn't.
You were lucky and got a set that didn't really need much balancing.
My guess? Continentals or some other tire that lists at $200 or so
each.. And you got lucky that they needed a multiple of 1/2 ounce to
balance out.

You get a tire that needs 1.75 to 2 ounces to static, and it may need
4 to dynamic balance it. You might have 1.5 on the outside at one
spot, and half way around the tire another 2.5 to 3 on the inside.

Get that on the front of a twitchy little sedam like a BMW320 with
only a static ballance, and your hands will get a good massage from
the steering wheel, even if the bumper doesn't jump.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:20:18 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:54:17 -0500:
>
>> CY: I can do toe sets, using either a long board and
>> magic marker. Or if I have second worker, a tape
>> measure.
>
>I made a toe measurement tool out of pipe.
>
>One long pipe to go parallel to the axle and two side pipes
>that are perpendicular and which slide along the pipe and
>clamp in place.
>
>Then I just measure the distance from the center of the tread
>to the center of the tread.
>
>Some alignment numbers are defined from the center of the
>vehicle, which means I have a bit of slop since mine only
>measures total toe and not center-out toe.
>
>Toe is as easy as twisting the tie rod ends equally on
>both sides in opposite directions.
>
>The hardest part is making a toe plate that spins freely
>while the car's weight is sitting on each wheel.
>
>Camber isn't too hard because you can make a faceplate for
>the wheels bolted onto the lug bolt holes (Bimmers have lug
>bolts, not lug nuts). The faceplate pushes out further than
>the tire so that you can measure the camber angle to a tenth
>of a degree with a level.
>
>Caster is a bit too difficult, but, in the case of the bimmer,
>only front toe and rear toe & camber are adjustable anyway.
>
>One problem is that you have to set a bimmer to something called
>"normal ride height" which is anything but normal. It's a height
>that happens only when you add over 500 pounds of weight,
>evenly distributed throughout the front & back seats and the
>trunk (in addition to 18 gallons of gas).
>
>Most bimmer alignments are done wrong, that is, without first setting
>ride height, so the camber is off by a few degrees (and it's supposed
>to be negative 2 degrees in the rear, which is a hellova lot).
>
>The problem here is similar to the changing tire problem. Most
>people don't *know* how to do the job, so, the mechanics almost
>always skimp (I mean, how many even *have* 500 pounds of weight
>lying around?).
>
>They know better.
>They just know their customer doesn't know any better.
>So, they cheat.
>
>The customer loses.
Doesn't need any weight. All he needs is a few ratchet straps - one
on each side at the front and one at the center rear. Draw the
suspension down by pulling the body down to the alignment rack to the
prescribed level, and do the adjustments. No rocket science involved.

There are some intelligent mechanics around, you know.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:22:05 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:29:04 -0500:
>
>> But bimmer dealers prey on people like that.
>
>That was the beemer dealer.
>
>But both bimmer and beemer dealers (which are usually under different
>ownership) screw you.
>
>They don't call 'em stealers for nothin'.
>
>Only three things you get/do at the stealer:
>1. Warranty work
>2. Recall work
>3. Oddball parts you need this very moment
What's the difference between a Bimmer and a Beemer????

Anyone crazy enough to buy a second one deserves what he gets. Crazy
enough or rich enough that the criminally high expenses don't mean
anything to them

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:33:50 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Tony Hwang wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:42:18 -0700:
>
>> Obviously you only do a static balancing.
>> Is that good enough for your driving?
>
>I have a bimmer. Older E39 model. Rides fine with the
>five tires I mounted and balanced myself with this.
>
>HF Mounter:
> https://i.imgur.com/hGeRFBv.jpg
>
>HF Balancer:
> https://i.imgur.com/hEQ3XHS.jpg
>
>I go about 80 or 85 on California highways which are some of the
>best maintained roads in the country as far as I can tell (having
>come from the east coast where the roads are lousy as all hell).
>
>No vibration, but, I did a very good job of balancing them.
>I think maybe the BBS aluminum wheels made it easier?
The BBS rims are no better balance wise than any quality OEM or
aftermarket alloy rim. I have Ford OEM alloys for my snows and Eagle
Alloy rims for my summer rims on the Ranger. The rims themselves all
balance out perfectly on the dynamic balancer with stems installed..

No measurable radial or side to side runout.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:39:36 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:38:42 -0500:
>
>> A 12 volt compressor or a good manual tire pump is a
>> lot better than canned air
>
>Probably true.
>
>1. The advantage of canned air is that sealant is often included,
> and it doesn't require electricity and it's small but it
> goes bad over time.
>
>2. The advantage of a compressor is that it doesn't go bad over
> time but it's much larger and it requires electricity (which
> is usually ok except the cigarette lighter is FAR away from
> the rear tires if you keep the wheels on the car). On a bimmer,
> the battery is far from the front axle. On most cars, it's
> the opposite, but you still have that problem.

Some do go bad just sitting. Hoses rot, and compressor pistons corrode
from misuse.
>
>3. The advantage of a hose that goes from one side of one axle
> to the other side of the other axle is that it's small, it
> never goes bad, but it does suck some air out of the other
> three tires. If you're lucky, you can suck air out of someone
> else's tires!

Don't bet on them not going bad. Ozone damage to the hose can leave
you with a popped hose.
>
> The main disadvantage is that you have to make it out of
> a hose and two chucks, one of which has to latch on and
> the other has to have some way of shutting off (which most
> chucks do). The biggest problem is that the chucks are usually
> pretty big, so that necessitates a bigger hose than you want
> (or need) to store.
>
You don't need to make them. They came as standard equipment with many
GM vehicles with air ajustable suspension - to use the air ride
compressor to blow up tires (or footballs, or swimming tubes, or
whatever) I have 2 of them - must be if to 20 feet long each.
>My plan is to build a long thin hose, with two hoses on the end
>that are thicker which contain the two chucks. Dunno if it would
>work though, as I don't know how much air you have to scavenge
>from three other tires to fill up one tire.
>

You would need to take almost 1/3 of the air out of each of 3 other
tires to blow up one empty tire.
>Of course, in a parking lot, there are lots of tires ...

And a possible vandalism charge - or more.

A good 1.25 to 2" bore tire pump is just as fast as the 12 volt
compressor - needs no electricity, and doesn't need to steel are from
your other tires. Makes you sweat a bit = but many of us need the
exercise anyway.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 01:40:43 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 17:39:38 -0500:
>
>> I did see a man put the patch on his tire and use one of the battery powered
>> pumps to pump up the tire.
>
>I wonder how long it would take to fill a tire with those
>small bicycle pumps?
>
>It takes about a hundred pumps to fill a bicycle tire.
>
>Whaddya think?
>About 1,000 pumps?
A standard tire pump (not a frame-mounted bike pump - one of those 24
inch-ish units with a footplate and a "T" handle- can pump a 225/70 15
tire faster than the average 12 volt compressor by a factor of about 2
if you are in good shape or have a "second" to spell you off.

Took about 50 strokes to take tire from 15 to 30 psi. - that's just a
couple minute's work.

I used to have to blow up tires on farm wagons with one of those pumps
as a young feller. Thankfully they were tube type tires - seating a
bead on a tubeless tire with a hand pump would be a trick (use ether
and throw a match if you get stuck having to do the deed)

On 12/07/2015 10:39 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
> say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
> moisture out of the plies.

I carry Dynaplug kits on my bikes with tubeless tires:

http://www.dynaplug.com/pro.html

I've also used the standard string type with good results. The
politically correct thing to do is to immediately repair the tire or
preferably, if your selling bike tires, buy a new one. I patched a
almost brand new rear tire, and ran it close to 8000 miles before the
tread was gone. The string plug did leak slowly towards the end but when
the tire was removed the inside loop was well sealed and wasn't going to
blow out.