Toyota is losing its halo

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 06:13:53 -0700, wrote:

> On Oct 21, 9:01Â*am, "C. E. White" >
> wrote:
>
>> In that sense, it may be fortunate for Toyota that Volkswagen has
>> vowed to overtake it. That's because Toyota, without meaningful
>> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.
>
> Who writes this tripe?
>
> Further, who actually believes it?
>
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA


I worked for a dealer back in 2005, and I noticed Toyota quality slipping
a bit...

Mostly in the US made models...

In article <48fdd2a3$1@kcnews01>,
"C. E. White" > wrote:

> When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker
> intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more
> than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality.
> I was one of the skeptics.
>
> Overtake Toyota - the industry's gold standard for productivity,
> quality assurance, efficiency and customer orientation - to say
> nothing of global profit- and sales leader? Impossible!

That's right--impossible.

VW? I wouldn't buy a German car with YOUR money. (Been there, done
that.)

And yes, I "get" German cars. German cars are the expensive, pouty, and
high-maintenance mistresses of the road. Damn, they are a fine, fine
ride...

.....but then the maintenance and pouting kicks in.

At some point, without unlimited funds, you are at a decision point:
continue the high-priced, high-maintenance fun, or go back home and
enjoy your reliable Lexus wife of a car, patiently sitting there waiting
for you to get over the midlife crisis.

Oh sure, she's not as sexy as the German car, and she doesn't handle at
the edge like the German car. She's also not as fickle and high
maintenance and pouty, and she agrees with you much more of the time.
She's always there and never complains, and you come to realize there's
more to life than a high-maintenance relationship with a pouty,
high-maintenance woman--no matter how sexy she is or how fun the nights
out with her can be. Because when she lets you down and demands more of
you than you have to give, and treats you like dirt, you're standing
there all alone outside the club, looking and feeling like an idiot.

Your Lexus wife would never, ever do that to you.

And the occasional fun night out isn't worth what you end up paying for
it, both financially and in time wasted while you wait for the German
car mistress to be in the mood to play.

Do this: start paying attention to cars with tail light and headlight
problems. What brands of cars are you seeing? That's right--VW, M-B, and
BMW. And pay attention to how old, or rather how new, those problem cars
are.

The reality of electrical issues with German cars make Lucas electrics
look reliable.

Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no
matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.

It's a small thing, but it represents the reality of the situation. You
want to buy a German car? Just buy a GM car. At least the money you're
throwing away stays more inside the country--and you get just as
reliable a car.

The latest Consumer Report has Camry in the middle of the pack.
However, differing from JD Power, it has the Scion on top. VW does
have a lot to catch up even to Detroit in terms of quality. But if
they can do it with their Audi marque then they should be able to with
VW.

In general I throw CR in the trash for JD Power. But CR has a lot of
pull with typical buyers. At least in this issue Ford would be a
better bet:

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs...810240348/1148



On Oct 21, 6:01*am, "C. E. White" >
wrote:
> Toyota is losing its halo
>
> Guido Reinking
> Automotive News Europe
>
> October 20, 2008 14:59 CET
>
> When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker
> intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more
> than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality.
> I was one of the skeptics.
>
> Overtake Toyota - the industry's gold standard for productivity,
> quality assurance, efficiency and customer orientation - to say
> nothing of global profit- and sales leader? Impossible!
>
> But look again: The top dog is losing its aura of invincibility.
>
> In Germany, sales are off 22 percent this year. In the U.S., Toyota
> has been hit even harder. Its sales there collapsed 32.3 percent in
> September, worse even than the fall taken by sickly General Motors.
>
> Contrary to popular perception, Toyota's dazzling growth over the past
> 10 years has been led by light trucks, not the gas-sipping small cars
> and hybrids that are so associated with its brand. Sales of its large
> vehicles - SUVs, crossovers, pickups and luxury Lexus sedans - have
> more than doubled in the past decade.
>
> That is why the current automotive crisis is hitting Toyota harder
> than many other manufacturers. Its profit is projected to decline by
> as much as 40 percent this fiscal year, which would yield a margin of
> barely 6 percent. That would put it on VW's level.
>
> There is little doubt that Toyota will remain the global sales leader
> for some years to come. But there is danger in that success. Becoming
> No. 1 demands different qualities than staying No. 1. Can the company
> do both?
>
> In that sense, it may be fortunate for Toyota that Volkswagen has
> vowed to overtake it. That's because Toyota, without meaningful
> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.

I have changed quite a few bulbs on Toyota and Hondas alike.



On Oct 22, 4:00*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >
wrote:
> Now *try* to find a Honda or Toyota, either low brand or high brand, no
> matter how old, with non-working tail lights. Good luck.
>
> It's a small thing, but it represents the reality of the situation. You
> want to buy a German car? Just buy a GM car. At least the money you're
> throwing away stays more inside the country--and you get just as
> reliable a car.

C. E. White turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> Contrary to popular perception, Toyota's dazzling growth over the past
> 10 years has been led by light trucks, not the gas-sipping small cars
> and hybrids that are so associated with its brand. Sales of its large
> vehicles - SUVs, crossovers, pickups and luxury Lexus sedans - have
> more than doubled in the past decade.

that comment right there is what I find so funny about all the kool-aid
drinking Toyota and Honda evangelists, who say that GM/Ford are stupid for
making trucks.

Looking at the Toyota/Lexus/Scion models shows for May 2008, posted in
(http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...1b43ec54af0766) that the
automaker does indeed sell a large amount of trucks.

Toyota (Lexus/Scion) makes 35 models of cars/trucks/vans.

Seven models - 20% - are trucks or vans.
22 models - 62% - are midsize or larger.
Seven models - 20% - are considered compact or smaller.

GM (Buick/Chevy/GMC/Pontiac/Saturn) makes 54 models of cars/trucks/vans.

18 models - 33% are trucks or vans. (Note that six models are work trucks or
full-size vans, which don't exist in Toyota's lineup.)
21 models - 38% - are midsize or larger.
10 models - 18% - are considered compact or smaller.

http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2008/car_compare.pdf

So, it would be fair to say that - though Toyota has done a better job of
marketing their stance as a small car maker, the reality is that they're
the same as GM in terms of truck models.

Meanwhile, I'll go back to my 17MPG midsize Avalanche. :P


--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

Gary L. Burnore turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

>>Dude, even on cars we disagree!
>>
>>I bought an '85 Jetta
>
> More proof you're a ****ing moron.

I suppose you could argue that a ****ing moron is better than a moron who
isn't getting laid.

--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

government is a process which utilizes 45.5% gut reaction, 45.5% laws and
statutes and 1% logic

On Oct 21, 8:01*am, "C. E. White" >
wrote:
> Toyota is losing its halo
>
> Guido Reinking
> Automotive News Europe
>
> October 20, 2008 14:59 CET
>
> When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker
> intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more
> than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality.
> I was one of the skeptics.
>
> Overtake Toyota - the industry's gold standard for productivity,
> quality assurance, efficiency and customer orientation - to say
> nothing of global profit- and sales leader? Impossible!
>
> But look again: The top dog is losing its aura of invincibility.
>
> In Germany, sales are off 22 percent this year. In the U.S., Toyota
> has been hit even harder. Its sales there collapsed 32.3 percent in
> September, worse even than the fall taken by sickly General Motors.
>
> Contrary to popular perception, Toyota's dazzling growth over the past
> 10 years has been led by light trucks, not the gas-sipping small cars
> and hybrids that are so associated with its brand. Sales of its large
> vehicles - SUVs, crossovers, pickups and luxury Lexus sedans - have
> more than doubled in the past decade.
>
> That is why the current automotive crisis is hitting Toyota harder
> than many other manufacturers. Its profit is projected to decline by
> as much as 40 percent this fiscal year, which would yield a margin of
> barely 6 percent. That would put it on VW's level.
>
> There is little doubt that Toyota will remain the global sales leader
> for some years to come. But there is danger in that success. Becoming
> No. 1 demands different qualities than staying No. 1. Can the company
> do both?
>
> In that sense, it may be fortunate for Toyota that Volkswagen has
> vowed to overtake it. That's because Toyota, without meaningful
> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.

What light trucks, I never saw one, all I saw was a tundra, what bs
the camry, corola, prius and small suv are the big ones. VW isnt
taking anybody past.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:53:07 -0400, Gary L. Burnore wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:44:47 -0400, Hachiroku ???? >
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:54:05 -0700, SMS wrote:
>>
>>>> When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker
>>>> intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more
>>>> than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality. I
>>>> was one of the skeptics.
>>>
>>> Well most in the U.S. don't realize that VW is currently the #3
>>> automaker world wide because VW doesn't sell much in the U.S. any more.
>>>
>>> Quality wise, VW has a long way to go, especially in the U.S. where
>>> owners expect their vehicles to endure a lot more abuse in terms of lack
>>> of maintenance. I've owned both VWs and Toyotas. The VWs tended to last
>>> longer, but I am fastidious about maintenance. The Toyotas that my
>>> relatives have owned have been abused to levels that VWs would not
>>> tolerate.
>>
>>Dude, even on cars we disagree!
>>
>>I bought an '85 Jetta
>
> More proof you're a ****ing moron.


Every time you open your mouth you weaken the nation.

"ransley" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 21, 8:01 am, "C. E. White" >
wrote:
> Toyota is losing its halo
>
> Guido Reinking
> Automotive News Europe
>
> October 20, 2008 14:59 CET
>
> When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker
> intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more
> than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality.
> I was one of the skeptics.
>
> Overtake Toyota - the industry's gold standard for productivity,
> quality assurance, efficiency and customer orientation - to say
> nothing of global profit- and sales leader? Impossible!
>
> But look again: The top dog is losing its aura of invincibility.
>
> In Germany, sales are off 22 percent this year. In the U.S., Toyota
> has been hit even harder. Its sales there collapsed 32.3 percent in
> September, worse even than the fall taken by sickly General Motors.
>
> Contrary to popular perception, Toyota's dazzling growth over the past
> 10 years has been led by light trucks, not the gas-sipping small cars
> and hybrids that are so associated with its brand. Sales of its large
> vehicles - SUVs, crossovers, pickups and luxury Lexus sedans - have
> more than doubled in the past decade.
>
> That is why the current automotive crisis is hitting Toyota harder
> than many other manufacturers. Its profit is projected to decline by
> as much as 40 percent this fiscal year, which would yield a margin of
> barely 6 percent. That would put it on VW's level.
>
> There is little doubt that Toyota will remain the global sales leader
> for some years to come. But there is danger in that success. Becoming
> No. 1 demands different qualities than staying No. 1. Can the company
> do both?
>
> In that sense, it may be fortunate for Toyota that Volkswagen has
> vowed to overtake it. That's because Toyota, without meaningful
> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.

What light trucks, I never saw one, all I saw was a tundra, what bs
the camry, corola, prius and small suv are the big ones. VW isnt
taking anybody past.

Troll, Troll,Trolll.

That's because Toyota, without meaningful
> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.


What a load of bullocks , troll. Exactly what competion is missing.
You are full of crap about Toyota. Toyota is all about cars. Cars so
much that they jumped into trucks from scratch and took over off their
profits and return customers. GMs best trucks are still 88 to 94s.
Toyota hasn't stopped doing anything. The Corolla and Scion are the
****. I know two people getting over 40 mpg in Corollas. I'm getting 38 in
an Echo beating it too death all day long. The dealership just bought me
a drive shaft, brakes, radio, transmission, , and wheel bearing . And
remounted my air box that got torn out from vibration. VW isn't taking
over anything either. They're lucky they are still in business in the US .
They only compete with themselves. Because it takes twice the labor to make
the same type of car as others do. So they cant sell a car at the right
price as everyone else. See their latest commercial targeting their only
customers. Clueless 18 year olds. Lets have a baby so we can buy a VW.
Haaaa!!!

"None4You" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "ransley" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Oct 21, 8:01 am, "C. E. White" >
> wrote:
>> Toyota is losing its halo
>>
>> Guido Reinking
>> Automotive News Europe
>>
>> October 20, 2008 14:59 CET
>>
>> When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker
>> intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more
>> than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality.
>> I was one of the skeptics.
>>
>> Overtake Toyota - the industry's gold standard for productivity,
>> quality assurance, efficiency and customer orientation - to say
>> nothing of global profit- and sales leader? Impossible!
>>
>> But look again: The top dog is losing its aura of invincibility.
>>
>> In Germany, sales are off 22 percent this year. In the U.S., Toyota
>> has been hit even harder. Its sales there collapsed 32.3 percent in
>> September, worse even than the fall taken by sickly General Motors.
>>
>> Contrary to popular perception, Toyota's dazzling growth over the past
>> 10 years has been led by light trucks, not the gas-sipping small cars
>> and hybrids that are so associated with its brand. Sales of its large
>> vehicles - SUVs, crossovers, pickups and luxury Lexus sedans - have
>> more than doubled in the past decade.
>>
>> That is why the current automotive crisis is hitting Toyota harder
>> than many other manufacturers. Its profit is projected to decline by
>> as much as 40 percent this fiscal year, which would yield a margin of
>> barely 6 percent. That would put it on VW's level.
>>
>> There is little doubt that Toyota will remain the global sales leader
>> for some years to come. But there is danger in that success. Becoming
>> No. 1 demands different qualities than staying No. 1. Can the company
>> do both?
>>
>> In that sense, it may be fortunate for Toyota that Volkswagen has
>> vowed to overtake it. That's because Toyota, without meaningful
>> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.
>
> What light trucks, I never saw one, all I saw was a tundra, what bs
> the camry, corola, prius and small suv are the big ones. VW isnt
> taking anybody past.
>
> Troll, Troll,Trolll.
>
> That's because Toyota, without meaningful
>> competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.
>
>
> What a load of bullocks , troll. Exactly what competion is missing.
> You are full of crap about Toyota. Toyota is all about cars. Cars so
> much that they jumped into trucks from scratch and took over off their
> profits and return customers. GMs best trucks are still 88 to 94s.
> Toyota hasn't stopped doing anything. The Corolla and Scion are the
> ****. I know two people getting over 40 mpg in Corollas. I'm getting 38
> in an Echo beating it too death all day long. The dealership just
> bought me a drive shaft, brakes, radio, transmission, , and wheel bearing
> . And remounted my air box that got torn out from vibration. VW isn't
> taking over anything either. They're lucky they are still in business in
> the US . They only compete with themselves. Because it takes twice the
> labor to make the same type of car as others do. So they cant sell a car
> at the right price as everyone else. See their latest commercial
> targeting their only customers. Clueless 18 year olds. Lets have a baby
> so we can buy a VW. Haaaa!!!
>And Toyota just posted . The Corolla sales are up 6.1 percent from last
>month. . Although all other vehicles are down. Like everybody else.