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Saving my (expensive) clutch.



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 23rd 05, 04:38 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.

> > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals?
> >
> > Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. As the
> > left foot releases, you're engaging the clutch and releasing the brake,
> > all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when
> > starting and you don't roll back.

>
> NO.
>
> Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us.


That is the way. Just because you don't understand it or are unable to
do it doesn't make it wrong.

Ads
  #22  
Old December 23rd 05, 07:14 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.



Larry Bud wrote:

> > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals?
> > >
> > > Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. As the
> > > left foot releases, you're engaging the clutch and releasing the brake,
> > > all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when
> > > starting and you don't roll back.

> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us.

>
> That is the way. Just because you don't understand it or are unable to
> do it doesn't make it wrong.


It's a shocking way to use a manual tranny.

One slip of the foot and the car is totally out of control.

Use that during a driving test and it's a guaranteed fail..


Graham


  #23  
Old December 24th 05, 03:30 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.


Larry Bud wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> > Larry Bud wrote:
> > > Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> > > > In article >,
> > > > says...
> > > >
> > > > >NEVER use the clutch to hold position on hills.
> > > > >That is what the handbrake is for.
> > > >
> > > > Handbrake?? What if your car has a footbrake? I've done fine just using
> > > > the regular brake and some quick foot action.
> > >
> > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals?
> > >
> > > Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. As the
> > > left foot releases, you're engaging the clutch and releasing the brake,
> > > all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when
> > > starting and you don't roll back.

> >
> > Now that is a technique I have never tried and can't really see how it
> > would work. I always used the right foot on brake and accelerator.

>
> What's so hard to see? When you're stopped, the clutch AND brake pedal
> are fully depressed, causing you to stop. As you release BOTH at the
> same time, the clutch takes over and makes it so you don't roll
> backward.


And right thee is the problem. The clutch is fully depressed but the
brake pedal won't even be 1/2 way to the boards. Then there is the
problem of the clutch and brake being on opposide sides of the steering
colume (if there is one down there). I have never driven a vette but
nothing else I have driven would have allowed that procedure. Did
drive an ex-works ?mercedes/ferrari? (how memory fades) for a short
distance back in the early 60s. Never could sort out the tranny in
that.

I just came back in trying it in my F150. There was no possible
contortion that would allow me to do it with the left foot.

Harry K

  #24  
Old December 24th 05, 04:58 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.

Harry K wrote:

> Larry Bud wrote:


>>What's so hard to see? When you're stopped, the clutch AND brake pedal
>>are fully depressed, causing you to stop. As you release BOTH at the
>>same time, the clutch takes over and makes it so you don't roll
>>backward.


> And right thee is the problem. The clutch is fully depressed but the
> brake pedal won't even be 1/2 way to the boards.


Perhaps he has a bit of extra air in his brake system. And, like you
said, there's no way to get the left foot to press both at the same time
while the clutch is down on the floor. I couldn't do it in my Audi either.

Every reference to heel-toe refers to the right foot operating the brake
while rev matching. I've never heard of the technique that Larry describes.
  #25  
Old December 24th 05, 05:17 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.



Arif Khokar wrote:

> Harry K wrote:
>
> > Larry Bud wrote:

>
> >>What's so hard to see? When you're stopped, the clutch AND brake pedal
> >>are fully depressed, causing you to stop. As you release BOTH at the
> >>same time, the clutch takes over and makes it so you don't roll
> >>backward.

>
> > And right thee is the problem. The clutch is fully depressed but the
> > brake pedal won't even be 1/2 way to the boards.

>
> Perhaps he has a bit of extra air in his brake system. And, like you
> said, there's no way to get the left foot to press both at the same time
> while the clutch is down on the floor. I couldn't do it in my Audi either.
>
> Every reference to heel-toe refers to the right foot operating the brake
> while rev matching. I've never heard of the technique that Larry describes.


I was under the impression that it was technique used in rallying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

But that's accelerator and brake.

Graham

  #26  
Old December 24th 05, 06:34 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.

Harry K wrote:

>
> I just came back in trying it in my F150. There was no possible
> contortion that would allow me to do it with the left foot.
> -----

I'm not qualified to write the definitive treatise concerning "heel &
toeing" but the technique often involves different strategies for
particular vehicles and differing situations... depending on the
driver. The long throw of a clutch in a pickup is not an appropiate
example of L foot heel & toeing. Heel & toeing doesn't come in very
handy outside of racing and it takes a ****load of practice to use it
effectively.

Using the R foot to operate the throttle/brake was (is?) probably the
most common method of double-clutching a downshift for a corner... but
some guys heel the throttle, some guys heel the brake. Some guys
alternate depending on whether braking into the corner or accelerating
out of it seems most advantageous... and that can vary, depending on
traffic for example. Some guys heel & toe the clutch/brake with the L
foot using the heel for either. It's pretty much driver preference,
equipment allowing.

But the original posters receipt of advice that "one should never rev
the engine while letting the clutch out" is clearly wrong but probably
well intended. Clutches are wear items, you don't want to abuse them,
but wear they must and will.

Practice will allow the observant driver starting from a stop on the
steepest of grades to learn to quickly release the brake, disengage
(release the pedal) the clutch and apply throttle in a manner that will
minimize (not eliminate... [not you, nate]) excessive clutch wear and
cause the vehicle to proceed forward smoothly with minimal, if any
backward motion.

If you drive primarily in an urban area with a lot of steep hills you
shouldn't even own a manual transmission. IMNSHO, there's no sense in
having a manual transmission in any vehicle primarily intended for use
on public roads... but that's just me.
-----

- gpsman

  #27  
Old December 24th 05, 04:28 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.

I have driven manual transimissions all my life. Never had an auto in
a car until I was in my 40s. Those cars included both foreign and
domestic. In none of them was left foot on brake and clutch a
reasonable way to do it.

While use of handbrake on hills is an easy, simple method, using
footbrake+accelerator accomplishes the same thing and results in no
more wear on the clutch than the handbrake does. While hold the brake
you release the clutch until it begins to grab, add a bit of gas while
releasing the brake and you are off. That description applies to both
hand and foot brake.
The OP's reference to "reving the engine" has been taken way out of
context IMO. All he meant was to increase the gas a bit.

Heel and toeing while driving is a totally different thing than
starting from a stop doing it. I myself have never been able to do it
well, even in a couple Volvos (59 PV544 and 62 122s - both new). I can
shift clutchless much better but that is slower than using the clutch.

You do have a point about manual transmissions in modern cars. They
are just as fuel efficient (in some cases more so) than the manual.
The old perjorative "slush box" went out the window 30 years (or more)
ago when the torque converter lock-up became standard. IMO there is
no benefit to a manual in standard passenger cars. For sporty type
cars, give me a manual just for the sheer fun of driving.

Now for a PU, I have never bought a new one, always well maintained,
medium mileage used. Always I insist on a manual. That is just me and
I have been in a spot or two when I would have better off with an auto.

Harry K

  #30  
Old December 31st 05, 04:50 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Saving my (expensive) clutch.

In article >,
Pooh Bear > wrote:
>
>
>Larry Bud wrote:
>
>> > > Don't you guys know how to do the two foot tango with 3 pedals?
>> > >
>> > > Left foot goes on clutch AND brake, right foot on accelerator. As the
>> > > left foot releases, you're engaging the clutch and releasing the brake,
>> > > all in one motion. Give it a little gas as you normally would when
>> > > starting and you don't roll back.
>> >
>> > NO.
>> >
>> > Learn how to REALLY drive a manual transmission; then get back to us.

>>
>> That is the way. Just because you don't understand it or are unable to
>> do it doesn't make it wrong.

>
>It's a shocking way to use a manual tranny.


Only to those with an extremely low shock threshold.

>One slip of the foot and the car is totally out of control.


One slip of the foot and the car stalls.

>Use that during a driving test and it's a guaranteed fail..


Depends on where you are.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
 




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