2005 KIA Optima 4cyl - Crankshaft Position Sensor and over-currentsending to CPS

Hi...I have a 2005 KIA Optima 4cyl that is giving me, my mechanic, and
now the dealer trouble. Long story. The car died on the road at
about 15 mph...the tach just dropped to zero! Towed to mechanic...and
the Crankshaft Position Sensor was bad. Had that replaced along with
the timing belt, and another belt (for oil pump?) while the CPS was
replace. Car ran great for 6-8 cycles, mechanic took it on road, and
it died within 10 feet of the shop. He tested the new CPS...fine.

However, the CPS was receiving 7.3V v. 5V required signal. The guess
is that the PCM is bad and needs to be replaced, but my mechanic could
not test whether the PCM was bad. Had the car towed to the dealer
(perhaps BIG mistake). They "diagnosed" the probelem, and told the
mechanic two different stories, and me two further different stories
over 4 phone calls! The dealer says the CPS has frayed harness wire,
and needs to be replaced. My mechanic warranteed the work and told
them he would fix that since he put that in. NOW...the dealer won't
give us the remaining "diagnosis" since they aren't getting the
work!....

So, besides a possible short from a frayed wire harness on the CPS,
what could cause an over-current sending to CPS? Do we need to
replace the PCM, and is there a way to test without having a "good"
PCM on-hand?

Any and all HELP will be much appreciated.....

Regards,
Chris

On Jan 19, 9:01*am, auto518 > wrote:
> Hi...I have a 2005 KIA Optima 4cyl that is giving me, my mechanic, and
> now the dealer trouble. *Long story. *The car died on the road at
> about 15 mph...the tach just dropped to zero! *Towed to mechanic...and
> the Crankshaft Position Sensor was bad. *Had that replaced along with
> the timing belt, and another belt (for oil pump?) while the CPS was
> replace. *Car ran great for 6-8 cycles, mechanic took it on road, and
> it died within 10 feet of the shop. *He tested the new CPS...fine.
>
> However, the CPS was receiving 7.3V v. 5V required signal. *The guess
> is that the PCM is bad and needs to be replaced, but my mechanic could
> not test whether the PCM was bad. *Had the car towed to the dealer
> (perhaps BIG mistake). *They "diagnosed" the probelem, and told the
> mechanic two different stories, and me two further different stories
> over 4 phone calls! *The dealer says the CPS has frayed harness wire,
> and needs to be replaced. *My mechanic warranteed the work and told
> them he would fix that since he put that in. *NOW...the dealer won't
> give us the remaining "diagnosis" since they aren't getting the
> work!....
>

Did you pay the dealer for a diagnosis? If so, its yours and they
have to give it to you. If not, well, you're not out anything.

> So, besides a possible short from a frayed wire harness on the CPS,
> what could cause an over-current sending to CPS? *Do we need to
> replace the PCM, and is there a way to test without having a "good"
> PCM on-hand?
>
> Any and all HELP will be much appreciated.....
>
> Regards,
> Chris

"auto518" > wrote in message news:cf60f746-7c76-4687-875d-
NOW...the dealer won't
> give us the remaining "diagnosis" since they aren't getting the
> work!....
>
> So, besides a possible short from a frayed wire harness on the CPS,
> what could cause an over-current sending to CPS? Do we need to
> replace the PCM, and is there a way to test without having a "good"
> PCM on-hand?
>
> Any and all HELP will be much appreciated.....
>
> Regards,
> Chris

I cant blame the dealership. They are not in the business of free diagnosis
for other mechanics.

You previous mechanic should fix the wiring. Then see if it clears the
problem.

If your chosen mechanic cannot diagnose the PCM, you may have to
either try to pick up one at a wrecking yard and try it , or go back
to the dealership.

My sympathies to you. I know what it is like to have these levels of
electrical problems. I own a Buick Reatta.

On Jan 19, 12:22*pm, "HLS" > wrote:
> "auto518" > wrote in message news:cf60f746-7c76-4687-875d-
>
> NOW...the dealer won't
>
> > give us the remaining "diagnosis" since they aren't getting the
> > work!....
>
> > So, besides a possible short from a frayed wire harness on the CPS,
> > what could cause an over-current sending to CPS? *Do we need to
> > replace the PCM, and is there a way to test without having a "good"
> > PCM on-hand?
>
> > Any and all HELP will be much appreciated.....
>
> > Regards,
> > Chris
>
> I cant blame the dealership. They are not in the business of free diagnosis
> for other mechanics.
>
> You previous mechanic should fix the wiring. *Then see if it clears the
> problem.
>
> If your chosen mechanic cannot diagnose the PCM, you may have to
> either try to pick up one at a wrecking yard and try it , or go back
> to the dealership.
>
> My sympathies to you. *I know what it is like to have these levels of
> electrical problems. *I own a Buick Reatta.

The car was sent to the dealer with arrangement that we would pay for
the diagnosis, they would provide the diagnosis, and my mechanic would
fix the car. I have not been to the dealer to pay the bill yet. In
general I would think the dealer under this arrangement would follow
through. I'll pay for what was agreed, but am reluctant to have them
fix anything is they aren't being straight forward in telling us
what's wrong.

Thanks for the posts!

"auto518" > wrote in message
...

The car was sent to the dealer with arrangement that we would pay for
the diagnosis, they would provide the diagnosis, and my mechanic would
fix the car. I have not been to the dealer to pay the bill yet. In
general I would think the dealer under this arrangement would follow
through. I'll pay for what was agreed, but am reluctant to have them
fix anything is they aren't being straight forward in telling us
what's wrong.

Thanks for the posts!

************

So the dealership is not abiding by a pre-agreement? Since you haven't
paid yet, maybe this is yet negotiable.

I wish we had electric cars. I am so shi**ing tired of mysterious
electronics
that the manufacturers themselves can't fix for less that a $1000, if at
all.

On Jan 19, 2:25*pm, "HLS" > wrote:

> I wish we had electric cars. *I am so shi**ing tired of mysterious
> electronics
> that the manufacturers themselves can't fix for less that a $1000, if at
> all.

I can assure you that they would make it too complicated for the
average Joe to fix that too.
I'm familiar with an electric forklift, name withheld. Anyway, it's
got two shoe-boxed size controllers
for the drive wheels, left and right. It's also got another controller
to run the hydraulics that lift up the forks. There's
also a computer that ties everything together. This computer needs to
be reprogrammed for just about
ANY part that gets replaced. There is money to be made by this
company's tech department. The electric car
manufacturers will follow suit.

"Kruse" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 19, 2:25 pm, "HLS" > wrote:

> I wish we had electric cars. I am so shi**ing tired of mysterious
> electronics
> that the manufacturers themselves can't fix for less that a $1000, if at
> all.

I can assure you that they would make it too complicated for the
average Joe to fix that too.
I'm familiar with an electric forklift, name withheld. Anyway, it's
got two shoe-boxed size controllers
for the drive wheels, left and right. It's also got another controller
to run the hydraulics that lift up the forks. There's
also a computer that ties everything together. This computer needs to
be reprogrammed for just about
ANY part that gets replaced. There is money to be made by this
company's tech department. The electric car
manufacturers will follow suit.

*****
I am afraid you are totally correct. There is only one way to stop this
sort of extortion, and that is to boycott the companies who choose to
do business this way.

HLS wrote:
>
> "Kruse" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jan 19, 2:25 pm, "HLS" > wrote:
>
>> I wish we had electric cars. I am so shi**ing tired of mysterious
>> electronics
>> that the manufacturers themselves can't fix for less that a $1000, if at
>> all.
>
> I can assure you that they would make it too complicated for the
> average Joe to fix that too.
> I'm familiar with an electric forklift, name withheld. Anyway, it's
> got two shoe-boxed size controllers
> for the drive wheels, left and right. It's also got another controller
> to run the hydraulics that lift up the forks. There's
> also a computer that ties everything together. This computer needs to
> be reprogrammed for just about
> ANY part that gets replaced. There is money to be made by this
> company's tech department. The electric car
> manufacturers will follow suit.
>
> *****
> I am afraid you are totally correct. There is only one way to stop this
> sort of extortion, and that is to boycott the companies who choose to
> do business this way.
>
>

Well don't buy ANY of the import hybrids then. Those ALL use multiple
controller computers in them.


--
Steve W.

"Steve W." > wrote in message
...
> HLS wrote:

>>
>> *****
>> I am afraid you are totally correct. There is only one way to stop this
>> sort of extortion, and that is to boycott the companies who choose to
>> do business this way.

> Well don't buy ANY of the import hybrids then. Those ALL use multiple
> controller computers in them.

> Steve W.

I dont doubt that either. It is necessary technically to have multiple
controllers
on such a system, BUT it is not necessary to make electronics which are
intended to be failure prone and unserviceable by anyone but a dealership.

In fact, if that could be proven to be true, it might be getting close to
some
of the deadly sins in restraint of trade legislation.

First I will say that if your mechanic does not have the knowledge to
troubleshoot the simple electrical circuit you need to find another
mechanic. The dealer is right in not giving you his diagnosis unless you
have a written agreement with them to diagnose the problem. He has a lot of
money tied up in training and should not be expected to hand it over for
nothing. All cars today are completely computer controlled and the knowledge
to troubleshoot them requires the mechanic invest the time and money to
learn how to troubleshoot them, not just read a code reader and throw a part
at it. The computer control is dictated by the stringent EPA controls and is
the only to meet the clean air standards. So if you and your mechanic can't
diagnose it go pay the dealer or a mechanic willing to learn the technology
necessary to fix it.
"HLS" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve W." > wrote in message
> ...
>> HLS wrote:
>
>>>
>>> *****
>>> I am afraid you are totally correct. There is only one way to stop this
>>> sort of extortion, and that is to boycott the companies who choose to
>>> do business this way.
>
>> Well don't buy ANY of the import hybrids then. Those ALL use multiple
>> controller computers in them.
>
>> Steve W.
>
> I dont doubt that either. It is necessary technically to have multiple
> controllers
> on such a system, BUT it is not necessary to make electronics which are
> intended to be failure prone and unserviceable by anyone but a dealership.
>
> In fact, if that could be proven to be true, it might be getting close to
> some
> of the deadly sins in restraint of trade legislation.