Expensive noises?

'89 Jeep XJ (4.0, AW-4, NP-242 T-case, 3.55 axles, 350,000 miles)

Today I helped my son move an 83 Volvo with four flat tires that was sitting
off pavement so he could put up a "portable garage" around it he bought from
Harbor Freight.

To move the car, I used 4-low because I knew I'd need to drag it a bit
sideways.

When I made a sharp right turn on the dirt road to go around to get in front
of the Volvo, I heard, as did my son thirty feet away, a loud clunk from
the NP-242. I straightened the front wheels, rolled slow and tried to shift
out of 4-low, but the transfer case seemed to still be engaged.

I pulled the lever back into 4-low and then continued to make the forward
pull to re-spot the car. Afterwards it shifted back into 2-Hi normally.

This past winter, in Full Time, it made a whirring noise loud enough to be
heard over the somewhat loud exhaust, but the lubricant level is fine. In 2
wheel there's no noise. In 4-Hi there's no noises and in 4-low there's never
been noises before today.

I'm suspecting the chain is worn out and needs replaced or I swap the 242
from an 92 XJ I have sitting in the yard.

Thanks!

Budd



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Budd Cochran wrote:

> '89 Jeep XJ (4.0, AW-4, NP-242 T-case, 3.55 axles, 350,000 miles)
>
> Today I helped my son move an 83 Volvo with four flat tires that was
> sitting off pavement so he could put up a "portable garage" around it he
> bought from Harbor Freight.
>
> To move the car, I used 4-low because I knew I'd need to drag it a bit
> sideways.
>
> When I made a sharp right turn on the dirt road to go around to get in
> front
> of the Volvo, I heard, as did my son thirty feet away, a loud clunk from
> the NP-242. I straightened the front wheels, rolled slow and tried to
> shift out of 4-low, but the transfer case seemed to still be engaged.

Couple of observations about that "clunk" might be of some help, Budd. My
MJ also has the 242 but behind an AX15 manual gearbox so we have similar
systems from the tc on. First, that damned 4wd light lies like a sailor!
The light is controlled by a vacuum plate position on the front axle but the
actual engagement of 4wd is not complete until the slide locks the stub axle
in the front end - and that does NOT accurately the lock pinion on the axle.
Early on I scared the crap out of myself by yanking the tc into 4 lo then
goosing the engine real quick: WHAM! - jarred my teeth so to speak. After
checking things out I hadn't done any apparent damage but I found that to
avoid that abrupt latch it's a real good practice to pull into 4wd and
continue reasonably straight ahead for a few feet. The other thing that has
caught me is the reverse problem: shift back to 2wd and the stupid light
stays ON, even on gravel or sand. A number of tests has shown that unless I
really have wound things up real tight the front axle actually does unlock
without turning the light off. Usually, just to get rid of the light, I can
get it off by shifting to 4wd (hi or lo) then down shifting (to get a higher
rpm and vacuum), then swinging the steering wheel back and forth a couple of
time while I shift back to 2wd.

> I pulled the lever back into 4-low and then continued to make the forward
> pull to re-spot the car. Afterwards it shifted back into 2-Hi normally.
>
> This past winter, in Full Time, it made a whirring noise loud enough to be
> heard over the somewhat loud exhaust, but the lubricant level is fine. In
> 2 wheel there's no noise. In 4-Hi there's no noises and in 4-low there's
> never been noises before today.
>
> I'm suspecting the chain is worn out and needs replaced or I swap the 242
> from an 92 XJ I have sitting in the yard.

If the clunk was a one-time event, I wouldn't worry about it too much. As
for the noise in 4 hi, that's far more likely to be the cv joint in the
front drive shaft than a chain. The chain typically makes more of a
grinding noise (when REALLY worn) as it eats the case or, for lesser wear,
you'll hear a slap as you play the gas or (for a manual) engage/release the
clutch.

The clunk you heard/felt was likely the sleeve finally matching the spline
teeth on the front axle. Unpleasant and it will eventually cause damage if
you get a lot of it but the simple steps I used above to shift going
straight and giving it time to engage before climbing on the gas and/or
making sharp turns should minimize that.

>
> Thanks!
>
> Budd
>
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
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--
Will Honea

Budd Cochran wrote:

> I plan to pull the drivetrain from the 92 this week and I may plan on a
> swap in the next few days after that. Then rebuild the 89's unit and keep
> it for the 92's AW-4 trans.
>

Watch out for the xfr case input shaft - There were various changes in the
spline diameter and count in the 87-94 years depending on the tranny used.
That one bit me and I had to tear down the 242 twice to get it right. There
was also a change in the gear tooth cut which also bit me. The wrong one
howled like a banshee!

--
Will Honea

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
> Budd Cochran wrote:
>
>> '89 Jeep XJ (4.0, AW-4, NP-242 T-case, 3.55 axles, 350,000 miles)
>>
>> Today I helped my son move an 83 Volvo with four flat tires that was
>> sitting off pavement so he could put up a "portable garage" around it he
>> bought from Harbor Freight.
>>
>> To move the car, I used 4-low because I knew I'd need to drag it a bit
>> sideways.
>>
>> When I made a sharp right turn on the dirt road to go around to get in
>> front
>> of the Volvo, I heard, as did my son thirty feet away, a loud clunk from
>> the NP-242. I straightened the front wheels, rolled slow and tried to
>> shift out of 4-low, but the transfer case seemed to still be engaged.
>
> Couple of observations about that "clunk" might be of some help, Budd. My
> MJ also has the 242 but behind an AX15 manual gearbox so we have similar
> systems from the tc on. First, that damned 4wd light lies like a sailor!
> The light is controlled by a vacuum plate position on the front axle but
> the
> actual engagement of 4wd is not complete until the slide locks the stub
> axle
> in the front end - and that does NOT accurately the lock pinion on the
> axle.
> Early on I scared the crap out of myself by yanking the tc into 4 lo then
> goosing the engine real quick: WHAM! - jarred my teeth so to speak. After
> checking things out I hadn't done any apparent damage but I found that to
> avoid that abrupt latch it's a real good practice to pull into 4wd and
> continue reasonably straight ahead for a few feet. The other thing that
> has
> caught me is the reverse problem: shift back to 2wd and the stupid light
> stays ON, even on gravel or sand. A number of tests has shown that unless
> I
> really have wound things up real tight the front axle actually does unlock
> without turning the light off. Usually, just to get rid of the light, I
> can
> get it off by shifting to 4wd (hi or lo) then down shifting (to get a
> higher
> rpm and vacuum), then swinging the steering wheel back and forth a couple
> of
> time while I shift back to 2wd.
>
>> I pulled the lever back into 4-low and then continued to make the forward
>> pull to re-spot the car. Afterwards it shifted back into 2-Hi normally.
>>
>> This past winter, in Full Time, it made a whirring noise loud enough to
>> be
>> heard over the somewhat loud exhaust, but the lubricant level is fine. In
>> 2 wheel there's no noise. In 4-Hi there's no noises and in 4-low there's
>> never been noises before today.
>>
>> I'm suspecting the chain is worn out and needs replaced or I swap the 242
>> from an 92 XJ I have sitting in the yard.
>
> If the clunk was a one-time event, I wouldn't worry about it too much. As
> for the noise in 4 hi, that's far more likely to be the cv joint in the
> front drive shaft than a chain. The chain typically makes more of a
> grinding noise (when REALLY worn) as it eats the case or, for lesser wear,
> you'll hear a slap as you play the gas or (for a manual) engage/release
> the
> clutch.
>
> The clunk you heard/felt was likely the sleeve finally matching the spline
> teeth on the front axle. Unpleasant and it will eventually cause damage
> if
> you get a lot of it but the simple steps I used above to shift going
> straight and giving it time to engage before climbing on the gas and/or
> making sharp turns should minimize that.
>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Budd
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active. http://www.avast.com
> --
> Will Honea
>

The clunk and the whirring sounds are coming from between the front seats,
right over the T-case and not from the front of the XJ.

This was the first time it clunked but I was on a loose graveled street, not
pavement. The whirring is anytime I'm in Full-Time 4X4 and the road is too
smooth for tire noise to drown it out.

The front axle on the white 89 doesn't have the axle disconnect like my
son's blue 88 had but the T-vcase has a complete disconnect of the front
axle in the T-case instead.

I've heard the sound you mentioned in the blue 88 (part-time 4X4 only)
before I gave it to my son and the vacuum switch on the back of the T-case
failed so the front axle wouldn't disconnect dependably. I then took an
aircraft grade Tele-Flex cable I had laying around and made a manual
disconnect for it.

In Full-Time 4X4, the inter-axle differential, which allows driving on dry
pavement in 4X4, keeps the chain from slapping as it keeps the chain under
tension while driving.

Yeah, the dash light is only slightly more believable that the current
federal administration. I've had it read wrong in all T-case shift
positions.

I plan to pull the drivetrain from the 92 this week and I may plan on a swap
in the next few days after that. Then rebuild the 89's unit and keep it for
the 92's AW-4 trans.

Budd



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"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
> Budd Cochran wrote:
>
>> I plan to pull the drivetrain from the 92 this week and I may plan on a
>> swap in the next few days after that. Then rebuild the 89's unit and keep
>> it for the 92's AW-4 trans.
>>
>
> Watch out for the xfr case input shaft - There were various changes in the
> spline diameter and count in the 87-94 years depending on the tranny used.
> That one bit me and I had to tear down the 242 twice to get it right.
> There
> was also a change in the gear tooth cut which also bit me. The wrong one
> howled like a banshee!
>
> --
> Will Honea
>
According to these guys it'll swap right across:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np242.htm

The 92 and my 89 both have the same AW-4 automatic so it shouldn't be a
problem to swap

My son's 88 has the BA10/5 manual trans and it needs a rebuild so he's
looking at converting to a AX-15 trans from a JY source ... if he can find
one.

Budd



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Budd Cochran wrote:

> According to these guys it'll swap right across:
> http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np242.htm
>
> The 92 and my 89 both have the same AW-4 automatic so it shouldn't be a
> problem to swap
>
> My son's 88 has the BA10/5 manual trans and it needs a rebuild so he's
> looking at converting to a AX-15 trans from a JY source ... if he can find
> one.
>

That's the swap I made - about 12 years ago. There is a junk yard outside
of Oklahoma City that has nearly 20 acres of Jeeps. When I did mine, one of
the owners rebuilt Jeep trannies. Whole deal, including the external
hydraulic clutch parts and the needed input shaft for the transfer case plus
shipping (by bus) came to about $1200. I'll see if I can find the phone
number for this bunch. Last I heard, he was having trouble getting the
adapter rings for the tranny -> xfr case mating to the AX15 but it would be
worth a call. For me, that blasted internal clutch cylinder was worth the
effort but the BA10/5 was shot anyway so it was a no brainer.

--
Will Honea

On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:49:05 -0600, Will Honea >
wrote:
> Budd Cochran wrote:


> > According to these guys it'll swap right across:
> > http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np242.htm
> >
> > The 92 and my 89 both have the same AW-4 automatic so it
shouldn't be a
> > problem to swap
> >
> > My son's 88 has the BA10/5 manual trans and it needs a rebuild so
he's
> > looking at converting to a AX-15 trans from a JY source ... if he
can find
> > one.
> >


> That's the swap I made - about 12 years ago. There is a junk yard
outside
> of Oklahoma City that has nearly 20 acres of Jeeps. When I did
mine, one of
> the owners rebuilt Jeep trannies. Whole deal, including the
external
> hydraulic clutch parts and the needed input shaft for the transfer
case plus
> shipping (by bus) came to about $1200. I'll see if I can find the
phone
> number for this bunch. Last I heard, he was having trouble getting
the
> adapter rings for the tranny -> xfr case mating to the AX15 but it
would be
> worth a call. For me, that blasted internal clutch cylinder was
worth the
> effort but the BA10/5 was shot anyway so it was a no brainer.


That's basically my back doorstep.
These guys? aandptruck.com

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
> Budd Cochran wrote:
>
>> According to these guys it'll swap right across:
>> http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np242.htm
>>
>> The 92 and my 89 both have the same AW-4 automatic so it shouldn't be a
>> problem to swap
>>
>> My son's 88 has the BA10/5 manual trans and it needs a rebuild so he's
>> looking at converting to a AX-15 trans from a JY source ... if he can
>> find
>> one.
>>
>
> That's the swap I made - about 12 years ago. There is a junk yard outside
> of Oklahoma City that has nearly 20 acres of Jeeps. When I did mine, one
> of
> the owners rebuilt Jeep trannies. Whole deal, including the external
> hydraulic clutch parts and the needed input shaft for the transfer case
> plus
> shipping (by bus) came to about $1200. I'll see if I can find the phone
> number for this bunch. Last I heard, he was having trouble getting the
> adapter rings for the tranny -> xfr case mating to the AX15 but it would
> be
> worth a call. For me, that blasted internal clutch cylinder was worth the
> effort but the BA10/5 was shot anyway so it was a no brainer.
>
> --
> Will Honea
>

We had a good JunkYard here in Canon City (about 3 acres of Jeeps), but they
decided to crush everything and close shop.

A new yard is opening between Canon and Penrose on US-50 and 've spoke with
the owner and suggested he load up on Jeep stuff since there are more
Wranglers, CJ's, XJ's, MJ's, and even some full sized Jeep Cherokees and
pickups than you can shake a fist at here anymore.

Budd



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"DougW" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:49:05 -0600, Will Honea > wrote:
>> Budd Cochran wrote:
>
>
>> > According to these guys it'll swap right across:
>> > http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np242.htm
>> >
>> > The 92 and my 89 both have the same AW-4 automatic so it
> shouldn't be a
>> > problem to swap
>> >
>> > My son's 88 has the BA10/5 manual trans and it needs a rebuild so
> he's
>> > looking at converting to a AX-15 trans from a JY source ... if he
> can find
>> > one.
>> >
>
>
>> That's the swap I made - about 12 years ago. There is a junk yard
> outside
>> of Oklahoma City that has nearly 20 acres of Jeeps. When I did
> mine, one of
>> the owners rebuilt Jeep trannies. Whole deal, including the
> external
>> hydraulic clutch parts and the needed input shaft for the transfer
> case plus
>> shipping (by bus) came to about $1200. I'll see if I can find the
> phone
>> number for this bunch. Last I heard, he was having trouble getting
> the
>> adapter rings for the tranny -> xfr case mating to the AX15 but it
> would be
>> worth a call. For me, that blasted internal clutch cylinder was
> worth the
>> effort but the BA10/5 was shot anyway so it was a no brainer.
>
>
> That's basically my back doorstep.
> These guys? aandptruck.com

I'm checking them out right now.

Thanks!

Budd



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DougW wrote:

> That's basically my back doorstep.
> These guys? aandptruck.com
>

I can't find my references right now - but they were shipping parts all over
the place back when I dealt with them. Even had an 800 number where you
could usually find a knowledgeable and friendly real person who spoke decent
English to help you if you ran into problems. I haven't jeard much about
them in recent years but then I haven't yanked that many wrenches either...

My mechanical impulses appear to be trending opposite my age these days.

--
Will Honea