Slower traffic: keep one lane left of the right lane

Harry K wrote "...You can avoid all the problems with your mythical 'ass hats' by just getting one lane over, keeping up with traffic and staying there until you are about ready to exit. "

All you're doing Harry is encouraging right-hand lane passing.

On a typical three lane interstate, such as I-95, the rules are, keep right except to pass. The right lane is the main travel lane for outsized vehicles, such as tractor-trailers and buses, and for automobiles and motorcycles **observing the posted speed limits**. How difficult is that to understand?

The center lane is for autombiles, cycles, and light trucks who want to travel faster than the trucks in the right-hand lane. It also serves as passing for large trucks & buses.

The left-most lane is for automotive/cycle passing - period.

The key to all the above working is *observing posted speed limits* in the right-most lane. Drivers getting on should have no trouble merging from on-ramp into that lane if traffic in that lane is AT or slightly BELOW the speed limit.

Under the Harry K(and o.p.) system everyone getting on said I-95 would have to merge across the right-most lane, risking getting rear-ended by all the other Harry Ks passing on the right at some 60-70mph!

Arif Khokar whined "On 12/17/2013 04:28 PM, wrote:
[Correcting post format because you can't be bothered to use a
newsreader that works properly].

Get a real newsreader program like Thunderbird and sign up for a free
account on http://www.eternal-september.org/ instead of using the crapSNIP"

_____________
Get your panties out of... whatever you possess, stop worrying about what newsreader I use, and keep the F__K on TOPIC.

<the little > took this crap in the newsgroup:
> Arif Khokar whined "On 12/17/2013 04:28 PM,
> wrote:
> [Correcting post format because you can't be bothered to use a
> newsreader that works properly].
>
> Get a real newsreader program like Thunderbird and sign up for a
> free
> account on http://www.eternal-september.org/ instead of using the
> crapSNIP"
>
> _____________
> Get your panties out of... whatever you possess, stop worrying about
> what newsreader I use, and keep the F__K on TOPIC.

Little Chrisssssie Kbaby shouldn't be expected to post like a grownup.
He's just too Stupid. So Stupid that he seems to think that people can
read his mind just because he blinks some lights. He's also bragged
about tailgating too close, and several other ways he likes to Drive
While Stupid. Little Chrissie K-moron isn't the sharpest tool in the
shed. He wishes everyone were as Stupid as he is, but that's some
serious Stupid he's got going on! DWS. Driving While Stupid.

On 2013-12-19, Harry K > wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:20:20 PM UTC-8, Brent wrote:
>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>> > On 2013-12-18 22:00:02 +0000, Brent said:
>>
>>
>
><snip>
>
>> No I want to get where I am going safely and efficiently. People like
>>
>> that are incapable of learning a lesson and not worth my time to teach
>>
>> them one. I just go and they stop like they are supposed to. They
>>
>> know what they are supposed to do, they just won't do it if they don't
>>
>> have to. They want to push the work and delays on to others. All
>>
>> you are doing is breeding more of these lazy drivers by catering to
>>
>> them. You are building their sense of entitlement. You're
>>
>> enabling them. It just keeps getting worse.

> Don't you ever get tired of making ridiculous assumptions?

I didn't. You could also learn to format your usenet posts properly so
I don't have to do it.

> You can avoid all the problems with your mythical 'ass hats' by just
> getting one lane over, keeping up with traffic and staying there
> until you are about ready to exit.

I'm not a selfish lazy driver like you. I actually practice proper lane
discipline.

> Causes no problems to you or anyone.

Bull****. I have to deal with middle lane cruisers all the time. A
simple pass of someone in the right lane means I have to make two or
more lane changes left, then the same number back to the right.

> Anyone wanting to pass will be one more lane (or more) over.

Those lanes are filled with other lazy drivers who don't like the
disruptions in the second lane from the right. The rightmost lane is
usually the clearest lane because lazy drivers don't drive there.
There's just the occasional slow driver who knows where he should be
and the merge impaired.

> If it is a two lane, keeping up with traffic solves the passing
> problem as no one could pass even if you weren't there.

They drive side by ****ing side. I've been on the dan ryan at 2am and
there are just enough other drivers for one car per lane and they are
all side by side blocking anyone from passing.

> On freeways with 3 or more lanes there should be "through traffic
> use lane 2" signs posted.

HAHAHAhAHAHA. No. In Illinois the signs say "TRUCKS RIGHT 2 LANES" And
the truckers don't obey those.

> You complain about stupid mergers but refuse to do the logical thing
> to avoid them.

Because it compounds the problem. It makes matters worse. It's lazy
driving. Just because other drivers are lazy doesn't make more laziness
a solution.

> In your universe lane one would be bumper to bumper
> and lanes to the left have sparse traffic with only ones passing
> being there. Take a look next time you are out there and see how
> multiple lanes are traveling very near the same speed with only the
> far left one being noticeably faster.

In my universe, limited access highways look like they do in Germany.
Works quite well. Get on a plane, rent a car, and try it.

On 2013-12-19, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>> On 2013-12-18 22:00:02 +0000, Brent said:
>>>
>>>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>>>> On 2013-12-18 19:13:59 +0000, Brent said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2013-12-18 04:47:39 +0000, Arif Khokar said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/17/2013 04:28 PM, wrote:
>>>>>>>> [Correcting post format because you can't be bothered to use a
>>>>>>>> newsreader that works properly].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get a real newsreader program like Thunderbird and sign up for a
>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>> account on http://www.eternal-september.org/ instead of using the
>>>>>>>> crap
>>>>>>>> Google groups interface.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Harry K wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "As for fliking your lights, there isn't one person out there in a
>>>>>>>>>> thousand that would have a clue about what you are doing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then none of them should be driving.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's called "flash to pass".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you wrote in the post that Harry K responded to was:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> #1. If I am approaching onramp(one-quarter to one-eighth mile
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> it) and vehicle is ahead of me in said onramp making good speed, I
>>>>>>>>> shall flick my highbeams for them to proceed into highway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you're using your flash-to-pass feature to indicate that someone
>>>>>>>> should merge onto the highway, then you're misusing the feature.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> merger may interpret your signal that you're going to pass him and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> has to slow down and merge behind you, or that you're a jerk and are
>>>>>>>> speeding up to prevent his merge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The flash-to-pass feature is used to indicate to the driver ahead of
>>>>>>>> you that you intend to pass and that they should move out of the
>>>>>>>> passing lane. It's not supposed to be used to indicate that you
>>>>>>>> intend
>>>>>>>> to let the driver merge in front of you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When approaching an interchange, just maintain a constant speed and
>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> the merger figure out how to position their vehicle to merge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, but I don't put my safety into the hands of others when I can
>>>>>>> possibly avoid it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most lazy drivers are just lazy, not suicidal. Thus not showing them a
>>>>>> reaction prevents them from doing what would bring about a collision.
>>>>>> When I stopped having any reaction they could see, the less idiocy
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> did.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you think the best way to ensure your safety is to HOPE the other
>>>>> driver doesn't get it wrong?
>>>>
>>>> There's no hope involved. I am fully aware of him and ready to take
>>>> action to avoid him. I just don't let him know it,doing so is an
>>>> engraved invitation for him to cut me off from his POV.
>>>
>>> Pre-emptive action to avoid a threat is better than reaction...
>>> ...sorry, but it just is.
>>
>> Then you think you're safe and the asshat decides since you made way
>> for him once you'll do it twice. Ever see someone about to turn out on
>> a road so you slow down and then they wait and they wait and you're
>> about 5 feet from them and they pull out? Know how I reduced that? I
>> stopped taking "pre-emptive action". Stopped giving these lazy asshats
>> a tell. Same thing when they are merging. I move over for one of these
>> people and guess what happens next? They decide the right lane isn't
>> good enough for them and since I accomodated them once.... They just
>> plow into the next lane to the left.
>>
>>
> I get it, you don't understand turning, you don't understand how to merge.

> If the driver ahead of you is about to turn out, you don't make a collision
> course toward them and force them to turn sooner. You slow down and wait for
> the turn, simple as that.

The hell? Read the ****ing vehicle code. Traffic on the road has right
of way. The person turning upon it does not. It's made up bull**** like
this that brings about the sense of entitlement of lazy asshats who
think they don't have to yield to enter a roadway. They just pull out
and expect other people to brake and make way for them. Further more
slowing traffic on the road for these self entitled idiots who are too
lazy to wait for gap causes congestion. This social made up bull**** is
why driving sucks. It worked in rural Nebraska in 1932 when there
were only two people on the road at any given time and knew each
other but it doesn't scale to major metro areas in the 21st century.

> I've already addressed your inability to merge properly in another post.

I don't need people on the road to adjust to me to merge upon it. I
don't force other drivers to adjust to me, that means I know how to
merge and you don't.

> You DO want to teach other drivers a lesson and you want to get to your
> destination as you perceive as safe for you while making drivers do what you
> want at the expense of them risking an accident.

You're actually adovcating for people who turn in front of traffic that
has the right of way. Saying I am wrong for proceeding on a green
signal. It's not teaching them a lesson, it's asserting myself so that
traffic actually flows. I've been behind people like you who don't go
and the left turners from the other direction are for all practical
purposes infinite. By the time one of them actually stops because the
arrow expired a number of cars earlier there isn't enough green for
those of us a few cars behind your kind to get through the
intersection. There are people behind the A pillars of your driving
appliance besides you that have places to go.

On 2013-12-19, Harry K > wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:20:20 PM UTC-8, Brent wrote:
>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>
> One other thing:
>
> Get over the idea that you are 'teaching anyone a lesson" There are
> two possibilities:

Again, it's not teaching anyone a lesson. Although you need to be
taught a lesson on formating usenet posts. I want to get through the
intersection and be courteous to the people behind me so they don't
have to wait through another cycle.

> 1. The 'ass hat' doesn't know he has done anything wrong and still
> doesn't even afterward. Even worse doesn't even know you did it.

I don't really give a flying **** so long as the left turning conga
line stops, and the way to stop it is to simply proceed. They stop.

> 2. He does know and either doesn't care or even does it
> deliberately to **** you off. If he does recognize what you did he
> just laughs and calls _you_ the ass hat.

Again, I really don't give a **** so long as I get through the
intersection on the green signal for my direction of travel.

I don't care if they think I am in the wrong, they can go sit down with
Jesse White's little book if they want to figure it out or not. Or like
two drivers who did this **** in front of me, get pulled over by a cop
who saw it. Then the cop can tell them what they did wrong. Yes Harry,
I do this with cops present. I even proceeded when a cop
decided to congaline. I stopped in the middle of the intersection when
he was on a cell phone and passed by... didn't realize his arrow
expired before the car in front of him turned. He came after me,
screamed at me, stomped his boots... but guess what Harry, no ticket.
He had no grounds. All he could do was behave like Eric Cartman.

And with mergers, the same thing. I really don't care what they think.
I am just not going to do the work for them. I am not going to get out
of position on road and then have to deal with other problems to cater
to lazy driving.

On 2013-12-19, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>> On 2013-12-18 19:13:59 +0000, Brent said:
>>>
>>>> On 2013-12-18, Alan Baker > wrote:
>>>>> On 2013-12-18 04:47:39 +0000, Arif Khokar said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/17/2013 04:28 PM, wrote:
>>>>>> [Correcting post format because you can't be bothered to use a
>>>>>> newsreader that works properly].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get a real newsreader program like Thunderbird and sign up for a free
>>>>>> account on http://www.eternal-september.org/ instead of using the crap
>>>>>> Google groups interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harry K wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "As for fliking your lights, there isn't one person out there in a
>>>>>>>> thousand that would have a clue about what you are doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then none of them should be driving.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's called "flash to pass".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you wrote in the post that Harry K responded to was:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #1. If I am approaching onramp(one-quarter to one-eighth mile before
>>>>>>> it) and vehicle is ahead of me in said onramp making good speed, I
>>>>>>> shall flick my highbeams for them to proceed into highway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you're using your flash-to-pass feature to indicate that someone
>>>>>> should merge onto the highway, then you're misusing the feature. The
>>>>>> merger may interpret your signal that you're going to pass him and he
>>>>>> has to slow down and merge behind you, or that you're a jerk and are
>>>>>> speeding up to prevent his merge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The flash-to-pass feature is used to indicate to the driver ahead of
>>>>>> you that you intend to pass and that they should move out of the
>>>>>> passing lane. It's not supposed to be used to indicate that you
>>>>>> intend
>>>>>> to let the driver merge in front of you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When approaching an interchange, just maintain a constant speed and
>>>>>> let
>>>>>> the merger figure out how to position their vehicle to merge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but I don't put my safety into the hands of others when I can
>>>>> possibly avoid it.
>>>>
>>>> Most lazy drivers are just lazy, not suicidal. Thus not showing them a
>>>> reaction prevents them from doing what would bring about a collision.
>>>> When I stopped having any reaction they could see, the less idiocy they
>>>> did.
>>>
>>> So you think the best way to ensure your safety is to HOPE the other
>>> driver doesn't get it wrong?
>>
>> There's no hope involved. I am fully aware of him and ready to take
>> action to avoid him. I just don't let him know it,doing so is an
>> engraved invitation for him to cut me off from his POV.

> If you haven't passed the merger by the time the ramp intersects with the
> highway (usually the solid line becomes a dashed line and then the dashed
> line terminates to complete the merge lane), you had better slow down or
> merge left one lane if you have a lane to the left--you are already too
> close to pass without forcing the merger off the road. Furthermore, the
> merger shouldn't have to slow down since the ramp is intended for, you know,
> so they can match the speed of thru traffic and merge in.
>
> Right of way of thru traffic doesn't mean making collision courses for
> mergers or last minute passes to make them brake or be run off the road.

So just make things up when you don't have an argument.

On 2013-12-19, Arif Khokar > wrote:
> On 12/19/2013 12:43 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
>> If you haven't passed the merger by the time the ramp intersects with
>> the highway (usually the solid line becomes a dashed line and then the
>> dashed line terminates to complete the merge lane), you had better slow
>> down or merge left one lane if you have a lane to the left--you are
>> already too close to pass without forcing the merger off the road.
>
> How about if you're merging onto the highway and you see through traffic
> that will pass the same point you describe above at the same time you'll
> get there proceeding at your current speed, then you, the merger, should
> slow down and fall in behind them.
>
> You are not supposed to slow down on the highway if at all possible. In
> more dense traffic situations, it eventually leads to a rubbernecking
> effect that slows a substantial amount of traffic down to a standstill.
> It's better for traffic to come to a stop on the entrance ramp rather
> than the main highway.
>
>> Furthermore, the merger shouldn't have to slow down since the ramp is
>> intended for, you know, so they can match the speed of thru traffic and
>> merge in.
>
> The merger is supposed to adjust their speed to find a position to merge
> in, That can involve slowing down or speeding up. It's actually best
> to be going a little too fast on the approach since cars can slow down
> far faster than they can accelerate.
>
>> Right of way of thru traffic doesn't mean making collision courses for
>> mergers or last minute passes to make them brake or be run off the road.
>
> Mergers aren't supposed to time their merges to be on a collision course
> with through traffic. It's their responsibility to make adjustments
> such that they find a gap in traffic on their own. Through traffic
> simply has to maintain a constant speed and sufficient space between
> vehicles.

But that can't be done without mirrors, side windows, or rear windows.
Using those things is just too difficult for lazy drivers.

On 2013-12-19 02:20:20 +0000, Brent said:

>>>>>> Sorry, but I don't put my safety into the hands of others when I can
>>>>>> possibly avoid it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most lazy drivers are just lazy, not suicidal. Thus not showing them a
>>>>> reaction prevents them from doing what would bring about a collision.
>>>>> When I stopped having any reaction they could see, the less idiocy they
>>>>> did.
>>>>
>>>> So you think the best way to ensure your safety is to HOPE the other
>>>> driver doesn't get it wrong?
>>>
>>> There's no hope involved. I am fully aware of him and ready to take
>>> action to avoid him. I just don't let him know it,doing so is an
>>> engraved invitation for him to cut me off from his POV.
>>
>> Pre-emptive action to avoid a threat is better than reaction...
>> ...sorry, but it just is.
>
> Then you think you're safe and the asshat decides since you made way
> for him once you'll do it twice. Ever see someone about to turn out on

Your thesis is that the "asshat" is oblivious to my presence, so that
won't wash.

> a road so you slow down and then they wait and they wait and you're
> about 5 feet from them and they pull out? Know how I reduced that? I
> stopped taking "pre-emptive action". Stopped giving these lazy asshats
> a tell. Same thing when they are merging. I move over for one of these
> people and guess what happens next? They decide the right lane isn't
> good enough for them and since I accomodated them once.... They just
> plow into the next lane to the left.

That's possible, but irrelevant. Leaving yourself in the right lane
with people you describe as "asshats" merging into it and leaving it to
them to avoid you places you at greater risk.

By your reasoning, there's no point in opening an adequate following
distance, because an "asshat" will just fill it.

>
>
>>>>>> That's why I'll move one lane to the left if there is anyone whose
>>>>>> entry to the highway could potentially cause me trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> IME those who move over largely put their safety in the hands of the
>>>>> drivers already there and passing. Also moving over a lane just
>>>>> encourages the idiot to merge two lanes in IME. He wants to be in the
>>>>> left lane anyway and by moving over I showed that I see him and would
>>>>> accomodate him so he cuts in front of me.
>>>>
>>>> I find it hilarious that on the one hand you'll insist that I needn't
>>>> move over because you have such faith in the other driver who's merging
>>>> into my lane...
>>>
>>> I don't and it's hilarious you think I do.
>
>> You do:
>> "Most lazy drivers are just lazy, not suicidal."
>
> That's not faith in them. They are still lazy asshats. By not catering
> to them they are much less likely to give me problems.

Only if you believe that your behaviour will change their in the long run...

....IOW, you ARE trying to teach them a lesson, just as I thought.

I don't CARE about the long run when I'm approaching an on ramp and I
see a potential conflict with someone about to merge onto the highway.
My concern at that moment is for what is the safest place for me to be.
By looking well ahead and anticipating potential conflicts, I put
myself where it is safest to be. If that happens to be the left lane
when there is no one whom I need to pass, so be it.

>
>
>>>> ...while not also applying the same faith to me in my lane change,
>>>> which is by its nature taking place between vehicles moving at a very
>>>> similar speed; something which too often cannot be said about the
>>>> person merging into highway traffic.
>>>
>>> I didn't put any faith or lack there of in your lane change. However
>>> I also have to watch the ramps if I am in the 2nd lane from the right
>>> because drivers who make way for mergers usually demand others make way
>>> for their merges and lane changes too. Speed usually doesn't matter and
>>> these idiots usually are braking as they move over to let the merger in.
>
>> Then they've moved over far too late.
>
> I still have to avoid them... and they haven't bothered to use mirrors
> or signal just like those they are making way for.

What others MIGHT be doing has nothing to do with what I AM doing.

>
>>> My view is that fundamentally the north american driver is a lazy ****
>>> who doesn't want to put any effort into driving. If I show them I will
>>> cater to their laziness, they will take full advantage of it, putting
>>> my safety at risk. Thus I do not.Ever see a left turn conga line? When
>>> does it stop? With a left turner who isn't an asshole or someone going
>>> straight from the other side has the balls to just go. These lazy
>>> jackasses take as much as they think they can get. Until someone doesn't
>>> cater to them.
>>
>> Yup. I get it. You want to teach people a lesson.
>> I want to get through traffic as safely as possible.
>
> No I want to get where I am going safely and efficiently. People like
> that are incapable of learning a lesson and not worth my time to teach
> them one. I just go and they stop like they are supposed to. They
> know what they are supposed to do, they just won't do it if they don't
> have to. They want to push the work and delays on to others. All
> you are doing is breeding more of these lazy drivers by catering to
> them. You are building their sense of entitlement. You're
> enabling them. It just keeps getting worse.

So let me see if I understand you:

You claim that by me taking preemptive action for the sole reason of
improving my safety margin, I am "enabling them" and teaching them that
they can be lazy...

....but when CHOOSE to force them to not be "lazy" by putting yourself
at risk...

....your motivation ISN'T to teach them something.

So what IS your motive for putting yourself at greater risk than the
absolute minimum, Brent? I'd really like to know.

<snip>

Back in the kill file with you.

PLONK.