Should this trooper be fired?

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:31:31 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>
>"DTJ" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:25:40 -0800, The Real Bev
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Does anybody know for an actual fact that jaybird is a real live law
>>>enforcement officer? Is it not possible that he's an anti-cop troll? I
>>>know he's certainly decreased MY respect for the average everyday cop.
>>>
>>>I've known only one cop, and that was 50 years ago. He seemed just
>>>about as arrogant.
>>
>> You have a point, because of all the cops I know, I have never met one
>> that is as much of an asshole as jaybird is. I know dozens who are
>> fine, outstanding people, who condemn his views every time I show them
>> what he says. One, a state cop in Illinois, has basically said he
>> would like to go visit jaybird in texas and leave him in the gulf.
>
>That's strange. All the cops I know agree with me.

What LEA do you work for, jaybird?

I've had some experience with Texas cops. No, I've never been
arrested, so you can forget the idea that I'm just bitter over the
fact that I got caught.

IME, city cops are the worst, be they big city cops or small town
cops. Although many of them seemed to be genuinely doing their best
to do a good job, many of them seemed to be totally intent on abusing
their power as much as possible, which included sleeping on the job.

State troopers on the whole seemed to be a higher class of cop - just
my experience, maybe they're not.

I do remember the off-duty cops who worked security at the planetarium
I used to run laser shows at. I once marched 3 drunken assholes out
to the security officer's post after I caught them ****ing on a mural
just outside the door to the planetarium. ****ing HPD rent-a-cop was
sleeping on the job and by the time he came to, the drunks had
wandered off to the rest rooms.

It's actually kind of amazing that I was able to herd the drunks all
the way to his post in the first place.

So, after this piece of **** (it could have been jaybird - I don't
know that he doesn't work for HPD) woke up out of his (probably
alcohol-induced) sleep state, he asked what I expected him to do.

Well, at the very least, I expected him to toss those drunken
mural-****ers out of the museum. Arresting them certainly would have
been justified too.

But I was too disgusted by that point and besides - I had been letting
the planetarium show run itself for a good 5 minutes.

There was a state trooper that also worked security there sometimes.
He seemed like a decent human being, but he told me some stories that
I only hope were exagerrated or made up - tTales of New Orleans cops
throwing people threw plate glass windows for no reason and his
personal experiences with another HPD officer who had recently emptied
his sidearm into the back of an unarmed man he had pulled over for
running a red light.

Do you have any personal experiences with Tschrihart, jaybird? He
shot Byron Gillum to death. Perhaps you recall that incident. Even
if you don't, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why it was justified.
After all, who needs facts when you can make all the assumptions you
want.

"DTJ" > wrote in message
...

Has
> anyone ever met a cop as ignorant as jaybird?

I'm not passing judgment on jaybird, but do a Google search on "Jason Sery".

"jaybird" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>>> ink.net...
>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>
>> There was no harm other than his rudeness and
>>>>> there was no foul either.
>>>>
>>>> Easy for you to say--it wasn't your son who died.
>>>
>>> No it wasn't, and while that is a tragedy I still stick by my original
>>> response which was that I don't believe an 18 year veteran with an
>>> unblemished career should be fired for a comment.
>>
>> I think there are comments that are firing offenses, like racial
>> epithets, sexist denigrations, and lying in a report or under oath. But
>> for this, no.
>>
>> Even 15 days is still
>>> excessive.
>>
>> A 2 day rip is about right for this. It goes on his permanent record and
>> he'll probably miss a round or 2 of promotions. That should cover it.
>>
>> The responders were on the way and he made a rude comment.
>>> Those are about the only facts we really have.
>>
>> That set of comments (not just one, mind you) wreaked havoc on the
>> feelings of two parents who had just lost their son in an accident. At a
>> time like this, you think it's okay if a cop makes nasty comments?
>
> I never said it was okay under any circumstance, even still he had no way
> of knowing the person would die.

So a cop on duty can make inappropriate comments to victims of the type
Peasley made and not be disciplined, is that what you're saying?

Hey jaybird--there are two people agreeing on rad! How often does THAT
happen?

"jaybird" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "L Sternn" > wrote in message
>>
>> Real cop or poser, there are good and
>>>> bad cops. I always give cops a chance to show which kind they are
>>>> before forming an opinion.
>>>
>>> I would agree with that. I think that holds true in any profession
>>> though. There are doctors we like, and those we don't. Convenience
>>> store clerks... any profession has people in it that have different
>>> personalities.
>>
>> Except that convenient store clerks and physicians don't carry badges and
>> guns. They aren't allowed to kill people in the line of their work.
>> Consequently, cops have to be held to a different standard.
>
> True, but even though it's no excuse, nobody is perfect.
>
>>
>> Your
>>> definition of good cop or bad cop might be different from mine though.
>>> I see good cops as law abiding, professional, honest, and fair. Bad
>>> cops to me are criminals who lie, cheat, and steal and who deserve to be
>>> in jail. Just because a cop has an attitude about things that differs
>>> from mine, I don't automatically call them a bad cop.
>>
>> How about a cop with racist attitudes who target minorities for offenses
>> that they'd ignore from a white person, who takes verbal abuse
>> personally, and has a quick temper that affects his judgment in a crisis?
>> You think he's a good cop?
>
> Of course not. Some of those things are criminal offenses depending on
> the circumstances.
>
>>
>>> I'm a bit more defensive in here than usual because I'm about the only
>>> one around. People bash cops in here left and right and I just throw
>>> out some support now and then.
>>
>> So do quite a few others. But some cops don't take any criticism well,
>> constructive or otherwise.
>
> I agree. I know a few.
>
>>
>> There are a lot of angles of the job that I've seen
>>> that the average person wouldn't usually be privy to so I can better see
>>> some of the issues as understandable. I may sound calloused and harsh
>>> sometimes, but such is life at times.
>>
>> Life is harsh and calloused enough without those with the power of life
>> and liberty over citizens abusing their authority.
>
> Again, I agree. No one in this circumstance abused authority though.
> They may have been negligent in it, but not abusive.
>
>>
>> Take it for what it's worth because I
>>> don't always hand out teddy bears and candy canes. )
>>
>> Courtesy, respect, and dignity--they cost less than candy and toys. Can
>> you do that?
>
> Always.
>
> --
> ---
> jaybird
> ---
> I am not the cause of your problems.
> My actions are the result of your actions.
> Your life is not my fault.
>
>

"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "jaybird" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>> nk.net...
>>>
>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>>>> ink.net...
>>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>
>>> There was no harm other than his rudeness and
>>>>>> there was no foul either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy for you to say--it wasn't your son who died.
>>>>
>>>> No it wasn't, and while that is a tragedy I still stick by my original
>>>> response which was that I don't believe an 18 year veteran with an
>>>> unblemished career should be fired for a comment.
>>>
>>> I think there are comments that are firing offenses, like racial
>>> epithets, sexist denigrations, and lying in a report or under oath. But
>>> for this, no.
>>>
>>> Even 15 days is still
>>>> excessive.
>>>
>>> A 2 day rip is about right for this. It goes on his permanent record
>>> and he'll probably miss a round or 2 of promotions. That should cover
>>> it.
>>>
>>> The responders were on the way and he made a rude comment.
>>>> Those are about the only facts we really have.
>>>
>>> That set of comments (not just one, mind you) wreaked havoc on the
>>> feelings of two parents who had just lost their son in an accident. At
>>> a time like this, you think it's okay if a cop makes nasty comments?
>>
>> I never said it was okay under any circumstance, even still he had no way
>> of knowing the person would die.
>
> So a cop on duty can make inappropriate comments to victims of the type
> Peasley made and not be disciplined, is that what you're saying?

Nope, not at all.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Hey jaybird--there are two people agreeing on rad! How often does THAT
> happen?

Holy crap... that's almost unheard of! )

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:31:31 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"DTJ" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:25:40 -0800, The Real Bev
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Does anybody know for an actual fact that jaybird is a real live law
>>>>enforcement officer? Is it not possible that he's an anti-cop troll? I
>>>>know he's certainly decreased MY respect for the average everyday cop.
>>>>
>>>>I've known only one cop, and that was 50 years ago. He seemed just
>>>>about as arrogant.
>>>
>>> You have a point, because of all the cops I know, I have never met one
>>> that is as much of an asshole as jaybird is. I know dozens who are
>>> fine, outstanding people, who condemn his views every time I show them
>>> what he says. One, a state cop in Illinois, has basically said he
>>> would like to go visit jaybird in texas and leave him in the gulf.
>>
>>That's strange. All the cops I know agree with me.
>
> What LEA do you work for, jaybird?

That's a little too personal for some of the clowns hanging around Usenet,
but it's a large department.

>
> I've had some experience with Texas cops. No, I've never been
> arrested, so you can forget the idea that I'm just bitter over the
> fact that I got caught.
>
> IME, city cops are the worst, be they big city cops or small town
> cops. Although many of them seemed to be genuinely doing their best
> to do a good job, many of them seemed to be totally intent on abusing
> their power as much as possible, which included sleeping on the job.

There aren't many abuses around here. Occasionally we'll get one or two bad
apples that have to be fired, and I don't think anyone around here has been
caught sleeping in I don't know how long. There just aren't any places to
hide to do that around here.

>
> State troopers on the whole seemed to be a higher class of cop - just
> my experience, maybe they're not.

I'd have to agree.

>
> I do remember the off-duty cops who worked security at the planetarium
> I used to run laser shows at. I once marched 3 drunken assholes out
> to the security officer's post after I caught them ****ing on a mural
> just outside the door to the planetarium. ****ing HPD rent-a-cop was
> sleeping on the job and by the time he came to, the drunks had
> wandered off to the rest rooms.
>
> It's actually kind of amazing that I was able to herd the drunks all
> the way to his post in the first place.
>
> So, after this piece of **** (it could have been jaybird - I don't
> know that he doesn't work for HPD) woke up out of his (probably
> alcohol-induced) sleep state, he asked what I expected him to do.

Now look... Here you go showing your maturity level again. I'm trying to
have a normal, adult conversation and haven't gotten personal with you.
What would lead you to believe that I'd ever sleep on duty, and if so that
it would be alcohol related?

>
> Well, at the very least, I expected him to toss those drunken
> mural-****ers out of the museum. Arresting them certainly would have
> been justified too.
>
> But I was too disgusted by that point and besides - I had been letting
> the planetarium show run itself for a good 5 minutes.
>
> There was a state trooper that also worked security there sometimes.
> He seemed like a decent human being, but he told me some stories that
> I only hope were exagerrated or made up - tTales of New Orleans cops
> throwing people threw plate glass windows for no reason and his
> personal experiences with another HPD officer who had recently emptied
> his sidearm into the back of an unarmed man he had pulled over for
> running a red light.
>
> Do you have any personal experiences with Tschrihart, jaybird? He
> shot Byron Gillum to death. Perhaps you recall that incident. Even
> if you don't, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why it was justified.
> After all, who needs facts when you can make all the assumptions you
> want.

I didn't even know who he was until I googled the name. Apparently he was a
cop who was fired 15 years ago over a shooting. No, I don't have any
personal experience with him.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:38:10 -0600, DTJ > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:16:11 -0700, L Sternn > wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:39:46 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The difference is most people are held accountable for things that
>>>>> they say and do.
>>>>>
>>>>> This cop could have been responsible for people dying, and you want to
>>>>> give him a pass.
>>>>
>>>>I believe that even in the follow up articles it was stated that his
>>>>comments had no effect on the response time.
>>>
>>>No harm, no foul?
>>
>>I like that angle. From now on, we should all be free to shoot at
>>every cop we see, as long as we don't actually hit them. Shooting at
>>them has no effect, thus we can't be arrested unless we actually hit
>>them somewhere they could be injured. Wait, I guess that means we can
>>shoot them in the head too.
>
> Heh - I already followed up that angle. Even if the shot was due to
> negligence, jaybird claimed it was a completely different situation.

It wasn't a claim, it was how the situation met the elements of the offense
of Deadly Conduct.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:36:01 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:49:30 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:07:59 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now, if the cop made an honest mistake, I would support him EVEN IF
>>>>>>>HE
>>>>>>>HAD A HISTORY of bad mistakes. The issue is the behavior in
>>>>>>>question,
>>>>>>>not how someone else behaves, nor what he did in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Usually before an employee can be fired for cause, a pattern of
>>>>>>unprofessional behavior must be documented. Unless you're Donald
>>>>>>Trump, you can't just tell an employee "you're fired" on impulse
>>>>>>(unless you want to be sued). You have to give the employee a
>>>>>>documented opportunity to "straighten up" before you can drop the axe.
>>>>>>I imagine these requirements are even more stringent in a strong union
>>>>>>environment such as the FOP. Bottom line, even if his boss wanted to
>>>>>>fire that trooper, he probably couldn't do it because of the 18 year
>>>>>>clean record.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps his superiors should be fired for covering up all the bad ****
>>>>> he did for 18 years.
>>>>
>>>>Can you provide a cite for that information?
>>>
>>> Do you understand the word "perhaps"?
>>
>>Sure, but it's still an accusation based on nothing.
>
>
> It's a question. Why are you being so defensive. I've also said that
> maybe he did really think help had already been dispatched.
>
> Was that an accusation too?

Holy crap... Yes I am being a little defensive because you're claiming this
cop did "bad ****" for 18 years. I'm not seeing where you're getting that
information.

>
>>
>>>
>>>> None of us have seen anything
>>>>from his past.
>>>
>>> Do you believe he just snapped one day?
>>
>>None of us know why he did what he did. What we do know is that it
>>happened, and we do know that he has a spotless 18 year record.
>
> Do you assume that a "spotless" record means he has been a model cop
> all these years?

You are the one assuming about his record. All I'm saying is that he had no
previous disciplinary action.

>
> I'd bet Barney Fife had a "spotless" record too. Would you really
> want him on your local PD without Andy along to save the day?

I've known a couple of those. They didn't last very long.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:37:27 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>> Coming from someone who intentionally misrepresents the facts in order
>>> to defend the indefensible is a liar.
>>>
>>> If you don't like it, tell the truth.
>>
>>Of course. All I've done is re-stated the information we already have.
>
> Nope - that's what I have done, but I don't expect you to mend your
> ways simply because I've called you on it.

So now we've both done it, to the benefit of our own view of the situation
and we've gotten nowhere.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.