and now: Death Wobble 1989 XJ Style

"DougW" > wrote in message
...
: On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 23:02:20 -0700, Will Honea >
: wrote:
: > Budd Cochran wrote:
:
:
: > >
: > > I got the upper control arm bushings installed.
: > >
: > > My homemade tool worked until I needed to press the new bushings
: in so I
: > > fumbled around with my balljoint press till the job was done.
: > >
: > > If the oil pan sump had the front panel made 1" farther back or
: the
: > > designers had moved the axle 1" farther forward I would have had
: a much
: > > easier time.
: > >
: > > Or better: made all the control arms to hold the bushings instead
: of
: > > having brackets on the top of the axle to hold them.
: > >
: > > But I still have the Death Wobble although the primary cause of
: the axle
: > > rocking was because some lazy "technician" didn't torque the axle
: end
: > > bolts correctly.
: > >
: > > I had to drill them out and use 7/16" grade5 bolts and nylock
: nuts torqued
: > > to 50 ft/lb (55 with the nylock nuts).
: > >
: > > Improvements: ride quality much better, better caster induced
: return to
: > > center, less tire outside wheel scrub on sharp turns, better brake
: > > response.
: > >
: > > I pick up the lower bushings and a track bar bushing in the AM
: and my son
: > > is going to see if we can use a bay at his job to do the work
:
:
: > Bud, my daughter brought her Nisson PU over this weekend whining
: about a
: > shimmy in her front end. After screwing around with it for a
: couple of
: > hours I put a strong light one the tread and spun the wheel slowly.
: Bingo!
: > She had a deformation in the tread - just a small flat spot, but it
: showed
: > under the strong light. I had her put the spare on (what? me do it
: for
: > her??) and test it. Sure enough, the shimmy was gone. For me,
: just about
: > every death wobble was fixed by having a shop I trusted re-balance
: the
: > tires. Surprisingly, the Sam's Club shop here does the best
: balance around.
: > Standard practice there is 4 distributed weights where most places
: try to
: > get by slapping on just 2. Makes a real difference. Also, the
: manager down
: > there checks the tire temp and asks you to drive a couple of miles
: if it is
: > cold.
:
:
: > Just some things for you to chew on...
:
:
: I'll second the balance and add checking the shocks.
: Last time I changed mine the darn shock fell apart when I took it out!

In reply to both of you:

My shocks have less than 10,000 miles on them, my rims are OEM Jeep
aluminum, the tires are from Peerless tire and run true and are well
balanced.

OTOH, I might have a bit of wear in the wheel bearings and balljoints but I
can't detect any slop.

I know the disk brakes pulse a bit due to the fact the XJ sat for three
years outside before the previous owner decided to get rid of it and there
is brake pad shaped rust patterns on the rotors that I need to get removed.

It's that pulsing that brought the wobble to my attention. Around town the
pulsing is just a mild annoyance and that's where I drive 90+% of the time.

I'm also looking at doing a tierod end replacement in the spring just to be
safe.


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

Budd Cochran wrote:

> My shocks have less than 10,000 miles on them, my rims are OEM Jeep
> aluminum, the tires are from Peerless tire and run true and are well
> balanced.
>
> OTOH, I might have a bit of wear in the wheel bearings and balljoints but
> I can't detect any slop.
>
> I know the disk brakes pulse a bit due to the fact the XJ sat for three
> years outside before the previous owner decided to get rid of it and there
> is brake pad shaped rust patterns on the rotors that I need to get
> removed.
>
> It's that pulsing that brought the wobble to my attention. Around town the
> pulsing is just a mild annoyance and that's where I drive 90+% of the
> time.
>
> I'm also looking at doing a tierod end replacement in the spring just to
> be safe.
>

That makes sense - but it also implies that a part of the problem is not
speed related. The real death wobble is almost always related to speed and
once it starts it rapidly increases in severity. In most case, engaging the
brakes dampens or even stops it.

I appreciate that brake pulse thing - I had a scored rotor that nearly drove
me nuts when I first got the MJ. Only cure was to replace the rotors - the
old ones were worn past the legal turning thickness. Put the new rotors on
and all the pulse crap went away. I think I got a bargain at that. The
local AutoZone had new rotors for about $20 each and I was expecting three
times that much.

--
Will Honea

On 12/4/2013 9:47 PM, Budd Cochran wrote:
>
> It's that pulsing that brought the wobble to my attention. Around town the
> pulsing is just a mild annoyance and that's where I drive 90+% of the time.
>
> I'm also looking at doing a tierod end replacement in the spring just to be
> safe.
>

My JK had the wobble at 20K and the dealer replaced the steering
stabilizer. It now has 70K on it with no further problem though I will
be replacing it shortly just because..
>

--

AJ - Having the time of my life!

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 06:37:50 -0700, D-R > wrote:
> On 12/4/2013 9:47 PM, Budd Cochran wrote:
> >
> > It's that pulsing that brought the wobble to my attention. Around
town the
> > pulsing is just a mild annoyance and that's where I drive 90+% of
the time.
> >
> > I'm also looking at doing a tierod end replacement in the spring
just to be
> > safe.
> >


> My JK had the wobble at 20K and the dealer replaced the
steering
> stabilizer. It now has 70K on it with no further problem though I
will
> be replacing it shortly just because..
> >

Yep dw is from all sorts of places.
My worst bushings were the lowers.

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
: Budd Cochran wrote:
:
: > My shocks have less than 10,000 miles on them, my rims are OEM Jeep
: > aluminum, the tires are from Peerless tire and run true and are well
: > balanced.
: >
: > OTOH, I might have a bit of wear in the wheel bearings and balljoints
but
: > I can't detect any slop.
: >
: > I know the disk brakes pulse a bit due to the fact the XJ sat for three
: > years outside before the previous owner decided to get rid of it and
there
: > is brake pad shaped rust patterns on the rotors that I need to get
: > removed.
: >
: > It's that pulsing that brought the wobble to my attention. Around town
the
: > pulsing is just a mild annoyance and that's where I drive 90+% of the
: > time.
: >
: > I'm also looking at doing a tierod end replacement in the spring just to
: > be safe.
: >
:
: That makes sense - but it also implies that a part of the problem is not
: speed related. The real death wobble is almost always related to speed
and
: once it starts it rapidly increases in severity. In most case, engaging
the
: brakes dampens or even stops it.
:
: I appreciate that brake pulse thing - I had a scored rotor that nearly
drove
: me nuts when I first got the MJ. Only cure was to replace the rotors -
the
: old ones were worn past the legal turning thickness. Put the new rotors
on
: and all the pulse crap went away. I think I got a bargain at that. The
: local AutoZone had new rotors for about $20 each and I was expecting three
: times that much.
:
: --
: Will Honea

I do have a very slight, and I do mean very slight, wobble without braking
input when the linkages and suspension parts are neutrally loaded (iow, no
steering forces, just tracking straight.

My older brother's 91 did the same just before fully DW set in about 2000
miles later.

He didn't notice it but I did in the passenger's seat.

I figure I've got many issues with this Jeep, I just need to win the
Powerball lottery so I can afford to fix it!


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

Budd Cochran wrote:

> I figure I've got many issues with this Jeep, I just need to win the
> Powerball lottery so I can afford to fix it!
>

At least it's new enough that you can remove the radiator cap and drive a
new Jeep under it - I'm cursed with the old closed cooling system. What a
PITA that can be!

--
Will Honea

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
: Budd Cochran wrote:
:
: > I figure I've got many issues with this Jeep, I just need to win the
: > Powerball lottery so I can afford to fix it!
: >
:
: At least it's new enough that you can remove the radiator cap and drive a
: new Jeep under it - I'm cursed with the old closed cooling system. What a
: PITA that can be!
:
: --
: Will Honea

Now that's an easy fix.

Moroso makes radiator fillers that fit into the top hose and the heater
valve can be modified (both the feed to the heater core and return need
modifying) and the old pressure tank made into a coolant recovery that's not
pressurized.

In fact, I cut the pressure valve out of a stock cap then made sure it
vented.

Another way is to get a radiator from a later model that has the filler cap
and grab the coolant recovery tank too.

I did the first type of modification to my son's 88 XJ when I had it because
I'd heard the closed system was problematic.

In 100+F heat it ran normal temperatures with just the mechanical fan, no
electric fan and no AC core in front of the radiator (someone had already
cut the hoses so it wasn't working anyhow).

And I used a 1980 Dodge truck heater valve because the OEM vacuum operated
valve was damaged. The only problem there was I had to use a light duty
throttle cable to open it and you had to open the hood to shut the heat off.


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
: Budd Cochran wrote:
:
: > Moroso makes radiator fillers that fit into the top hose and the heater
: > valve can be modified (both the feed to the heater core and return need
: > modifying) and the old pressure tank made into a coolant recovery that's
: > not pressurized.
: >
: > In fact, I cut the pressure valve out of a stock cap then made sure it
: > vented.
: >
: > Another way is to get a radiator from a later model that has the filler
: > cap and grab the coolant recovery tank too.
: >
:
: A new radiator isn't that expensive. It's more a case of just finding the
: energy to do the work anymore.
:
: I expect I'll be fighting some wobble problems come this summer as the
tires
: on the MJ are getting on toward bald and it usually takes a couple of
passes
: to get everything smooth.
:
: I'm hoping the old beast lasts as long as I plan to - it's still more
: comfortable on a trip than anything else around here. I rebuilt the a/c
: last summer and plan on taking it to South Texas come Spring and warm
: weather.
:
: Doug's comments on the coupling joint reminded me that I had to replace
that
: one as well. It took me all one summer to get the front end just right
when
: I first got this MJ. It was obvious that the original owner rode it hard
: and put it away wet, but once I got that and the fuel system straight it's
: been rock solid for over 10 years now - just a little TLC.
:
: --
: Will Honea
:
The MJ is also the best looking compact pickup ever made before the Dakota
series from Mopar and before they outgrew the compact designation.

We have 3 or 4 running around here in Canon City and, to be honest, if I can
find the money, I'm getting one.

The radiator swap is the easiest way to do the modification then just have
the pressure bottle connections to the heater valve and hose blocked off and
toss the bottle.

It does require stripping the grill parts and the radiator yoke but I did
that on my 88 to pull the engine for the rear main seal and clutch slave
cylinder replacements and it wasn't too bad.

Let's get together by next year and I'll help you with it.


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!

Budd Cochran wrote:

> Let's get together by next year and I'll help you with it.
>

Anymore, making plans beyond a few months out is really optimistic ;-)

I don't get down your way very often anymore but if you're in this area give
me a holler. I'm in the book. As I said, the wife teaches on Ft. Carson and
Monument is a 20 minute run in the other direction so I'm usually somewhere
in between. We can swap lies over a cup of something.

--
Will Honea

"Will Honea" > wrote in message
...
: Budd Cochran wrote:
:
: > Let's get together by next year and I'll help you with it.
: >
:
: Anymore, making plans beyond a few months out is really optimistic ;-)
:
: I don't get down your way very often anymore but if you're in this area
give
: me a holler. I'm in the book. As I said, the wife teaches on Ft. Carson
and
: Monument is a 20 minute run in the other direction so I'm usually
somewhere
: in between. We can swap lies over a cup of something.
:
: --
: Will Honea
:

I lived in Monument for about a year ... way back in 1954!

My step-dad worked as civilian labor as a janitor in the Ft. Carson
hospital.

I went to First Grade at Palmer Lake back then.

It's sure grown up a lot since it had a population of just 400.

My email address works and if I can give you a call before I'm up that way,
unless you're in the phonebook, that is.


--
Budd Cochran

Need proof that we need less government?

They can't run a website that could have

been built with WYSIWYG5!