Gotcha, you damn drunk driver

> Don't we both kayak? I'm still not married, Miker, the possibilities are
> endless.... ;-)

No, I had a Perception Quest years back when plastic roto-molded kayaks were
relatively new... it was a rounded-keel boat suited to rivers and I was in a
flat-water environment. A sea kayak of some kind would have done me better.
But I still had fun with it and remember it fondly.

A couple years ago my wife won a kayak "3 hour cruise" with a local guy in a
raffle at work and sent me on it up the St Croix river (MN/WI border), that
was beautiful. I could still balance and paddle but tired quickly and I felt
it the next day.

Where do you paddle?

miker

miker wrote:

> No, I had a Perception Quest years back when plastic roto-molded kayaks were
> relatively new... it was a rounded-keel boat suited to rivers and I was in a
> flat-water environment. A sea kayak of some kind would have done me better.
> But I still had fun with it and remember it fondly.
>
> A couple years ago my wife won a kayak "3 hour cruise" with a local guy in a
> raffle at work and sent me on it up the St Croix river (MN/WI border), that
> was beautiful. I could still balance and paddle but tired quickly and I felt
> it the next day.
>
> Where do you paddle?
>
> miker

Lake Travis for the most part, because it is about a block away. The
deadliest lake in Texas, woohoo!
I have to paddle like a madman to catch those drunk power boaters. :-)

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/pat/DSCF0005.JPG

Pat

> Lake Travis for the most part, because it is about a block away. The
> deadliest lake in Texas, woohoo!
> I have to paddle like a madman to catch those drunk power boaters. :-)

Looks nice. I live fairly close to Lake Minnetonka, which is a fascinating
collection of bays, islands, and connecting channels, but there's WAY too
many boats (power and sail) for pleasant kayaking. I did see some people
getting instruction up in Copper Harbor MI last month, that looks like an
excellent sea-kayaking place as well - cold water but no man-eating fish.

miker

miker wrote:

> Looks nice. I live fairly close to Lake Minnetonka, which is a fascinating
> collection of bays, islands, and connecting channels, but there's WAY too
> many boats (power and sail) for pleasant kayaking. I did see some people
> getting instruction up in Copper Harbor MI last month, that looks like an
> excellent sea-kayaking place as well - cold water but no man-eating fish.
>
> miker


Not a great picture, but there is a lot of paddling room in the coves
where it's pretty safe.

This boat paddles like a kayak, but it is a wide, stable and slow
sit-on-top model, and even has a transom mount for a trolling motor.
It will hold two adults plus a small child or dog up front. It is made
for fishing and hunting rather than covering distance quickly. I mainly
use it for fun and exercise.

I will check out Lake Minnetonka one day. I have seen the pictures and
it looks awesome.

It is absolutely beautiful out there today. I just gave myself the rest
of the day off. Too much work and arguing, not enough fun, I am off to
paddle and see if I can pull in a bass or two.

Feel free to reply to my e-mail if you would like. I am sure that we are
boring the hell out of everyone here..... ;-)

Pat

pws > wrote in
:

> Ok Miker, I am sorry. Peace and love and all of that. ;-)

Hey, you guys, get a room! <GD&R>

Some facts that should have come out of this but may not have:

1. People driving w/o control of the car kill and maim other, it makes
NO difference if the reason for the lack of control is distraction (ie.
cell phone, kids in car, etc.), impairment (alcohol, drugs, stupidity,
etc.) or bad judgement (speeding, unsafe passing, etc.) the effect is
the same, people get killed, people get maimed.

2. There are laws and established punishments for ALL of the above and:

3. These laws have proven to be ineffective.

So what's the fix?

I'll start the discussion by saying I don't have the answer. Two weeks
ago I almost got in a wreck. A guy came off a freeway ramp w/o ever
slowing down, he was moving around 75mph or so and I was driving the
legal 40mph. There were cars in all the other lanes going
approximately the speed limit. I watched in the rearwiew mirror as the
guy apparently intended to park his Chevrolet Tahoe in the trunk of my
Miata (no, it won't fit!). At the very last minute, I heard brakes and
tires screaming, he swung into the next lane narrowly missing the car
there and accelerated (from his 60mph back to 75mph in a 40mph zone!)
past me w/o removing the cell phone from his ear.

Had I been so inclined I probably should have stopped him and smashed
his phone, I wish I had done so as he may have killed someone by now.

XS11E wrote:

> Hey, you guys, get a room! <GD&R>
>
> Some facts that should have come out of this but may not have:
>
> 1. People driving w/o control of the car kill and maim other, it makes
> NO difference if the reason for the lack of control is distraction (ie.
> cell phone, kids in car, etc.), impairment (alcohol, drugs, stupidity,
> etc.) or bad judgement (speeding, unsafe passing, etc.) the effect is
> the same, people get killed, people get maimed.
>
> 2. There are laws and established punishments for ALL of the above and:
>
> 3. These laws have proven to be ineffective.
>
> So what's the fix?
>
> I'll start the discussion by saying I don't have the answer. Two weeks
> ago I almost got in a wreck. A guy came off a freeway ramp w/o ever
> slowing down, he was moving around 75mph or so and I was driving the
> legal 40mph. There were cars in all the other lanes going
> approximately the speed limit. I watched in the rearwiew mirror as the
> guy apparently intended to park his Chevrolet Tahoe in the trunk of my
> Miata (no, it won't fit!). At the very last minute, I heard brakes and
> tires screaming, he swung into the next lane narrowly missing the car
> there and accelerated (from his 60mph back to 75mph in a 40mph zone!)
> past me w/o removing the cell phone from his ear.

This thread was dead and buried. Some level of agreement had even been
reached after two days. Then you go and wave your evil wand and bring it
back to life.
Didn't you see the scorched battlefield? Why would you want to wander
out there? :-)

> Had I been so inclined I probably should have stopped him and smashed
> his phone, I wish I had done so as he may have killed someone by now.

Nah, he would have just bought a new phone. My plan will give me one for
free if I bring them the pieces.

I also feel that temptation to take the law into my own hands, though I
would much rather smash his head than his phone. Of course, doing both
at once is also possible.
Still, it just isn't worth it, as you obviously understand since you are
both alive and not in jail. Gotta let the cops handle it. They have the
authority, the backup, those nifty vests, tasers, helicopters, all sorts
of things that we can not count on.

Pat

pws > wrote in
:

> XS11E wrote:

>> 1. People driving w/o control of the car kill and maim other, it
>> makes NO difference if the reason for the lack of control is
>> distraction (ie. cell phone, kids in car, etc.), impairment
>> (alcohol, drugs, stupidity, etc.) or bad judgement (speeding,
>> unsafe passing, etc.) the effect is the same, people get killed,
>> people get maimed.
>>
>> 2. There are laws and established punishments for ALL of the
>> above and:
>>
>> 3. These laws have proven to be ineffective.
>>
>> So what's the fix?

> This thread was dead and buried. Some level of agreement had even
> been reached after two days. Then you go and wave your evil wand
> and bring it back to life.
> Didn't you see the scorched battlefield? Why would you want to
> wander out there? :-)

Because the important part had not been discussed. Read points 1, 2
and 3 again.

We have the necessary laws, we have enforcement (to some level) but it
isn't working. Someone, somewhere has to come up with a solution of
some sort... why not someone here?

XS11E wrote:

> Because the important part had not been discussed. Read points 1, 2
> and 3 again.

That was tongue-in-cheek. I think that there may be about 4 people left
reading this thread though, so if we want action, you might want to
start a new one. :-)

I do agree with you on not having an answer. I also agree that the laws
are mostly ineffective, but not entirely. Case in point, the driver that
I called in did not get to go as far as he would have, thus possibly
preventing an accident, plus he will probably get to clean up some trash
on the side of the highway while wearing that stylish orange jacket,
which is just a bonus. We do have very clean highways here....

A drop in the bucket, sure, but not entirely without effect. Austin had
over 5,000 DUI arrests last year, or about 14 every day of the year.

Of course, the guy that almost smashed you with his Tahoe was apparently
not impaired by chemicals, just stupidity, so calling in the cops would
have done no good unless they saw him continue to drive recklessly.
They also aren't likely to respond to a *parent yelling at kids in back
seat* call very quickly either.

> We have the necessary laws, we have enforcement (to some level) but it
> isn't working. Someone, somewhere has to come up with a solution of
> some sort... why not someone here?

I can't do it, I am willing to admit that easily enough.
If someone wants to step up to the plate, all the power in the world to
them. I am all for safer streets, especially with my daughter driving
this year for the first time.

Pat

>>> 1. People driving w/o control of the car kill and maim other, it
>>> makes NO difference if the reason for the lack of control is
>>> distraction (ie. cell phone, kids in car, etc.), impairment
>>> (alcohol, drugs, stupidity, etc.) or bad judgement (speeding,
>>> unsafe passing, etc.) the effect is the same, people get killed,
>>> people get maimed.
>>>
>>> 2. There are laws and established punishments for ALL of the
>>> above and:
>>>
>>> 3. These laws have proven to be ineffective.
>>>
>>> So what's the fix?

<snip>

> We have the necessary laws, we have enforcement (to some level) but it
> isn't working. Someone, somewhere has to come up with a solution of
> some sort... why not someone here?

Alright then, I'll bite.

I'd say the first part of the solution is proper driver's education and
testing. None of this nonsense like in the UK and in the US where a parent
or basically anyone else with a driver's license can "teach" someone else to
drive; that's just pure insanity and will lead to bad drivers passing on bad
habits. Sure, some of the bad habits will cause the new driver to fail the
exam, but no practical exam can catch everything, so people will slip
through with appalling driving habits.

Second part - regular testing. My parents (bless them) are dreadful drivers,
but used to be even worse. They moved to Canada when they were in their late
50s, where they had to take a test in order to be allowed to drive there
beyond one year (or something like that). One of them failed which, to my
mind, was a Very Good Thing. I think they both ended up taking a few lessons
which did improve their driving substantially.

Third - and this is tongue in cheek, but would definitely help a lot - make
everyone take motorbike lessons and an exam. I'd been driving a car 15 years
when I was finally allowed to learn how to ride a bike (I managed to remove
the thumb I was under, you see). Learning to ride a motorbike without doubt
improved my car-driving skills: made me much more aware (again?) of what was
going on on the road, made me think ahead much more, made me sit in lanes
much more tightly. Whether it was the fact that I was learning to ride a
bike, or just taking driving lessons of any kind again after 15 years, I'm
not entirely sure, but something about the experience definitely sharpened
up my driving. (As an aside, one brilliant thing on the course was that we
were shown a video of an accident between a helmet-wearing motorcyclist and
a Mini. The Mini ended up driving over the guy's head - he got up afterwards
and was fine. That sure taught us to always wear a helmet and proper
clothing.)

Anyway, that would be my recommendation: real, proper driving instruction
like they've got in Germany and other European countries, and regular
testing (every 5 years or so).

Eric

pws > wrote in
:

> I do agree with you on not having an answer. I also agree that the
> laws are mostly ineffective, but not entirely. Case in point, the
> driver that I called in did not get to go as far as he would have,
> thus possibly preventing an accident, plus he will probably get to
> clean up some trash on the side of the highway while wearing that
> stylish orange jacket, which is just a bonus. We do have very
> clean highways here....

But I'll bet he'll drive drunk again..... :-(