Wrangler YJ ignition switch problem

Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
the starter.

My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.

How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
show you where it is or how to get at it.

Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
steering column. Any advice?

The switch is down at the bottom of the column on the top.

I 'think' there are two green wires on the starter relay that control
the starter. I also know if you have these reversed, the starter just
cranks.

Did any other wires smoke out?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
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wrote:
> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
> the starter.
>
> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>
> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>
> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
> steering column. Any advice?
>

I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
unlikely to me.

The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
it goes.

wrote:
> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
> unlikely to me.
>
> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
> it goes.
>

The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.

As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
battery power.

Try swapping them.

Mike

On May 18, 7:04 pm, Mike Romain > wrote:
> wrote:
> > I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
> > that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
> > there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
> > starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
> > firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
> > unlikely to me.
>
> > The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
> > I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
> > look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
> > that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
> > rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
> > it goes.
>
> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>
> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
> relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
> battery power.
>
> Try swapping them.
>
> Mike

Check the negative ground cable. Battery to block. I had one go bad
and it did the same thing.

Greg

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
g.com...
> wrote:
>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>> unlikely to me.
>>
>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>> it goes.
>>
>
> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>
> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall relay/solenoid
> unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with battery power.
>
> Try swapping them.



WAIT -- STOP

Mike,
You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong, therefore
his Jeep must be broken.



I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken, and is
holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he connects
the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even if the key is
currently set to OFF.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
> the starter.
>
> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>
> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>
> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
> steering column. Any advice?
>


Let's back up a step of two and start over.

If you turn the key (Ignition Lock Set) and it does not feel right, then I
suggest you have broken parts in the steering column. You have already said
that you think that the Ignition Switch is stuck in the START position, I
agree. If this is true, then the key will feel odd -- less resistance than
you might expect, the lack of detents as it passes through other settings,
that sort of thing.

I would not mess around trying to install remote start switches, I would fix
the broken parts you already have. (I see no point in adding in new parts to
break and confuse the situation in 5 or 10 years.)

I have an '81 CJ5, and a '95 Ford Bronco, both of which had variations on
the same problem you are having. Both had repair parts available on the
aftermarket for just a few dollars. Of the two, the Jeep was cheaper and
easier to repair, but I digress.

You will need to remove the steering wheel and the Steering Lock Plate (you
need a special puller for the lock plate. Autozone has a Free Tool Loaner
Program that included the lock plate tool, or you can buy a tool for about
$10.). When the lock plate is out, you will see the broken linkage parts,
and all you need do is devise the proper route to get it out. Whether or not
you have Tilt Steering will alter the directions to get the linkage out, and
which linkage part you need to repair the trouble.

The linkage is a standard GM part. The aftermarket supplier is called HELP
Brand, and if I rember right, the blister package is backed with red paper.
(There are different colors of blister packs for the various areas of the
vehicle that the part(s) in the package are to be used on.) In my case, I
found the HELP Brand parts at Pep Boys -- a very large retail autoparts
store. I have found HELP parts at other stores, but the small store on the
corner by my house simply lacks the floor space to carry a wide selection.
Your corner store may carry the part you need, but if they don't then you
can drive across town to the huge autoparts store and probably find the
right part in stock.

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> g.com...
>> wrote:
>>> I don't have any evidence that there are any wires burnt out. Given
>>> that I've replaced the firewall solenoid, battery, and starter, is
>>> there anything else besides an ignition switch that would cause the
>>> starter motor to crank uncontrollably? Is it possible I wired the new
>>> firewall solenoid wrong and that's what's causing it? That seems
>>> unlikely to me.
>>>
>>> The ignition switch is pretty difficult to get at - I'm still not sure
>>> I'm even able to see it. Is there anything in particular I should
>>> look for (many wires, few wires, blue clip, white clip, etc) to know
>>> that I've definitely found the ignition switch? I see the ignition
>>> rod... thingy... disappear down in there somewhere but can't see where
>>> it goes.
>>>
>>
>> The switch is at the bottom end of the rod.
>>
>> As I mentioned, there are two green wires on that firewall
>> relay/solenoid unit that are easy to mix then it just starts with
>> battery power.
>>
>> Try swapping them.
>
>
>
> WAIT -- STOP
>
> Mike,
> You are going at this from the direction that he screwed up on his
> replacement, but his problem began before he did anything and continued
> afterward. This tells me that he probably has done nothing wrong,
> therefore his Jeep must be broken.
>
>
>
> I think his trouble is that the Ignition Lock Set Linkage has broken,
> and is holding the Ignition Switch to the START position. As soon as he
> connects the battery terminal, the starter motor begins to crank, even
> if the key is currently set to OFF.

Good call, I won't disagree.

If he pulls the switch he will find out. It is easier to do with the
door off or open all the way with the strap off.

I really was thinking his meltdown got some other wires like the starter
trigger because I have seen this happen before. The heat took out the
firewall relay and some upstream wires when the relay shorted.

Mike

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Here's what happened: I started my jeep ('87 YJ 4.2L) and the starter
>> kept cranking, would not disengage. I didn't know what was happening
>> and drove off. It sucked all the juice out of my battery and burnt up
>> the starter.
>>
>> My first thought was that my solenoid (the part that sends juice from
>> the battery to the starter) was stuck. I replaced my solenoid,
>> starter motor, and battery. When everything was in place I connected
>> the leads on my battery and the jeep turned over (and would have
>> started) even though the ignition switch (the one on the steering
>> column) was set to 'off'. So I think the ignition switch on the
>> steering column is stuck in the 'start' position.
>>
>> How do you replace that thing? Where is it, is it right there where
>> you put the key in? Do I need to take the steering wheel off and get
>> to it that way? Chilton is pretty useless here, they really don't
>> show you where it is or how to get at it.
>>
>> Next question - which wire on my solenoid comes from the steering
>> column? I'm considering a simple 'on-off' switch and a starter button
>> simply because I can't find where the starter switch is on the
>> steering column. Any advice?
>>
>
>
> Let's back up a step of two and start over.
>

I think he should pull the switch at the 'bottom' which is easy first to
verify if that is the trouble or not before ripping the wheel apart...

Mike

Thanks for the discussion.

UPDATE: Just now I switched the two bright green wires going to the
firewall solenoid. When I connected the battery nothing happened
(that's good!) but when I tried to crank it nothing happened (that's
bad!). I did get lights on my dash, don't know what that means. I'm
fairly confident that I had them in the right place to begin with as
the copper fins they connect to are different - one is slotted and
one is not.

Just out of curiosity, what are the wires going to and coming out of
the solenoid? On the left we have current in from the battery and
three other dark green (?) wires. All those are mashed together by a
nut on the left hand bolt. On the right we have one big wire going
from the solenoid to the starter. There are two bolts on the front of
the solenoid. On the left-front bolt there is a copper fin with a
bright green wire coming off of it. On the right front bolt there is
another copper fin with another bright green wire coming off. Also on
the right front bolt is a wire with a rubber booted connector that
slides over the front of the bolt. I understand two wires - "battery
in" and "out to starter". What/where do all those other wires do/go?
How does the ignition switch talk to the solenoid? I'm an engineer
and I just don't feel right unless I understand what I'm working with!

Thanks for the help.