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How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 20th 17, 05:10 AM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 931
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:04:07 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:41:17 -0400, > wrote:
>
>> I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
>> easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.

>
>This is good to know that the RWD (2wd) is easier than the rest, which has
>been my experience for most things, if not only because there is fewer
>stuff but the same amount of room, so more room in essence.
>
>> You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
>> preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
>> is a PAIN.

>
>I have 6-ton jack stands which give me a decent amount of room, but no
>hoist. I don't have a transmission jack so I would expect to need one.
>I have a bunch of bottle jacks and of course a few normal floor jacks. I
>should have most if not all the wrenches needed but you never know when
>there is a hard-to-see bolt - but I have extensions and u-joints galore.
>
>> You will also need a pilot alignment tool - and if you
>> haven't done much of this kind of work a package of BandAids wouldn't
>> hurt,

>
>Good to know on the alignment bar.
>
>>
>> As for quality of parts??? You only get what you pay for and the OEM
>> clutch on a Toyota is about as good as it gets, for general purpose
>> use. If you go for the cheapest job, you could end up with junk

>
>I would get decent parts, just as I put in Red Line MT-90 yesterday. I
>could have gone cheaper but it's supposed to be the best so that's what I
>put in there. It made a difference on the ability of cold shifting into
>gear but the clutch pedal feel is still horrid.


I once changed a cast iron Powerglide working on my back under the
car. Darn near killed me.
If you don't have a hoist, at least put the truck up on ramps - I'd
put it up on both ends - front on ramps and rear on stands. Get a
transmission saddle for the floor jack and chain the trans on firmly.
Ads
  #12  
Old September 20th 17, 12:42 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
micky
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Posts: 383
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

In rec.autos.tech, on Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:57:20 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:44:57 -0500, Dean Hoffman >
>wrote:
>
>>> This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.

>>
>> Cut some.
>> Look on Youtube. There are usually some videos showing stuff like
>> clutch
>> replacement.

>
>Youtube is pretty Spartan when it comes to things that most people don't
>do. You'll NEVER find a DIY for your own vehicle, for example. Even if it's
>as common as a Toyota 4Runner.
>
>Search term: "diy clutch replacement w59 transmission" at Youtube:


I wouldn't include diy. All the videos are for diy. Even if they are
intended for auto mechanics, how different would they be from what's
intened for you?

I wouldn't include W59. Or at least if I didn't find what I wanted I'd
take it out and put in 4runner. I don't know if a 4runner has more
possible manual transmissions, but a good part of the instructions will
be the same even if it does. I don't known if other Toyota cars use the
same transmission, but they might, so I'd also try it with Toyota
instead of 4runner. I might well specify the year -- youtube is good
about also returning hits with nearby years, and iirc will also return a
video with the title 2008 - 2012 even if you only specify 2010.

I don't think I'd even put in replacement. If it's a video about
clutches, it's going to be either replacement or inspection or ...?

If you get too many hits, then you can put in more terms (but that
doesn't seem to be your problem).

Just last night I was searching youtube and I learned a lot from videos
that didn't really meet my search terms. For one thing, one that
doesn't fit will be followed by something related, maybe something that
fits better. In theory you would have found it in the search list, but
my experience is that it often works better by letting the sequence find
it for you, (until of course the sequence goes way off topic). That
doesn't mean it won't get totally misled by terms like diy.

>https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tr ansmission
>
>The closest is the pickup truck DIY.
>Clutch replacement Toyota Tacoma Manual transmisson removal 1997
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-sscHblanc
>
>There are ZERO 3rd-generation Toyota 4Runner clutch replacement DIYs on
>Youtube.


  #13  
Old September 20th 17, 12:53 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
micky
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Posts: 383
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

In rec.autos.tech, on Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:42:28 -0400, micky
> wrote:

>
>I wouldn't include W59. Or at least if I didn't find what I wanted I'd
>take it out and put in 4runner. I don't know if a 4runner has more
>possible manual transmissions, but a good part of the instructions will
>be the same even if it does. I don't known if other Toyota cars use the
>same transmission, but they might, so I'd also try it with Toyota
>instead of 4runner. I might well specify the year -- youtube is good
>about also returning hits with nearby years, and iirc will also return a
>video with the title 2008 - 2012 even if you only specify 2010.


This might be more true because the poster included tags for each year.
And most of them probably do, so whether youtube makes it easy to find
or the posters do, it's still good for you.

I don't know how many tags a poster is allowed to list.
  #14  
Old September 20th 17, 01:04 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Xeno
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 20/09/2017 2:10 PM, wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:04:07 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
> > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:41:17 -0400, > wrote:
>>
>>> I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
>>> easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.

>>
>> This is good to know that the RWD (2wd) is easier than the rest, which has
>> been my experience for most things, if not only because there is fewer
>> stuff but the same amount of room, so more room in essence.
>>
>>> You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
>>> preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
>>> is a PAIN.

>>
>> I have 6-ton jack stands which give me a decent amount of room, but no
>> hoist. I don't have a transmission jack so I would expect to need one.
>> I have a bunch of bottle jacks and of course a few normal floor jacks. I
>> should have most if not all the wrenches needed but you never know when
>> there is a hard-to-see bolt - but I have extensions and u-joints galore.
>>
>>> You will also need a pilot alignment tool - and if you
>>> haven't done much of this kind of work a package of BandAids wouldn't
>>> hurt,

>>
>> Good to know on the alignment bar.
>>
>>>
>>> As for quality of parts??? You only get what you pay for and the OEM
>>> clutch on a Toyota is about as good as it gets, for general purpose
>>> use. If you go for the cheapest job, you could end up with junk

>>
>> I would get decent parts, just as I put in Red Line MT-90 yesterday. I
>> could have gone cheaper but it's supposed to be the best so that's what I
>> put in there. It made a difference on the ability of cold shifting into
>> gear but the clutch pedal feel is still horrid.

>
> I once changed a cast iron Powerglide working on my back under the
> car. Darn near killed me.


Did the same with a bus gearbox. The first one I did had an alloy case
gearbox, very light, and it was a breeze to handle. The next one in the
same type of bus had the same gearbox but with a cast iron case. Now
that brute was damn heavy to handle under a bus. At 65, I now leave
those to the younger chaps whose backs are stronger than their brains.
My most recent clutch effort was one of these a couple of months back;
http://tractor-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/2682.jpg
Not a difficult job but the tractor needs to be separated. ;-)

> If you don't have a hoist, at least put the truck up on ramps - I'd
> put it up on both ends - front on ramps and rear on stands. Get a
> transmission saddle for the floor jack and chain the trans on firmly.
>

I'm thinking if he doesn't know *anything* about the job, including what
he needs in the way of equipment, it will be *cheaper* for him to pay
someone who does have a clue and, of course, all the requisite equipment.

--

Xeno
  #16  
Old September 20th 17, 03:03 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
rbowman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 159
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 09/19/2017 08:59 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
> Any idea of how long the clutch lasts?


Depends on the driver.

> Is there a way to remove a view plate to VIEW the clutch plate visually?


Not particularly. Sometimes there is a shield on the bottom of the
bellhousing that you can remove. You can't really see much but if a lot
of dust and pieces of lining are present it isn't good news.

What are the symptoms? Is it slipping when you floor the engine at 50
mph or so? Or just hard to engage and shift. My F150 had a appetite for
throwout bearings that gave the latter symptoms. They were good for
about 75k miles. By the time you're to the throwout you're almost to the
clutch do the last time around I replaced it and the pressure plate. I
think it was about $50 for both. Neither were in bad shape but while
you're there it's not much more work.


  #17  
Old September 20th 17, 03:19 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 931
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:04:05 +1000, Xeno >
wrote:


>>

>I'm thinking if he doesn't know *anything* about the job, including what
>he needs in the way of equipment, it will be *cheaper* for him to pay
>someone who does have a clue and, of course, all the requisite equipment.

I would agree 100%. But some people NEED to do it themselves. More
time than money, or just plain more "stubborn-ness"

When the clutch on my Ranger needed replacement I paid my brother's
shop to do the job even though I'd done hundreds of clutch
replacements in my younger years. At 60 I wasn't going to roll around
under the truck on a creaper to replace it.
  #19  
Old September 20th 17, 08:51 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:05:29 -0600, rbowman > wrote:

>> The Tundra forum, for some reason, contains adults though.

>
> I'm on the Yaris forum and get a little slop over from the Tundras. The
> Yaris crew is pretty good although they lean toward coil-overs and CAI
> like frustrated ricer racers. Of course the car is used for club racing
> in Japan so the goodies exist.


I am not yet on Yaris so I should try them.
Mostly I just want DIYs.
If I could find a DIY for the clutch, that would tell me almost everything.

I did watch a few youtube DIYs and it looks like the general procedure is
something like the following - but the real problem with watching a DIY for
the wrong vehicle is that sometimes little things matter a lot.

For example, if you have to support the engine but you don't think that you
do, or if you have to have a certain sized tool but you don't have it, then
you're stuck at the worst time and place.

Anyway, the "general" procedure seems to be this:
.. While it's on the ground, remove the cabin gear shift mechanism
.. If possible, unbolt the "conning tower" for the shift mechanism
.. Then jackstand the car as high as you can get it (I have 6 ton stands).
.. Remove the drive shaft
.. Remove the slave cylinder
.. Remove the speedometer cable
.. Remove any speed sensors
.. Remove anything else in the way
.. Then support the transmission with a transmission jack
.. Then unbolt the front bell housing

I think that's it.
Did I miss a major step?

One question I have is "will the fluid leak out"?
I think not - but I know that the gearshift lever is open to the fluid.
So if you tip it over, the fluid will certainly come out.

The second question is whether a transmission lift is really needed when
you're in a jackstand situation (so you don't need ten feet of lift).

Can't a floor jack hold the transmission?
I watched one video where a guy wrestled the transmission out by hand.

Must I have a transmission jack?
If I need it I'll get it - but it will only be used once so I'd rather not.
  #20  
Old September 20th 17, 09:03 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech
Chaya Eve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:03:20 -0600, rbowman > wrote:

> Not particularly. Sometimes there is a shield on the bottom of the
> bellhousing that you can remove. You can't really see much but if a lot
> of dust and pieces of lining are present it isn't good news.


There *is* a semicircular shield plate on the bell housing.
I don't know what is behind it though.

> What are the symptoms?

Two different things, one of which was fixed yesterday:
1. The clutch pedal feels like crap (more about that below)
2. It wouldn't shift into gear when cold.

The cold-shift issue somehow, magically, went away when I replaced the
original fluid yesterday with Red Line MT-90 "miracle fluid". I didn't
believe in the miracle fluid, but the driver (who isn't me) reported that
it works just fine now for shifting into gear when cold. Huh? How can that
be? What on earth is so magical about that fluid that it makes shifting
into gear when cold possible when the only thing that changed was the
fluid?

I don't understand it but I'm not complaining.

> Is it slipping when you floor the engine at 50 mph or so?


There is no indication of slipping of the clutch.
I can stall the engine easily when I put it in the wrong gear.
I can slip the clutch to get it to go in the wrong gear.
I can start on a hill in the right gear.

So there is no indication that the clutch itself is slipping.
But ...

The pedal feels like crap.

> Or just hard to engage and shift.


It was impossible to engage just two days ago. For months, the wife has
been complaining (it's actually her car) that it wouldn't go into gear. So
she shifted into reverse to get out of the garage. Then she turned the
engine off and back on. Then she shifted into first to make her K turn.
Then she turned the engine off and back on. Then she repeated this for as
long as it took her (something like five more steps than it takes me) to
complete her K turn and be on her way.

Yesterday and today, she was able to shift into the first and reverse gears
without turning off the engine! Can a simple oil change do that?

I don't understand it. I really don't.

BTW, I don't know if turning the engine off was necessary. I suspect not. I
suspect she could have gotten it into neutral and just activated the clutch
pedal a few times. The problem was it wouldn't get OUT of gear to go into
neutral. So she shut the engine down. When I tried it, I just held the
brake and pressed the clutch pedal a few times so I think the engine didn't
need to be turned off as I see nothing that turning off the engine should
do to the transmission. Do you?


> My F150 had a appetite for
> throwout bearings that gave the latter symptoms. They were good for
> about 75k miles. By the time you're to the throwout you're almost to the
> clutch do the last time around I replaced it and the pressure plate. I
> think it was about $50 for both. Neither were in bad shape but while
> you're there it's not much more work.


This is my problem.
I know *nothing* about "forks" and "throwout bearings" and "pilot bearings"
etc.

Sure I watched that great video on how transmissions work but that doesn't
give me any *practical* knowledge about how to diagnose why the clutch
pedal feels like crap.

It's so hard to explain that even when I try, it's not the same as feeling
it.

When I step on the pedal, and then release it while in gear, it just
doesn't feel right.

The pedal goes down ok, but then when I lift it up, the first couple of
inches are like floating in air, while the next inch it seems to fully
engage, where the next four or five inches of release travel is wasted as
the clutch is already engaged.

Assume the whole pedal travel is, oh I don't know, let's say 12 inches.
The engagement travel is something like an inch it seems.
The rest of the 11 inches aren't doing anything.

Does that make any sense?
 




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