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HOV lane behavior...



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 25th 05, 01:15 AM
brink
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Default HOV lane behavior...

just wondering what people's thoughts are on this....

in so. cal, the HOV lanes are restricted 24 hrs/day to 2+ occupants.
exiting and entering the lanes are also restricted by solid white lines.
there are dotted exit/entry areas every 1-3 miles that are pretty short
(less than a quarter mile sometimes), especially for the volume, speed
differential of traffic on routes with these lanes (i.e. HOV lanes cruising
at 65-70 MPH while the rest of traffic stuck at less than 40) and bunches of
cars moving in and out at those few allowed lane change points.

in short, getting in and out of those HOV lanes at peak times can be a
challenge, to say the least.

anyway, my question is how strictly LLBing protocol should be applied to HOV
lanes in y'all's opinions. i nearly always drive with a passenger and thus
usually use the HOV lanes. i set the cruise at a nice 70MPH in these lanes
whenever possible (they're signed at 65MPH) and will let any speedsters past
when legal and possible, though sometimes there's no choice but to wait a
mile or two until the beloved dotted line returns.

the problem is during PEAK times when traffic is bumper to bumper in teh
non-HOV lanes and going much slower than the sailing HOV traffic. letting
the guy who wants to do 80+ pass can be dang near impossible because that
maneuver usually requries waiting for the lane change zone and then SLAMMING
on the brakes as i cut into the non-restricted lanes.

this is probably putting too fine a point on it, but you get the picture.
plus the fact that once you're out of the lanes, you've gotta get back IN,
which can be tricky in said traffic, especially if you've used that whole
dotted line zone just to find a slot to get out of the lane.

i happen to think so. cal drivers are actually *more* courteous and sensible
than the average driver in other areas of the country, contrary to popular
belief. but every so often you get the uber-agressive tailgater types who
will tailgate in the HOV lane with NOWHERE for me to legally get over to let
them pass.

my solution is usually to use a subtle "ruboff" maneuver of cancelling the
cruise and letting my speed drop from 70 to about 60. and then accelerate
hard back to 70. lather, rinse, repeat as necessary, usually the message is
received with a minimum amount of ire and i avoid the confrontational "brake
tap" warning. and i continue to look for the next possible place to get
over.

thoughts?

brink


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  #2  
Old May 25th 05, 01:53 AM
william lynch
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Default

brink wrote:

> just wondering what people's thoughts are on this....
>
> in so. cal, the HOV lanes are restricted 24 hrs/day to 2+ occupants.
> exiting and entering the lanes are also restricted by solid white lines.
> there are dotted exit/entry areas every 1-3 miles that are pretty short
> (less than a quarter mile sometimes), especially for the volume, speed
> differential of traffic on routes with these lanes (i.e. HOV lanes cruising
> at 65-70 MPH while the rest of traffic stuck at less than 40) and bunches of
> cars moving in and out at those few allowed lane change points.
>
> in short, getting in and out of those HOV lanes at peak times can be a
> challenge, to say the least.
>
> anyway, my question is how strictly LLBing protocol should be applied to HOV
> lanes in y'all's opinions. i nearly always drive with a passenger and thus
> usually use the HOV lanes. i set the cruise at a nice 70MPH in these lanes
> whenever possible (they're signed at 65MPH) and will let any speedsters past
> when legal and possible, though sometimes there's no choice but to wait a
> mile or two until the beloved dotted line returns.
>
> the problem is during PEAK times when traffic is bumper to bumper in teh
> non-HOV lanes and going much slower than the sailing HOV traffic. letting
> the guy who wants to do 80+ pass can be dang near impossible because that
> maneuver usually requries waiting for the lane change zone and then SLAMMING
> on the brakes as i cut into the non-restricted lanes.
>
> this is probably putting too fine a point on it, but you get the picture.
> plus the fact that once you're out of the lanes, you've gotta get back IN,
> which can be tricky in said traffic, especially if you've used that whole
> dotted line zone just to find a slot to get out of the lane.
>
> i happen to think so. cal drivers are actually *more* courteous and sensible
> than the average driver in other areas of the country, contrary to popular
> belief. but every so often you get the uber-agressive tailgater types who
> will tailgate in the HOV lane with NOWHERE for me to legally get over to let
> them pass.
>
> my solution is usually to use a subtle "ruboff" maneuver of cancelling the
> cruise and letting my speed drop from 70 to about 60. and then accelerate
> hard back to 70. lather, rinse, repeat as necessary, usually the message is
> received with a minimum amount of ire and i avoid the confrontational "brake
> tap" warning. and i continue to look for the next possible place to get
> over.
>
> thoughts?
>
> brink


I agree on most points here, but you are about to get several
posters telling you that you should be shot for blocking any
car at any time. Failing to observe the established 85% speed
of 140 mph is a death penalty offense.
  #3  
Old May 25th 05, 02:20 AM
Arif Khokar
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Posts: n/a
Default

brink wrote:

> just wondering what people's thoughts are on this....
>
> in so. cal, the HOV lanes are restricted 24 hrs/day to 2+ occupants.
> exiting and entering the lanes are also restricted by solid white lines.
> there are dotted exit/entry areas every 1-3 miles that are pretty short
> (less than a quarter mile sometimes), especially for the volume, speed
> differential of traffic on routes with these lanes (i.e. HOV lanes cruising
> at 65-70 MPH while the rest of traffic stuck at less than 40) and bunches of
> cars moving in and out at those few allowed lane change points.
>
> in short, getting in and out of those HOV lanes at peak times can be a
> challenge, to say the least.
>
> anyway, my question is how strictly LLBing protocol should be applied to HOV
> lanes in y'all's opinions.


People say "y'all" in California?

Getting back to the subject, if you're passing traffic with a 30 mph
differential, you're not LLBing. If it takes less than 20 seconds to
catch up to the next vehicle one lane over to the right, then you don't
have to move right.

Of course, if you have a lot of people tailgating you, then you should
consider driving faster.
  #4  
Old May 25th 05, 03:08 AM
Garth Almgren
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Default

Around 5/24/2005 5:53 PM, william lynch wrote:

> Failing to observe the established 85% speed
> of 140 mph is a death penalty offense.


You really have no idea how the 85th percentile method of establishing
safe and sane speed limits works, do you?


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
  #5  
Old May 25th 05, 05:46 AM
The Real Bev
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Default

Arif Khokar wrote:
>
> brink wrote:
>
> > just wondering what people's thoughts are on this....
> >
> > in so. cal, the HOV lanes are restricted 24 hrs/day to 2+ occupants.
> > exiting and entering the lanes are also restricted by solid white lines.
> > there are dotted exit/entry areas every 1-3 miles that are pretty short
> > (less than a quarter mile sometimes), especially for the volume, speed
> > differential of traffic on routes with these lanes (i.e. HOV lanes cruising
> > at 65-70 MPH while the rest of traffic stuck at less than 40) and bunches of
> > cars moving in and out at those few allowed lane change points.
> >
> > in short, getting in and out of those HOV lanes at peak times can be a
> > challenge, to say the least.
> >
> > anyway, my question is how strictly LLBing protocol should be applied to HOV
> > lanes in y'all's opinions.

>
> People say "y'all" in California?
>
> Getting back to the subject, if you're passing traffic with a 30 mph
> differential, you're not LLBing. If it takes less than 20 seconds to
> catch up to the next vehicle one lane over to the right, then you don't
> have to move right.


The speed at which you (in the HOV lane) are passing traffic in the remaining
lanes is irrelevant to your LLB status.

I've only used the HOV lane a couple of times. Both on the 605 and both
traveling 65 or 70 when the normal traffic was going perhaps 0-20. It's
really scary passing cars that fast -- you never can tell when some desperate
soul is going to go over the edge and zip across the double yellow into the
HOV lane. Under those circumstances I go as fast as the guy in front of me is
going.

> Of course, if you have a lot of people tailgating you, then you should
> consider driving faster.


That's why I usually stick to the right lane.

--
Cheers,
Bev
0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o 0o0o0o0o0o0o0
Judges are our only protection against a legal system that can
afford lots more prosecution than we can afford defense.
  #6  
Old May 25th 05, 06:11 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> Garth Almgren wrote:
> > Around 5/24/2005 5:53 PM, william lynch wrote:
> >
> > Failing to observe the established 85% speed
> > of 140 mph is a death penalty offense.

>
> You really have no idea how the 85th percentile method of establishing
> safe and sane speed limits works, do you?



I think they call it "sarcasm"....

Froggie

  #7  
Old May 25th 05, 01:25 PM
Craig Holl
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Posts: n/a
Default

brink wrote:
> just wondering what people's thoughts are on this....
>
> in so. cal, the HOV lanes are restricted 24 hrs/day to 2+ occupants.
> exiting and entering the lanes are also restricted by solid white
> lines. there are dotted exit/entry areas every 1-3 miles that are
> pretty short (less than a quarter mile sometimes), especially for the
> volume, speed differential of traffic on routes with these lanes
> (i.e. HOV lanes cruising at 65-70 MPH while the rest of traffic stuck
> at less than 40) and bunches of cars moving in and out at those few
> allowed lane change points.
> in short, getting in and out of those HOV lanes at peak times can be a
> challenge, to say the least.
>
> anyway, my question is how strictly LLBing protocol should be applied
> to HOV lanes in y'all's opinions. i nearly always drive with a
> passenger and thus usually use the HOV lanes. i set the cruise at a
> nice 70MPH in these lanes whenever possible (they're signed at 65MPH)
> and will let any speedsters past when legal and possible, though
> sometimes there's no choice but to wait a mile or two until the
> beloved dotted line returns.


If the main lanes are congested, the HOV lane(s) are basically a separate
roadway. And since in LA most of them are single lane, there can be no LLB
by definition. Now, if you weren't going at least the speed limit,
(assuming non-congested HOV lane) that would be kinda jerkish. But going 70
mph is fine.

If the main lanes are not congested, your speed doesn't really matter, since
if you were impeding someone they could easily get into the main lanes to go
faster.

I was able to drive the SB 405 HOV lanes from LAX to the 5 a couple times
last summer when I was there. The main lanes were congested. I drove up to
80 mph when the lane was clear, and when I was behind someone I just left my
normal cushion between us. It was sometimes a little frustrating when our
platoon was only going 65 mph with clear sailing ahead, but I kept reminding
myself that it was MUCH better than averaging 20 mph in the main lanes. So
even that wasn't too bad.

I would say for you to keep at your 65-70 mph. Don't switch into the main
lanes, to let people by, as that could cause more trouble than it's worth.

--
Craig Holl
Mechanical Engineer; New Berlin, WI
www.midwestroads.com
*remove all numbers and caps to reply*


  #8  
Old May 25th 05, 01:33 PM
Eddie
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Craig wrote:
"I would say for you to keep at your 65-70 mph. Don't switch into the
main lanes, to let people by, as that could cause more trouble than
it's worth."

Agreed

  #9  
Old May 25th 05, 03:57 PM
Eddie
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Scott-e-A wrote: "Wrong, Carl Taylor. YOU do not get to decide how
fast other drivers should go. YOU need to obey the law and get out of
the way of faster traffic, and leave the speed enforcement to the
police."

This is blatant double-standards, Scott.

Surely if Carl does not 'get to decide how fast other drivers should
go' then you do not get to decide whether other drivers should pull
over. That, too, is the job of the police!

Eddie

  #10  
Old May 25th 05, 04:40 PM
william lynch
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Garth Almgren wrote:

> Around 5/24/2005 5:53 PM, william lynch wrote:
>
>> Failing to observe the established 85% speed
>> of 140 mph is a death penalty offense.

>
> You really have no idea how the 85th percentile method of establishing
> safe and sane speed limits works, do you?


I have read a number of analyses. But my comment was directed at
those here who use the idea as a justification for driving as fast
as possible everywhere. For further info look up the dictionary
definition of 'sarcasm'.
 




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