BMW's nothing but problems??? Really???

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:39:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Dean Dark > wrote:
>> IMHFO, anything with a claim to performance, driveability and
>> 'sportiness' that presents a torque converter as part of the package
>> deserves all the contempt that gets heaped upon it. And so do the
>> people who defend them. They are simply not serious drivers.
>
>That would include dragsters? ;-)

No. The list of characteristics are ands, not ors. Torque converters
are fine in dragsters, monster trucks and land yachts. IMHFO, of
course. But I'm sure you knew that...
--
Dan.

In article >,
Dean Dark > wrote:
> >> IMHFO, anything with a claim to performance, driveability and
> >> 'sportiness' that presents a torque converter as part of the package
> >> deserves all the contempt that gets heaped upon it. And so do the
> >> people who defend them. They are simply not serious drivers.
> >
> >That would include dragsters? ;-)

> No. The list of characteristics are ands, not ors. Torque converters
> are fine in dragsters, monster trucks and land yachts. IMHFO, of
> course. But I'm sure you knew that...

Thing is that modern epicyclic autos lock up the TC after every change, so
it effects performance and economy far less than of old. Which means the
advantage of an 'SMG' type transmission is somewhat eroded for a sporty
car with an auto function. I also wonder about the life of what is
essentially a synchromesh box having those gearchanges hammered through -
since this seems to be the appeal of them.

Now if they made a conventional manual with manual clutch which could also
have an auto mode for boring heavy traffic...

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:26:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> wrote:
>
>Thing is that modern epicyclic autos lock up the TC after every change, so
>it effects performance and economy far less than of old.

Sure, but locking the TC is a crude and very poor substitute for the
variety of ways I can choose for the amount, timing and graduation of
torque applied to the drive train with a conventional clutch.

For me, it's about getting pleasure from driving, particularly low
cost forms of motor sport. Going further in that direction, the
satisfaction of using a dog-engagement, straight-cut gearbox is as
different from a synchromesh gearbox as *that* is from a TC/epicyclic
combo.

That's not to say that I want to commute around town in a dog 'box
car, though.

>...Which means the
>advantage of an 'SMG' type transmission is somewhat eroded for a sporty
>car with an auto function. I also wonder about the life of what is
>essentially a synchromesh box having those gearchanges hammered through -
>since this seems to be the appeal of them.

I think I'd tend to trust the engineering. Sequential gearboxes have
been around for donkey's years.

>Now if they made a conventional manual with manual clutch which could also
>have an auto mode for boring heavy traffic...

Personally, I always wondered why no-one ever put a friction clutch in
front of an epicyclic gearbox.
--
Dan.

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Jack Dotson > wrote:
>> You know I haven't seen it mentioned, but I read that some of the
>> manuals for BMW's were actually made by General Motors. Anyone else
>> read or hear about this? On the other hand, the Auto's are made by
>> BMW. Probably explains whey the auto is so good.
>
> BMW - at least in recent years - make neither autos or manuals. They're
> both bought in. And the autos were sometimes from GM in the US although ZF
> elsewhere. Dunno why, given the GM autos for some time were 4, rather than
> 5 speed. Something to do with local content? - things like the batteries
> for US cars were also US sourced.
>
>> All you manual guys enjoy your GM tranny's. No wonder your not
>> overwhelmed with the way they shift. You can get the same performance
>> from a Chevy Cobalt. Bwaahhaahaa!
>
>> I wouldn't dare own a car with a crappy old GM transmission.
>
> GM at one time made the best autos in the world. Rolls Royce once used
> them - with cost not an issue. But GM sort of lost the plot...;-)
>
> They also once made very fine manuals. I well remember a RWD Vauxhall I
> owned with a four speed gearbox which was as fast and light as any I've
> driven.
>
> But GM sort of lost the plot...;-)
>
>> Real BMW drivers, drive real BMW's with real BMW transmissions. :-)
>
> No such thing.
>
> --
> *A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.*
>
> Dave Plowman London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave, I know. I had was just stirring the pot again. Throwing some red
meat to all the manual shift chest pounders. ;-)

"admin" > wrote in message
...
> Jack Dotson wrote:
>
>
> BMW doesn't manufacture ANY transmissions - in the cars or in the REAL
> BMW's (that have 2 wheels.)
>

Who makes the BMW motorcycle transmissions?

Tom K.

"Tom K." > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "admin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jack Dotson wrote:
>>
>>
>> BMW doesn't manufacture ANY transmissions - in the cars or in the REAL
>> BMW's (that have 2 wheels.)
>>
>
> Who makes the BMW motorcycle transmissions?
>
> Tom K.
>

Hey Tom, please be careful how you cut and paste. I didn't say this.

Dean Dark wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:26:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> > wrote:
>
>> Thing is that modern epicyclic autos lock up the TC after every
>> change, so it effects performance and economy far less than of old.
>
> Sure, but locking the TC is a crude and very poor substitute for the
> variety of ways I can choose for the amount, timing and graduation of
> torque applied to the drive train with a conventional clutch.

Driven one of the recent adaptive autos?

....with Steptronic?

....with ALPINA Switchtronic?

Except for drag strip launches and doing donuts there is no advantage in
a manual syncro 'box and clutch and lots of disadvantages

Even in fully auto adaptive mode these 'boxes have an almost spookily
prescient ability to be in the right gear and never, ever put shifts in
potentialy embarrassing places.

Steptronic adds instant and unmuffable sanity checked changes and with
Swichtronic your hands don't even have to leave the wheel...





A

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:19:28 +0000, Alistair J Murray
> wrote:

>Dean Dark wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:26:32 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Thing is that modern epicyclic autos lock up the TC after every
>>> change, so it effects performance and economy far less than of old.
>>
>> Sure, but locking the TC is a crude and very poor substitute for the
>> variety of ways I can choose for the amount, timing and graduation of
>> torque applied to the drive train with a conventional clutch.
>
>Driven one of the recent adaptive autos?
>
>...with Steptronic?
>
>...with ALPINA Switchtronic?

I wasn't aware that either of those allowed one to control "the
amount, timing and graduation of torque applied to the drive train."
In other words, complete control of engine speed and timing and the
"bite" of the clutch. You live and learn, I guess.
--
Dan.

"Jack Dotson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom K." > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "admin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Jack Dotson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> BMW doesn't manufacture ANY transmissions - in the cars or in the REAL
>>> BMW's (that have 2 wheels.)
>>>
>>
>> Who makes the BMW motorcycle transmissions?
>>
>> Tom K.
>>
>
> Hey Tom, please be careful how you cut and paste. I didn't say this.
>
Sorry, Jack. I thought it was clear I was replying to "admin", but I should
have cut your name as well to avoid any confusion.

Tom K.

Dean Dark wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:19:28 +0000, Alistair J Murray
> > wrote:

[...]

>> Driven one of the recent adaptive autos?
>>
>> ...with Steptronic?
>>
>> ...with ALPINA Switchtronic?
>
> I wasn't aware that either of those allowed one to control "the
> amount, timing and graduation of torque applied to the drive train."

They give you complete control of what arrives at the wheels, which is
really all that matters...




A