How good is the Civic Si in snow?

In article <w4N0i.11450$s7.10688@trndny05>,
"alfred" > wrote:

> Also I never drove a manual trans in the snow. I had a 1981 VW Scirocco and
> a 1990 Miata and both had 5 speed manuals, but never drove either in the
> snow. I was wondering if driving a manual trans in the snow is any
> different?

A manual allows you to rock the car when stuck, but I find the control
of power much better with an auto.
I have slightly more yrs experience with a stick shift, but I'll take an
auto for snow driving because I can apply the power very gently.
Be sure to get ABS brakes.

Just Facts wrote:

> In article <w4N0i.11450$s7.10688@trndny05>,
> "alfred" > wrote:
>
>> Also I never drove a manual trans in the snow. I had a 1981 VW Scirocco
>> and a 1990 Miata and both had 5 speed manuals, but never drove either in
>> the snow. I was wondering if driving a manual trans in the snow is any
>> different?
>
> A manual allows you to rock the car when stuck, but I find the control
> of power much better with an auto.
> I have slightly more yrs experience with a stick shift, but I'll take an
> auto for snow driving because I can apply the power very gently.
> Be sure to get ABS brakes.

You can apply the power even more gently with a stick, once you are
proficient with it.

I have driven auto's all my life. The 06 Si is my first stick, and after
one winter, I much prefer it to an auto.

Put it in second, slowly let out the clutch, apply gas as needed, and roll
right out.

> You can apply the power even more gently with a stick, once you are
> proficient with it.
>
> I have driven auto's all my life. The 06 Si is my first stick, and after
> one winter, I much prefer it to an auto.
>
> Put it in second, slowly let out the clutch, apply gas as needed, and roll
> right out.
>

So the fact that a manual trans rolls back is a benefit in getting out of
snow? In New England where I am, we get our usual 6-8 inch snow storms,
sometimes less sometimes a little more. Mostly we get frigid weather like
0-20 degrees F and freezing rain and ice storms. I know the car has ABS and
traction control which will help in getting out of snow on a straight line
when going from a stop I would think.

If I decided to get snow tires, could I get 215/60HR 17's and still be okay
even though the car comes with 215/45VR 17's? I dont think the 60HR would
hit the wheel well or throw things off that much do you? That way I can just
keep the same wheels.

My 1990 Miata was driven once in icy weather now that I remember and at the
time I was a novice with manuals. I think there may have been 4" on the
ground and I got stuck getting out of my driveway so I had to leave the car
home and get a ride from my father. I learned to drive a stick in 1990, so
the 1981 VW was bought after that and it was used.

Also does anyone know what power shifting means? I heard about this when
driving a shift, what about double clutching? I would like to learn more
about driving a stick, because even now at 41 I am still a novice not being
exposed to manuals that much.

Thanks,
Al

On Sat, 12 May 2007 03:15:56 GMT, "alfred" > wrote:

>
>> You can apply the power even more gently with a stick, once you are
>> proficient with it.
>>
>> I have driven auto's all my life. The 06 Si is my first stick, and after
>> one winter, I much prefer it to an auto.
>>
>> Put it in second, slowly let out the clutch, apply gas as needed, and roll
>> right out.
>>
>
>So the fact that a manual trans rolls back is a benefit in getting out of
>snow? In New England where I am, we get our usual 6-8 inch snow storms,
>sometimes less sometimes a little more. Mostly we get frigid weather like
>0-20 degrees F and freezing rain and ice storms. I know the car has ABS and
>traction control which will help in getting out of snow on a straight line
>when going from a stop I would think.

You can rock the car by shifting between 2nd and reverse. It's in the
manual or at least it used to be.

You aren't going to be driving on unplowed roads with 6-8" of snow of
them. Most cars are going to get stuck in that. If they are doing a
half-way decent job of plowing the roads, you should be OK.


>If I decided to get snow tires, could I get 215/60HR 17's and still be okay
>even though the car comes with 215/45VR 17's? I dont think the 60HR would
>hit the wheel well or throw things off that much do you? That way I can just
>keep the same wheels.

You should contact the Tire Rack - they can give you solid advice. I
think a -1 conversion would be better.

>My 1990 Miata was driven once in icy weather now that I remember and at the
>time I was a novice with manuals. I think there may have been 4" on the
>ground and I got stuck getting out of my driveway so I had to leave the car
>home and get a ride from my father. I learned to drive a stick in 1990, so
>the 1981 VW was bought after that and it was used.

I suspect the tires were more of a factor than the transmission.

>
>Also does anyone know what power shifting means? I heard about this when
>driving a shift, what about double clutching? I would like to learn more
>about driving a stick, because even now at 41 I am still a novice not being
>exposed to manuals that much.

Power shifting means not lifting off the throttle when you shift. Now
that you know what it is, forget about it.

Double clutching is a better way of downshifting than the method you
are using. Shift into neutral, let out the clutch, rev the engine a
little higher than you expect it to be in the lower gear, put in the
clutch, shift into the lower gear, release the clutch as you take up
power with the throttle. This is smoother and less stress on the
transmission. It sounds cumbersome and clumsy, but with practice it
can be done very quickly and smoothly. When you have that mastered,
we can tell you about heel-and-toe braking.

> Double clutching is a better way of downshifting than the method you
> are using. Shift into neutral, let out the clutch, rev the engine a
> little higher than you expect it to be in the lower gear, put in the
> clutch, shift into the lower gear, release the clutch as you take up
> power with the throttle. This is smoother and less stress on the
> transmission. It sounds cumbersome and clumsy, but with practice it
> can be done very quickly and smoothly. When you have that mastered,
> we can tell you about heel-and-toe braking.
>

Ok thanks for the advise and information. I'll keep that in mind. I know the
basics of shifting but not all the special techniques. I remember a few
times on my miata i made the mistake of downshifting from 5 to 2 instead of
5 to 4 because I brought the shifter down and to the left one notch too
many.

On Mon, 14 May 2007 00:31:06 GMT, "alfred" > wrote:

>
>> Double clutching is a better way of downshifting than the method you
>> are using. Shift into neutral, let out the clutch, rev the engine a
>> little higher than you expect it to be in the lower gear, put in the
>> clutch, shift into the lower gear, release the clutch as you take up
>> power with the throttle. This is smoother and less stress on the
>> transmission. It sounds cumbersome and clumsy, but with practice it
>> can be done very quickly and smoothly. When you have that mastered,
>> we can tell you about heel-and-toe braking.
>>
>
>Ok thanks for the advise and information. I'll keep that in mind. I know the
>basics of shifting but not all the special techniques. I remember a few
>times on my miata i made the mistake of downshifting from 5 to 2 instead of
>5 to 4 because I brought the shifter down and to the left one notch too
>many.

Ouch. Try not to do that. It can be hard on the hood when pieces of
the engine hit it.

On May 10, 6:33 pm, "alfred" > wrote:
> > It has limited slip, doesn't it?
> > I have a 92 Civic. with original trans and original all season tires,
> > it sucked bad in snow (in CT). Sith snow tires, marginal improvement.
> > With Japanese junkyard limited slip trans and snow tires, i
> > (literally!) drive circles around the stuck SUVs in the parking lot.
> > Ground clearance vs depth of snow is an issue, but in the semi-
> > civilized land of CT, at least for the last few years, it's only been
> > a mild issue, like once a winter (not including when the car is walled
> > in 3 feet of snow by the plows when parked on the street).
>
> Thanks for all your repsonses everyone. I agree that saving 3.00 for a tank
> and loosing performance would be silly. I was just curious. I know the 07
> Si's have traction control and limited slip and ABS/EBD/VSA so I am sure it
> will be fine. I just never drove a car with the lower profile 215/45VR 17's
> before and I just wanted to make sure that wouldnt cause a problem.
>
> Also I never drove a manual trans in the snow. I had a 1981 VW Scirocco and
> a 1990 Miata and both had 5 speed manuals, but never drove either in the
> snow. I was wondering if driving a manual trans in the snow is any
> different?
>
> Thanks,
> Al

I like it. My aforementioned 92 civic has antilock brakes, and they
get confused in loose snow and fight any effort to slow the car.
Keeping it in first gear allows the engine to slow the car, which
proves that the antilock brakes are confused. I suppose with a good
automatic, you could do similar, but I don't know how much engine
braking at low speeds you can do with the torque converter.

On May 11, 8:55 am, Joe LaVigne > wrote:

> Put it in second, slowly let out the clutch, apply gas as needed, and roll
> right out.

Excellent point; starting in second with gentle clutch for minimal
force applied to the snow.

On May 11, 11:15 pm, "alfred" > wrote:

> So the fact that a manual trans rolls back is a benefit in getting out of
> snow? In New England where I am, we get our usual 6-8 inch snow storms,
> sometimes less sometimes a little more. Mostly we get frigid weather like
> 0-20 degrees F and freezing rain and ice storms. I know the car has ABS and
> traction control which will help in getting out of snow on a straight line
> when going from a stop I would think.

I haven't had much experiece myself with traction control, but being a
passenger in an Odyssey with it, it sure seems like a miracle. As I
said before, I got sour on the ABS in the snow, though.

>
> If I decided to get snow tires, could I get 215/60HR 17's and still be okay
> even though the car comes with 215/45VR 17's? I dont think the 60HR would
> hit the wheel well or throw things off that much do you? That way I can just
> keep the same wheels.

Sometimes, you actually do have to be careful; my long lamented
Plymouth Sapporo had to take snow tires one step less wide than the
regular tires, because there was just that much more sticking out from
the tread that it would contact things. At least, that's what the
manual said. Might not have applied to all snow tires brands, of
course. If you are going to get snow tires, might as well get a set of
rims to mount them on; otherwise you'll be spending cash and time
having the tires swapped on the rims twice a year.

On 14 May 2007 11:44:49 -0700, z > wrote:

>On May 10, 6:33 pm, "alfred" > wrote:
>> > It has limited slip, doesn't it?
>> > I have a 92 Civic. with original trans and original all season tires,
>> > it sucked bad in snow (in CT). Sith snow tires, marginal improvement.
>> > With Japanese junkyard limited slip trans and snow tires, i
>> > (literally!) drive circles around the stuck SUVs in the parking lot.
>> > Ground clearance vs depth of snow is an issue, but in the semi-
>> > civilized land of CT, at least for the last few years, it's only been
>> > a mild issue, like once a winter (not including when the car is walled
>> > in 3 feet of snow by the plows when parked on the street).
>>
>> Thanks for all your repsonses everyone. I agree that saving 3.00 for a tank
>> and loosing performance would be silly. I was just curious. I know the 07
>> Si's have traction control and limited slip and ABS/EBD/VSA so I am sure it
>> will be fine. I just never drove a car with the lower profile 215/45VR 17's
>> before and I just wanted to make sure that wouldnt cause a problem.
>>
>> Also I never drove a manual trans in the snow. I had a 1981 VW Scirocco and
>> a 1990 Miata and both had 5 speed manuals, but never drove either in the
>> snow. I was wondering if driving a manual trans in the snow is any
>> different?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Al
>
>I like it. My aforementioned 92 civic has antilock brakes, and they
>get confused in loose snow and fight any effort to slow the car.
>Keeping it in first gear allows the engine to slow the car, which
>proves that the antilock brakes are confused. I suppose with a good
>automatic, you could do similar, but I don't know how much engine
>braking at low speeds you can do with the torque converter.

I remember R&T did a test on cars with ALB engaged and disengaged some
years ago. Disabling the ALB generally produced longer stopping and
less control... until they got to glare ice. They really had a slick
track because without ALB it took about 300 feet to stop from 30mph
(as best as I can recall.) With the ALB engaged, the stopping
distance went to 600 feet.