Flashpoint Racing Series begins tonight!

"JP" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve Blankenship" > wrote in message
> ...
> > No, it's just that as others have noted, this is far from the EA/Tiburon
> > crew's first effort at Nascar.
>
> Well, in terms of a non-console port, it is.

??? NSR is just the next-generation of NT2003/4, which were both PC
products based on the ISI game engine. Sure it's got some new bits in
there, but a lot's very familiar.

> >Just think that the main issues
> > people have with NR2003 are a function of 2-year old code where the
issues
> > that are appearing with NSR are based on current code.
>
> Well, don't know how current it is, being based on F1x, etc. But
anyway.

Kind of my point, actually. It's being sold as a new product, which
inherently means current code, but it has some legacy issues relating to the
base engine. Same with GTR for instance; SimBin have done great things with
the old F1C engine, but it's creaking at the seams. The middleware is
definitely holding GTR back. But I guess that's all they have to work with
until they can license a next gen engine. Who knows when that might be
available, since ISI's still tweaking rFactor for their own upcoming
release.

> Regarding the cars handling, more forgiving, etc. of course, doesn't
> necessarily mean less realistic. Usually the opposite in fact (more
> realistic) imo. I.e., it's been said that the cts mod for 03 more closely
> matches the way the cup cars should, and the cts mod is easier to drive.
> Anyway, I'm not a fan of the "it has to be difficult to be realistic" line
> of thought <g>
> Hell, Kaemmer himself said driving gpl was harder than the reality.

Know what you mean - driving should be hard on the limit, but not below it.
But staying on the limit should be hard, and with the NSR demo you could
just about floor it all the way around Kansas and steer into and out of
anything one-handed. I like to think I can drive OK, but dirt-tracking it
at 170 on pavement... ;-) Perhaps the final (or more likely a patched
final) will be better. Could be; just locking the rear end in the HDV file
made the cars a lot more Papy-like in how they acted when the rear end let
go. I just wonder if they WANT that much of an edge on it. You almost wish
they'd take the approach MGI did with Heat and have the hardcore mode locked
in a config file unknown to the masses, but available to those of us for
whom it matters.

That's funny about GPL though; I remember thinking GPL was too hard going
slow back in the day, but now it seems so easy. And the experience of
learning to drive a real sim from GPL translates to other modern sims, and
vice versa. Driving is driving, it's just a matter of learning to read the
cues in the 2D environment. Granted, the GPL cars had some seriously funky
virtual tires on them. I remember driving GPL once and thinking if my
mechanic gave me a real car that handled like that I'd drive right back to
the pits and punch him out! But everyone had to use them, so it was fair
and you just got on with trying to figure them out.

Kaemmer's point then was that any accurate sim would be harder to drive than
in reality because you lacked real-world feedback. Others have taken the
approach of softening the edges to make it "seem" real (which is the gist of
what Henrik Roos has said about GTR feeling more real with TC & ABS on low),
but Kaemmer said it was just a matter of the user learning the environment,
not changing the physics. I'm down with that. ;-)

"Steve Blankenship" > wrote in message
...
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Steve Blankenship" > wrote in
message
> > ...
> > > No, it's just that as others have noted, this is far from the
EA/Tiburon
> > > crew's first effort at Nascar.
> >
> > Well, in terms of a non-console port, it is.
>
> ??? NSR is just the next-generation of NT2003/4, which were both PC
> products based on the ISI game engine. Sure it's got some new bits in
> there, but a lot's very familiar.
>
> > >Just think that the main issues
> > > people have with NR2003 are a function of 2-year old code where the
> issues
> > > that are appearing with NSR are based on current code.
> >
> > Well, don't know how current it is, being based on F1x, etc. But
> anyway.
>
> Kind of my point, actually. It's being sold as a new product, which
> inherently means current code, but it has some legacy issues relating to
the
> base engine. Same with GTR for instance; SimBin have done great things
with
> the old F1C engine, but it's creaking at the seams. The middleware is
> definitely holding GTR back. But I guess that's all they have to work
with
> until they can license a next gen engine. Who knows when that might be
> available, since ISI's still tweaking rFactor for their own upcoming
> release.


Ah, ok. True enough. But then, we've seen this before ala Papy,
including with 03 <g>


>
> > Regarding the cars handling, more forgiving, etc. of course, doesn't
> > necessarily mean less realistic. Usually the opposite in fact (more
> > realistic) imo. I.e., it's been said that the cts mod for 03 more
closely
> > matches the way the cup cars should, and the cts mod is easier to drive.
> > Anyway, I'm not a fan of the "it has to be difficult to be realistic"
line
> > of thought <g>
> > Hell, Kaemmer himself said driving gpl was harder than the reality.
>
> Know what you mean - driving should be hard on the limit, but not below
it.
> But staying on the limit should be hard, and with the NSR demo you could
> just about floor it all the way around Kansas and steer into and out of
> anything one-handed. I like to think I can drive OK, but dirt-tracking it
> at 170 on pavement... ;-) Perhaps the final (or more likely a patched
> final) will be better. Could be; just locking the rear end in the HDV
file
> made the cars a lot more Papy-like in how they acted when the rear end let
> go. I just wonder if they WANT that much of an edge on it. You almost
wish
> they'd take the approach MGI did with Heat and have the hardcore mode
locked
> in a config file unknown to the masses, but available to those of us for
> whom it matters.


Yeah, I've seen several make just that comment about the demo (dirt
tracking). Don't know why, but I didn't have that experience. Good
questions though.



>
> That's funny about GPL though; I remember thinking GPL was too hard going
> slow back in the day, but now it seems so easy. And the experience of
> learning to drive a real sim from GPL translates to other modern sims, and
> vice versa. Driving is driving, it's just a matter of learning to read
the
> cues in the 2D environment. Granted, the GPL cars had some seriously
funky
> virtual tires on them. I remember driving GPL once and thinking if my
> mechanic gave me a real car that handled like that I'd drive right back to
> the pits and punch him out! But everyone had to use them, so it was fair
> and you just got on with trying to figure them out.
>
> Kaemmer's point then was that any accurate sim would be harder to drive
than
> in reality because you lacked real-world feedback. Others have taken the
> approach of softening the edges to make it "seem" real (which is the gist
of
> what Henrik Roos has said about GTR feeling more real with TC & ABS on
low),
> but Kaemmer said it was just a matter of the user learning the
environment,
> not changing the physics. I'm down with that. ;-)


Yep.

Know what you mean re gpl, same experience myself. Run it now, and one
wonders why it was ever so difficult <g>

>"Bill Bollinger" > wrote
> Remember that N3 didn't even have a dedicated server package when it was
> released.


But then again that was in 1999. Case closed.






--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:35:58 -0600, "JP" > wrote:


> Hehe, the 'ole "Boo hoo, EA is mean to their employees (a story that
>turned out to be at least partially fabricated iirc). If you're so worried
>about that kind of stuff, you might want to do some research as to why the
>Papy employees turned over so much.
>

It wasn't Papy and there wasn't a monopoly on a racing series. Enjoy
EA's piece of **** for the next many years.

"not spam" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:35:58 -0600, "JP" > wrote:
>
>
> > Hehe, the 'ole "Boo hoo, EA is mean to their employees (a story that
> >turned out to be at least partially fabricated iirc). If you're so
worried
> >about that kind of stuff, you might want to do some research as to why
the
> >Papy employees turned over so much.
> >
>
> It wasn't Papy and there wasn't a monopoly on a racing series. Enjoy
> EA's piece of **** for the next many years.


Thanks, I intend to. Enjoy crying in your beer for the same time frame.






>