Just mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years - saving over $400

UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

For example, the "drop center" trick that Clare taught me was, by far, the
most critical trick of all. And, this time, I learned that it's a bad idea
leaving the packing tape on the tires as it makes it harder to seat the
bead if the beads are bent inward versus pushed out a bit.

While I've done all sizes from 15" wheels to 17" wheels, these 15" P225/75
Optimo H724 tires have thick sidewalls that make it a bit more difficult
than the 99V passenger car tires to break the 1st bead and seat the 6th
bead.

One mistake I made was to leave the packing tape still on the tires while
they waited for me to find my "round tuit", where the pinching in of the
beads made seating the tire problematic for the few seconds that it takes
to pop the bead into place.

I had to ask a second person to help pull up the upper bead with one hand
and a knee while I pushed up from below with two hands, where another trick
I learned long ago was to adapt an airgun to screw into the Schrader valve
so that filling it with air during the bead-seating process is essentially
hands free.

This mountain eats up everyone's tires, which _never_ get the claimed
mileage (not even close) but I can't use the warranty because I can't prove
that I do all the work myself.

Cost savings at $20/tire = $600 minus about $200 for tools = $400 to date,
but the real value is the satisfaction of being able to do it myself.

Here are some photos, just so you see what it looks like.
o This SUV needs to be taken in for a front-end alignment:
<https://i.postimg.cc/q7t7ZRzj/mount01.jpg>
o Breaking the 1st bead takes a couple of minutes:
<https://i.postimg.cc/26DfF8vq/mount02.jpg>
o The outside edge of the front tires wears too much:
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg>
o TREADWEAR is said to be 500 (but it won't get that):
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zSWvgCZ/mount04.jpg>
o The tire valves are about 1-1/2 inch long (.453):
<https://i.postimg.cc/sXX4L55b/mount05.jpg>
o I replaced the valves with all-metal valves:
<https://i.postimg.cc/nVNNvLJn/mount06.jpg>
o This home-made adaptor works great to seat the beads:
<https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg>
o Leaving the packing tape on was a bad idea:
<https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg>
o I mounted the "red spot" next to the tire valve:
<https://i.postimg.cc/Pqq6GGj6/mount09.jpg>

For anyone who wants to do it yourself, the tools cost about $200 where I
got most of mine from Harbor Freight, where those tools suck, but they do
the job.

What you need is:
o A dedicated bead breaker (the one with the mounter sucks even worse).
This tool is a pain to use but it breaks a bead in a couple of minutes.
You have to put a board on it because the base is too short.
o A bolted-in tire-mounting tool (you _must_ bolt it down!)
The bead breaker attachment on the mounter is nearly worthless.
o A static bubble balancer
o A set of tire irons (these aren't necessary, but are sometimes helpful
when you have a problem with the 6th and final bead)
o Vise grips - you need them - surprisingly - because the HF mounting tool
handle twists in your hands so the vise grips provide leverage to keep it
from twisting.
o A Schrader Valve Screwdriver (you need this to remove the insert so that
you can quickly fill the tire to set the beads during the final step)
o Dish detergent (everything is surprisingly easy when lubricated)
o Tire marking pen (to mark the inside sidewall after each rotation)
o Wheel weights (to static balance the wheel after mounting)
o Hammer (to tap the wheel weights into place)
o I have a valve-stem removal tool but it's not needed (just use a knife)
o Floor jack, wheel chocks, jack stands, lug wrench, torque wrench (to
remove and replace the wheels from the vehicle)
o Compressor, hoses, chucks, gauges (to seat the bead & fill the tire with
air)

Parts:
o Tires (Costco takes old tires for $1 each, plus sales tax)
o Wheel weights (it seems that 1 to 2 ounces seems to be needed most
o Valve stems (I kind of like the 0.453 diameter 1-1/2 inch steel ones)

On 4/29/19 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> UPDATE:
>
> Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
> each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.
>
>

I've considered a lot of hobbies to amuse myself while I ride this dirt ball around the Sun but I must admit that tire wrestling is not one of them.Â* But hey, if it blows your skirt up, knock yourself out.

On 4/29/2019 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> UPDATE:
>
> Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
> each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.
>
>
> This mountain eats up everyone's tires, which _never_ get the claimed
> mileage (not even close) but I can't use the warranty because I can't prove
> that I do all the work myself.
>
> Cost savings at $20/tire = $600 minus about $200 for tools = $400 to date,
> but the real value is the satisfaction of being able to do it myself.
>
Whatever works for you. n the past 15 years I paid to have 8 tires
changed. No payback for me.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:06:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

> About the same here, 4 in the last 5 years. Got them mounted at Costco
> for $15 each. They will even mount tires that you don't buy there.

Hi trader_4,

Usenet is a shared information source, sort of like a Potluck Picnic, where
each person tries to bring something of value to all to the picnic table.

Hence, every post is designed to add value for everyone, so I THANK YOU for
that purposefully helpful and very useful information about the Costco
setup.

The Costco near me _used_ to refuse to mount non-Costco tires, so I was
surprised that you said yours mounts non-Costco tires.

Armed with your purposefully helpful information, I called the local Costco
at (831)469-0961 x5 (other), x4 (auto), who confirmed EXACTLY what you just
said!

This is great news, where I'll contribute this to the Potluck Picnic:
o $60 to mount four tires on four wheels (on or off the vehicle)
o $20 to dynamically balance four wheels (if they are off the vehicle)
o $22 to dynamically balance four wheels (if they are on the vehicle)
o $11 to repair a tire
o $1 to dispose of old tires (the guy said that's what they get charged)

In addition:
o They won't let you ship tires to them; but you can bring them in.
o They won't mount tires older than 3 years (based on the date stamp)
o They will rotate & balance tires that are older than 3 years though
o You don¢t get the Costco-tire free lifetime balance & rotation though
o They will not touch tires below the 2/32" wear bars for any purpose

When I asked the Costco guy _when_ this started, the guy said they used to
work on non-Costco tires years ago, and then stopped, and now started it up
only about two years ago.

> And they dynamically balance them too, which you can't do at home.

Just to be clear, and to ensure we're always adding value to the potluck
picnic that is Usenet, the empirical dynamic balance test is free, and
extremely easily done "at home".

You just drive the car at highway speeds.
o If you can't feel vibration, it's dynamically balanced (AFAIK).

Besides, with this new information you've kindly brought to the Potluck
Picnic which is Usenet, for $20 in toto, we can _check_ how well we
statically balanced the four wheels.

This is _great_ news you brought up that Costco does this for us!
o Thanks for bringing value for all in the Potluck Picnic that is Usenet

> I do a lot of work on cars myself, brakes, transfer case chain, valve
> cover gaskets, water pumps, but not this when you can get it
> done in 20 mins for $15 a tire.

Hi trader,
I agree with you on your facts of the Costco prices, and on most of your
logic (adults are funny in that facts are easy to agree on, as is rational
logic).

Your logic is that it's "easier" to let Costco do it all for you, where the
facts I'll contribute which affect the logic is that I've never been to
Costco tire center without standing on long lines, even if I get there at
opening time, so the _actual_ time is no where near 20 minutes for four
tires.

Obviously the actual time will vary greatly, but 20 minutes doesn't seem
rational to me for four tires at a typical Costco, which, I hope most
people know, isn't exactly known for short lines (e.g., even the gas
station lines are long, as are the food court lines, and the purchasing
lines, and even the line to ask a question of the eyeglass center or
pharmacists).

Where on earth to you have a Costco which not only has no lines, but which
does the entire job in 20 minutes for four tires, where I can't even get to
the counter in that time frame, let alone have them do all the paperwork
and pay for it, etc. in that time frame?

> Those other repairs just use the typical
> shop tools that I already have and I saved $$$$. Transfer case chain is
> a good example, it would be $3000 at the BMW dealer, I did it for $100.

Hi trader,
As you're aware, I did a clutch a few months back, with the help of this
newsgroup, as I had to replace the flywheel, for example, which required
tools that I couldn't find at the local auto parts stores (the pilot
bearing pulling tools were too large to fit in the ID of the pilot
bearing).

This newsgroup is GREAT for learning things, since there are helpful people
here who contribute to the potluck picnic something that EVERYONE can learn
from.

My contribution is that the job is easy, and it takes about the same amount
of time (when you factor everything in) as having a shop do it, so you
don't do the job at home to save time.

You mostly do the job at home to learn, and to enjoy doing it, and to
relish in the _knowledge_ gained by doing things yourself, which is, after
all, a key purpose of doing _any_ repair by yourself.

As for savings, with this "new costco math", the savings, in 5 years, a
o $450 at Costco for 30 tires minus $200 for tools = savings of only $250

If we add the dynamic balance check, the math becomes:
o $250 minus $20 = about $225 (I'm rounding numbers for easy math)

The key point to make is that there are _benefits_ to home repair
o One key benefit is that you _learn_ more about things
o Another key benefit is that you can do it any time you want to
o Another benefit is that you can do it more often when you do it yourself
o Another benefit is that you can "save" tires they won't repair (if you
want to, as it's your choice based on your decision tree)
o The best benefit is the satisfaction of self sufficiency

The cost benefit is always going to be there ... for example, the tools
almost always pay for themselves ... but that's not the main reason you do
home repair yourself.

The main reason is that you learn about and enjoy home repairs, and that
you have the convenience of doing the job the way you want the job done
(e.g., you use steel tire valves even if the tire shop doesn't use them).

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> o I mounted the "red spot" next to the tire valve:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Pqq6GGj6/mount09.jpg>

Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of
the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round
wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches
with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah,
that would be mean.

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 1:04:26 PM UTC-5, Sanity Clause wrote:
> Arlen G. Holder wrote:
>
> > o I mounted the "red spot" next to the tire valve:
> > <https://i.postimg.cc/Pqq6GGj6/mount09.jpg>
>
> Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of
> the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round
> wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches
> with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah,
> that would be mean.

But do you spray a little bit of flamable fluid inside the tire and stand back and throw a match at it? That is fun.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 18:02:32 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> As for savings, with this "new costco math", the savings, in 5 years, a
> o $450 at Costco for 30 tires minus $200 for tools = savings of only $250
>
> If we add the dynamic balance check, the math becomes:
> o $250 minus $20 = about $225 (I'm rounding numbers for easy math)

Oooops. The math may be off a bit as it was off the cuff above, but the
math isnt' the main reason you get satisfaction out of being self
sufficient, just as the math in the enjoyment of composting isn't in the
saving you might get from having a smaller garbage pail.

IMHO, if we want to talk savings, I suspect the real savings are that you
can choose any tire you like when you buy the lowest priced best-quality
tires at a reputable outlet such as "SimpleTire", which, alone, saves you a
ton of money where they don't charge sales tax or shipping most of the time
in addition to having great prices, and _then_ you can mount them yourself,
or, you can have Costco mount & balance them for $15, or, you can have
Costco just balance them for $5.

The point is that most people make excuses when the reality always seems to
be that they just don't like getting their hands dirty on this job, where
the main reason for doing a home repair like this is, IMHO, the
satisfaction of being self sufficient and in doing the job right (e.g.,
metal valves, heavy spot properly placed, fewest wheel weights, etc.).

There are other ancillary advantages, e.g., you can fix things when stores
are closed, you can do them in your pajamas without having to wait in lines
at the shop, you can fix things that they might not touch, e.g., nearer to
the shoulder than they might fix or more worn than they might touch, etc.,
all of which are adult decisions YOU can make, and not them (as long as
you're aware of the RMA guidlines which we all presumably are well aware
of).

You can even patch a leak from the outside, if you do it at home, where
nobody here is likely to be insisting they never did that in their life!


In short, most of what I hear from people as to why they don't like doing
their homework is from people who have _never_ done it.

The ones who have never done it always seem to have the mnost excuses.
o When the fact is that it's trivially easy to mount/balance at home.

As far as I know, only Clare has done it, and he is clear that he doesn't
like doing it, particulrly with ****ty equipment, where I don't disagree
and where I applaud his honesty.

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 2:41:34 PM UTC-5, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 18:02:32 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:
>
> > As for savings, with this "new costco math", the savings, in 5 years, a
> > o $450 at Costco for 30 tires minus $200 for tools = savings of only $250
> >
> > If we add the dynamic balance check, the math becomes:
> > o $250 minus $20 = about $225 (I'm rounding numbers for easy math)
>
> Oooops. The math may be off a bit as it was off the cuff above, but the
> math isnt' the main reason you get satisfaction out of being self
> sufficient, just as the math in the enjoyment of composting isn't in the
> saving you might get from having a smaller garbage pail.
>
> IMHO, if we want to talk savings, I suspect the real savings are that you
> can choose any tire you like when you buy the lowest priced best-quality
> tires at a reputable outlet such as "SimpleTire", which, alone, saves you a
> ton of money where they don't charge sales tax or shipping most of the time
> in addition to having great prices, and _then_ you can mount them yourself,
> or, you can have Costco mount & balance them for $15, or, you can have
> Costco just balance them for $5.
>
> The point is that most people make excuses when the reality always seems to
> be that they just don't like getting their hands dirty on this job, where
> the main reason for doing a home repair like this is, IMHO, the
> satisfaction of being self sufficient and in doing the job right (e.g.,
> metal valves, heavy spot properly placed, fewest wheel weights, etc.).
>
> There are other ancillary advantages, e.g., you can fix things when stores
> are closed, you can do them in your pajamas without having to wait in lines
> at the shop, you can fix things that they might not touch, e.g., nearer to
> the shoulder than they might fix or more worn than they might touch, etc.,
> all of which are adult decisions YOU can make, and not them (as long as
> you're aware of the RMA guidlines which we all presumably are well aware
> of).
>
> You can even patch a leak from the outside, if you do it at home, where
> nobody here is likely to be insisting they never did that in their life!
>
>
> In short, most of what I hear from people as to why they don't like doing
> their homework is from people who have _never_ done it.
>
> The ones who have never done it always seem to have the mnost excuses.
> o When the fact is that it's trivially easy to mount/balance at home.
>
> As far as I know, only Clare has done it, and he is clear that he doesn't
> like doing it, particulrly with ****ty equipment, where I don't disagree
> and where I applaud his honesty.

Old School Vulcanizing Tire Patch Youtube ...Those were the good old days.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:05:44 -0700, Sanity Clause wrote:

> Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of
> the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round
> wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches
> with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah,
> that would be mean.

Hi Sanity Claus,

I appreciate those comments, where, if you have a cite that backs up your
belief system, I think it would be useful to all, as Usenet is designed to
be a potluck picnic where each person adds value where they can.

Without further cites, I'd just note offhand that we have a looooooooong
thread on a.h.r, as I recall, on this topic of exactly what the red and
yellow spots mean, which can be _different_ for each manufacturer (and
which aren't always there).

For example, we've covered that the marks are generally most useful for
brand-new wheels (where the original match mounting marks are still
visible), and we've covered why the light spot is still generally the valve
area (all else being equal, of course), even though there's an "additional"
valve there, simply because the plug of missing steel is generally heavier
than the rubber & brass valve despite the very many old intuitive wives
tales to the contrary.

I'm all about facts, where we've looked at the cites in the past to
conclude that, in the absence of match-mounting marks on the wheel, the
best course for a starting point mount at home is the red spot goes next to
the valve if you have a red spot, and if you have only a yellow spot, as I
recall, it goes opposite the valve (but I'd have to dig up the cites to
doublecheck on that as most tires I've mounted have both the red and yellow
so I only use the red mark as my starting point).

In summary, if you can back up your belief system with a cite, I'll read
it, and if you want, I can dig up cites that back up my belief system since
my belief system is never imaginary - my belief system is _always_ based on
actual facts.

If facts show I need to _change_ my belief system, then I'll change it.
o But at the moment, the facts show the red dot goes next to the valve
(for stock steel wheels, and for most manufacturers' tires)

If you have facts that show otherwise, please cite them so we all benefit
from every post.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:00:32 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> If facts show I need to _change_ my belief system, then I'll change it.
> o But at the moment, the facts show the red dot goes next to the valve
> (for stock steel wheels, and for most manufacturers' tires)

I'm always beholden to facts as I abhor imaginary belief systems.

Since I'm allergic to the intuition of old wives tales, but also since my
memory is not even close to perfect, I looked up the cites again, even
though I haven't read them in years, where it must be noted that the only
perfect cite will be one from Hancook, which I didn't find, so we have to
go on what we can find.

This is what Yokohama says about tire match mounting & balancing
<https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting>
"To facilitate proper balancing, Yokohama places red and yellow marks on
the sidewalls of its tires to enable the best possible match-mounting of
the tire/wheel assembly. There are two methods of match-mounting Yokohama
tires to wheel assemblies using these red or yellow marks:

Uniformity (red mark)
"If the point of minimum radial run-out is not indicated on a wheel
assembly, the weight method of match-mounting should be used."

Weight (yellow mark)
"When performing weight match-mounting, the yellow mark on the tire,
indicating the point of lightest weight, should be aligned with the valve
stem on the wheel assembly, which represents the heaviest weight point of
the wheel assembly. "

This is exactly what you said, and the exact opposite of what I had said,
so I appreciate that you bring up that my memory was faulty.

Moving on for confirmation... I'll tackle a couple more hits & respond, but
I wanted to THANK YOU for bringing up the point that my memory was faulty,
which I APPRECIATE greatly!

I'm always beholden to facts as I abhor imaginary belief systems.