Gasoline odor

I don't drive my Scirocco in the winter, so it mostly sits for several
months. I go out and start it occasionally, run it until it's at normal
temperature, and shut it down.

I started driving it occasionally a couple of months back and then full time
a few weeks ago. It was then that I noticed the gas mileage seems to have
taken a big drop. From about 25mpg last year to about 18mpg now. This,
sometimes, accompanied by the odor of gasoline. I assumed a leak and
searched for it with no success. Then a few days ago my son and I went to
dinner and he followed me in his truck. He reported that he got a pretty
strong odor of gasoline from my exhaust. I checked the tail pipes and
they're black. My recollection is that the should be grey unless one is
either burning oil or not fully burning gasoline.

I'm now thinking a bad sensor (which one?) causing a whacked fuel mix, a bad
injector, or... what?

Ideas please?

- Bill
________________
Nothing haunts us like the things we didn't say.

On 06/05/13 01:37 PM, Bill Leary wrote:
> I don't drive my Scirocco in the winter, so it mostly sits for several
> months. I go out and start it occasionally, run it until it's at
> normal temperature, and shut it down.
>
> I started driving it occasionally a couple of months back and then
> full time a few weeks ago. It was then that I noticed the gas mileage
> seems to have taken a big drop. From about 25mpg last year to about
> 18mpg now. This, sometimes, accompanied by the odor of gasoline. I
> assumed a leak and searched for it with no success. Then a few days
> ago my son and I went to dinner and he followed me in his truck. He
> reported that he got a pretty strong odor of gasoline from my
> exhaust. I checked the tail pipes and they're black. My recollection
> is that the should be grey unless one is either burning oil or not
> fully burning gasoline.
>
> I'm now thinking a bad sensor (which one?) causing a whacked fuel mix,
> a bad injector, or... what?
>
> Ideas please?
>
> - Bill
> ________________
> Nothing haunts us like the things we didn't say.
Lamda sensor?

Without a fault readout as a start point it's guesswork.

"Ted Neffer" wrote in message
o.uk...
> On 06/05/13 01:37 PM, Bill Leary wrote:
>> I don't drive my Scirocco in the winter, so it mostly sits for several
>> ((..omitted..))
>> Ideas please?
>
> Lamda sensor?
>
> Without a fault readout as a start point it's guesswork.

I guess I'm about to have a "learn something new every day" experience.

"...fault readout..." ?

- Bill

"Bill Leary" wrote in message
...

"Ted Neffer" wrote in message
o.uk...
> On 06/05/13 01:37 PM, Bill Leary wrote:
>> I don't drive my Scirocco in the winter, so it mostly sits for several
>> ((..omitted..))
>> Ideas please?
>
> Lamda sensor?
>
> Without a fault readout as a start point it's guesswork.

I guess I'm about to have a "learn something new every day" experience.

"...fault readout..." ?

- Bill

Scan test results

"LG" wrote in message ...
> "Bill Leary" wrote in message
> ...
>> "Ted Neffer" wrote in message
>> o.uk...
>>> On 06/05/13 01:37 PM, Bill Leary wrote:
>>>> I don't drive my Scirocco in the winter, so it mostly sits for several
>>>> ((..omitted..))
>>>> Ideas please?
>>>
>>> Lamda sensor?
>>>
>>> Without a fault readout as a start point it's guesswork.
>>
>> I guess I'm about to have a "learn something new every day" experience.
>>
>> "...fault readout..." ?
>
> Scan test results

Scanned with what? Does my '87 16V Scirocco have a diagnostics connector?

- Bill

On 5/6/2013 8:37 AM, Bill Leary wrote:
> I don't drive my Scirocco in the winter

I searched your post for hours and hours and could not see what year
your car is. Without full information any answer is really just a WAG.

--
I'm never going to grow up.

On 5/7/2013 12:16 AM, Bill Leary wrote:
> Scanned with what? Does my '87 16V Scirocco have a diagnostics connector?
>
> - Bill

See, that's what happens when you don't give good information!

Now, when hot is it hard to start? Seem like it is flooded? If so, you
likely have a dripping/leaking injector (check the 'fifth' or cold start
injector as it is usually the one that causes the problems.)

And no, your car doesn't really have a diagnostics connector.

--
I'm never going to grow up.

"PeterD" wrote in message ...
> On 5/7/2013 12:16 AM, Bill Leary wrote:
>> Scanned with what? Does my '87 16V Scirocco have a diagnostics
>> connector?
>
> See, that's what happens when you don't give good information!
>
> Now, when hot is it hard to start?

Easier, actually.

> Seem like it is flooded?

No. But see note below.

> If so, you likely have a dripping/leaking injector (check the
> 'fifth' or cold start injector as it is usually the one that
> causes the problems.)

Yeah, I was thinking of replacing that one. I have another, identical, car
to get parts from.

> And no, your car doesn't really have a diagnostics connector.

I didn't think so.

The "But see note below." is this:

When the engine is cold, it takes ten to fifteen seconds to start it. It'll
fire on the first turn, the has to crank a bit, then starts. And runs fine.

And if I've driven the car the day before, that's it. It runs fine. Shut
if off and start it warm and it starts right up.

But, if it hasn't been driven for a couple of days, when the temperature
gauge rise, the car starts to have power loss. In thirty seconds or so,
there isn't enough power to make the car move. After this, it's acting
exactly as if it's flooding. Idles around 600 RPM and very roughly. This
continues for several minutes until the temperature gets to just short of
normal. Then the idle jumps up to normal and it's running smoothly. And
works fine the rest of the day, and every day until it's parked for a couple
of days and we do it all again.

And let me toss in another funny thing. I knew there was a problem ONLY
because (1) the gas mileage dropped from 25 to 18MPG and (2) I can vaguely
smell gas sometimes. Given what my son had to say about fuel odor in the
exhaust, I'm guessing that I can smell gas "sometimes" depending on which
way the breeze is blowing. I've been checking the car with a walk around
since this came to light and from at least one direction I can always smell
gas after its warmed up and I've shut it down.

Oh, and one more funny thing. It doesn't seem to happen at idle. If I
start the car and leave it running until it's up to normal running
temperature, no gas odor. If I kick it up to 3,000 RPM for a minute or two,
THEN I can smell gas again.

I'm thinking it's a screwed up injector or some sensor that's causing the
computer to open one or more injectors (number 5?) more often than it should
and it dumping gas straight through the engine.

Your (or anyone else's) thoughts would be appreciated.

- Bill

In article >,
says...
>
> "PeterD" wrote in message ...
> > On 5/7/2013 12:16 AM, Bill Leary wrote:
> >> Scanned with what? Does my '87 16V Scirocco have a diagnostics
> >> connector?
> >
> > See, that's what happens when you don't give good information!
> >
> > Now, when hot is it hard to start?
>
> Easier, actually.
>
> > Seem like it is flooded?
>
> No. But see note below.
>
> > If so, you likely have a dripping/leaking injector (check the
> > 'fifth' or cold start injector as it is usually the one that
> > causes the problems.)
>
> Yeah, I was thinking of replacing that one. I have another, identical, car
> to get parts from.
>
> > And no, your car doesn't really have a diagnostics connector.
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> The "But see note below." is this:
>
> When the engine is cold, it takes ten to fifteen seconds to start it. It'll
> fire on the first turn, the has to crank a bit, then starts. And runs fine.
>
> And if I've driven the car the day before, that's it. It runs fine. Shut
> if off and start it warm and it starts right up.
>
> But, if it hasn't been driven for a couple of days, when the temperature
> gauge rise, the car starts to have power loss. In thirty seconds or so,
> there isn't enough power to make the car move. After this, it's acting
> exactly as if it's flooding. Idles around 600 RPM and very roughly. This
> continues for several minutes until the temperature gets to just short of
> normal. Then the idle jumps up to normal and it's running smoothly. And
> works fine the rest of the day, and every day until it's parked for a couple
> of days and we do it all again.
>
> And let me toss in another funny thing. I knew there was a problem ONLY
> because (1) the gas mileage dropped from 25 to 18MPG and (2) I can vaguely
> smell gas sometimes. Given what my son had to say about fuel odor in the
> exhaust, I'm guessing that I can smell gas "sometimes" depending on which
> way the breeze is blowing. I've been checking the car with a walk around
> since this came to light and from at least one direction I can always smell
> gas after its warmed up and I've shut it down.
>
> Oh, and one more funny thing. It doesn't seem to happen at idle. If I
> start the car and leave it running until it's up to normal running
> temperature, no gas odor. If I kick it up to 3,000 RPM for a minute or two,
> THEN I can smell gas again.
>
> I'm thinking it's a screwed up injector or some sensor that's causing the
> computer to open one or more injectors (number 5?) more often than it should
> and it dumping gas straight through the engine.
>
> Your (or anyone else's) thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> - Bill

I am not familiar with the details of the car, but some of the symptoms
you describe ring a bell: My volvo xc70 had individual coils on each
pot. And then two coils failed ... ran like a tractor, no power, petrol
practically dripping out of the exhaust (in fact it flooded the cat and
the rear lambda sensor to the point where the engine light came on).

Not sure if the Scirocco uses that kind of tech. (certainly the old ones
didn't, when I was still living in Germany 30+ years ago, it was just a
slightly souped up Golf at that time).

"Peter Huebner" wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
>> ((..much omitted..))
>
>I am not familiar with the details of the car, but some of the symptoms
> you describe ring a bell: My volvo xc70 had individual coils on each
> pot. And then two coils failed ... ran like a tractor, no power, petrol
> practically dripping out of the exhaust (in fact it flooded the cat and
> the rear lambda sensor to the point where the engine light came on).
>
> Not sure if the Scirocco uses that kind of tech. (certainly the old ones
> didn't, when I was still living in Germany 30+ years ago, it was just a
> slightly souped up Golf at that time).

Some later VW's have used "coil packs," basically a coil-per-cylinder, but
not back in '87.

I wondered about ignition, but the car runs fine. The only symptoms (other
than the, possibly unrelated, problem when it's not driven for a couple of
days) are reduced gas mileage (from 25 to 18) and the smell of gasoline in
the exhaust.

I suppose I'll have to let the shop work on it, but this has the feel of
something that's going to be expensive to diagnose. I guess I hoping
someone would say "Oh yeah! That happened to me. Replace the yaba-daba and
you'll be fine."

Oh, well. If I wanted something economical I wouldn't be driving a 26 year
old car.

- Bill