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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards OR Defying the Laws of Physics



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 30th 07, 03:37 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Scruffy McScruffovitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..

In News ,, Eeyore at
, typed this:

> Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
>
>> Eeyore at typed this:
>>> Kurt Lochner wrote:
>>>>
AKA sniveled ineptly:
>>>>>
>>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an
>>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership
>>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles,
>>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot.
>>>
>>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a
>>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car
>>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive
>>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles
>>> on a gallon of diesel.
>>>
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52
>>>
>>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg !
>>>
>>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an
>>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design
>>> is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque
>>> which most drivers like too.

>>
>> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit?

>
> I have NO idea.


That's rather important for people living in my area.

>
> How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ?


Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. In the
past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter.


> How much of the year do you
> have those temps ?


In the Winter? Quite often. Probably 15 - 30 days on average, but more
often at night.

--
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong
enough to take away everything you have."

Thomas Jefferson


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  #22  
Old December 30th 07, 03:51 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,670
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..



Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:

> Eeyore typed this:
> > Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
> >> Eeyore at typed this:
> >>> Kurt Lochner wrote:
> >>>> AKA sniveled ineptly:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an
> >>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership
> >>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles,
> >>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot.
> >>>
> >>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a
> >>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car
> >>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive
> >>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles
> >>> on a gallon of diesel.
> >>>
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52
> >>>
> >>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg !
> >>>
> >>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an
> >>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design
> >>> is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque
> >>> which most drivers like too.
> >>
> >> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit?

> >
> > I have NO idea.

>
> That's rather important for people living in my area.
>
>
> > How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ?

>
> Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. In the
> past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter.


I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block
warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too.

Graham

  #24  
Old December 30th 07, 06:06 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Scruffy McScruffovitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..

In News ,, Eeyore at
, typed this:

> Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
>
>> Eeyore typed this:
>>> Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
>>>> Eeyore at typed this:
>>>>> Kurt Lochner wrote:
>>>>>>
AKA sniveled ineptly:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an
>>>>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership
>>>>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles,
>>>>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a
>>>>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car
>>>>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive
>>>>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles
>>>>> on a gallon of diesel.
>>>>>
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52
>>>>>
>>>>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg !
>>>>>
>>>>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an
>>>>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine
>>>>> design is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have
>>>>> exceptional torque which most drivers like too.
>>>>
>>>> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit?
>>>
>>> I have NO idea.

>>
>> That's rather important for people living in my area.
>>
>>
>>> How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ?

>>
>> Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature.
>> In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter.

>
> I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block
> warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too.
>
> Graham


Why would I go to that problem and added energy expense/expenditure when I
can just buy a reliable non-Diesel car?


--
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong
enough to take away everything you have."

Thomas Jefferson


  #25  
Old December 30th 07, 06:10 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,686
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..

Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
> In News ,, Eeyore at
>
, typed this:
>
>
>>Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Eeyore typed this:
>>>
>>>>Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Eeyore at typed this:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Kurt Lochner wrote:
>>>>>>
AKA
sniveled ineptly:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an
>>>>>>>>average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership
>>>>>>>>and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles,
>>>>>>>>I started checking out the vehicles on the lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a
>>>>>>staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car
>>>>>>that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive
>>>>>>drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles
>>>>>>on a gallon of diesel.
>>>>>>
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52
>>>>>>
>>>>>>OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an
>>>>>>irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine
>>>>>>design is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have
>>>>>>exceptional torque which most drivers like too.
>>>>>
>>>>>How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit?
>>>>
>>>>I have NO idea.
>>>
>>>That's rather important for people living in my area.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ?
>>>
>>>Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature.
>>>In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter.

>>
>>I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block
>>warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too.
>>
>>Graham

>
>
> Why would I go to that problem and added energy expense/expenditure when I
> can just buy a reliable non-Diesel car?
>
>


Because Graham is one of those arrogant Brits that has all the right
answers, and anyone that disagrees with him is an idiot.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  #27  
Old December 30th 07, 07:43 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,686
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..

Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:33:41 +0000, Eeyore
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In some European countries diesel cars represent the majority of new car
>>sales. Their economy is undeniable. Their performance is daily improving.

>
>
> In the USA, diesel fuel costs more than gasoline. This wasn't always
> the case, which accounts for the initial surge of popularity for
> diesel-powered cars in the US back during the mid 1970s. Nowadays,
> diesel costs even more than premium gasoline, so where's the advantage
> of a diesel-powered car?
>
> Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a
> DIESEL-electric hybrid?


I never understood that myself, as that would appear to be the logical
blending of technologies.

As it is, a VW TDI gets better mileage than most hybrids, so if I were
to buy a new car I'd give it serious consideration. It never gets much
below freezing where I live though.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  #28  
Old December 30th 07, 09:43 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,670
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..



Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:

> Eeyore at typed this:
> > Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
> >> Eeyore typed this:
> >>> Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
> >>>> Eeyore at typed this:
> >>>>> Kurt Lochner wrote:
> >>>>>> AKA sniveled ineptly:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an
> >>>>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership
> >>>>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles,
> >>>>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a
> >>>>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car
> >>>>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive
> >>>>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles
> >>>>> on a gallon of diesel.
> >>>>>
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg !
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an
> >>>>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine
> >>>>> design is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have
> >>>>> exceptional torque which most drivers like too.
> >>>>
> >>>> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit?
> >>>
> >>> I have NO idea.
> >>
> >> That's rather important for people living in my area.
> >>
> >>
> >>> How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ?
> >>
> >> Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature.
> >> In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter.

> >
> > I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block
> > warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too.
> >
> > Graham

>
> Why would I go to that problem and added energy expense/expenditure when I
> can just buy a reliable non-Diesel car?


What kind of engine oil works right from -34C ?

Graham

  #29  
Old December 30th 07, 09:47 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,670
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..



Scott in SoCal wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
>
> >In some European countries diesel cars represent the majority of new car
> >sales. Their economy is undeniable. Their performance is daily improving.

>
> In the USA, diesel fuel costs more than gasoline. This wasn't always
> the case, which accounts for the initial surge of popularity for
> diesel-powered cars in the US back during the mid 1970s. Nowadays,
> diesel costs even more than premium gasoline, so where's the advantage
> of a diesel-powered car?


Well .. diesel costs a fraction more than gasoline here too but the added
economy more than pays for the difference.


> Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a
> DIESEL-electric hybrid?


Almost certainly because they are currently targeted mainly at the US market
where diesel is disliked. You're correct though, a hybrid diesel would make
far more sense than using a gasoline engine. I imagine you could see true 100
mpg figures.

Graham


  #30  
Old December 30th 07, 09:51 PM posted to sci.environment,rec.autos.driving,alt.politics.democrats
Eeyore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,670
Default Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..



Scott in SoCal wrote:

> Nate Nagel wrote:
> >Scott in SoCal wrote:

>
> >> Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a
> >> DIESEL-electric hybrid?

> >
> >I never understood that myself, as that would appear to be the logical
> >blending of technologies.

>
> It's probably because American car buyers still HATE diesel engines.
> Those old memories of soot and glow plugs from the 70s still linger.


Soot from diesels is caused by over-fuelling probably associated most with
older primitive mechanical fuel injection systems.

I don't know what they've done recently about the 'glow plugs' but the last
time I hired a diesel van I was told you don't have to wait at all before
cranking.

Sadly, diesel engines still do clatter somewhat compared to gasoline ones
but even this is getting better.

Graham

 




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