BMW's nothing but problems??? Really???

Hello,

Many of my friends have been giving me advice of DONT buy a BMW they
are a money pit car, $900 alternators, etc... nothing but problems.

I thought the best people to ask are actual BMW owners. Would you do it
again?

I love the way they look, the cars I've test drove felt like great
engineering went into them. I've heard things such as real men own
only 5 series and up? What's the deal with that?

I need help in deciding whether to buy a BMW and if so, which model
convertible would be the most reliable with the least maintenance
costs? I would prefer something that's a pretty quick and fun to drive
in the hills and an automatic (M3 or M5?). Pro's and con's of going
with an automatic in a BMW? I personally prefer a stick however,
traffic has gotten so bad it's a drag constantly going on and off the
clutch.

Since I've never owned a BMW all advice on years and models to avoid
and the best years/models, tips etc. would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

You'll get lots of opinions on this, even from BMW owners. Keep in mind
that a lot of folks here are under warranty or contract so they don't
pay out of pocket for every repair. BMWs are expensive to maintain as
they age, especially if you're paying Hans at the dealer $90/hr to work
on it and full markup on parts. If you can handle some of it yourself
it's not so bad. BMWs are fairly reliable, but not Japanese reliable.
But then they don't drive or look like Japanese cars either. It's a
trade off. Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)

szguitar wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Many of my friends have been giving me advice of DONT buy a BMW they
> are a money pit car, $900 alternators, etc... nothing but problems.
>
> I thought the best people to ask are actual BMW owners. Would you do it
> again?
>
> I love the way they look, the cars I've test drove felt like great
> engineering went into them. I've heard things such as real men own
> only 5 series and up? What's the deal with that?
>
> I need help in deciding whether to buy a BMW and if so, which model
> convertible would be the most reliable with the least maintenance
> costs? I would prefer something that's a pretty quick and fun to drive
> in the hills and an automatic (M3 or M5?). Pro's and con's of going
> with an automatic in a BMW? I personally prefer a stick however,
> traffic has gotten so bad it's a drag constantly going on and off the
> clutch.
>
> Since I've never owned a BMW all advice on years and models to avoid
> and the best years/models, tips etc. would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>

"JimV" > wrote in message
. ..
> You'll get lots of opinions on this, even from BMW owners. Keep in mind
> that a lot of folks here are under warranty or contract so they don't pay
> out of pocket for every repair. BMWs are expensive to maintain as they
> age, especially if you're paying Hans at the dealer $90/hr to work on it
> and full markup on parts. If you can handle some of it yourself it's not
> so bad. BMWs are fairly reliable, but not Japanese reliable. But then they
> don't drive or look like Japanese cars either. It's a


> trade off. Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)

The ones who can afford them do, the ones who can't act like they wouldn't
have it any other way. :-)


>
> szguitar wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Many of my friends have been giving me advice of DONT buy a BMW they
>> are a money pit car, $900 alternators, etc... nothing but problems.
>>
>> I thought the best people to ask are actual BMW owners. Would you do it
>> again?
>>
>> I love the way they look, the cars I've test drove felt like great
>> engineering went into them. I've heard things such as real men own
>> only 5 series and up? What's the deal with that?
>>
>> I need help in deciding whether to buy a BMW and if so, which model
>> convertible would be the most reliable with the least maintenance
>> costs? I would prefer something that's a pretty quick and fun to drive
>> in the hills and an automatic (M3 or M5?). Pro's and con's of going
>> with an automatic in a BMW? I personally prefer a stick however,
>> traffic has gotten so bad it's a drag constantly going on and off the
>> clutch.
>>
>> Since I've never owned a BMW all advice on years and models to avoid
>> and the best years/models, tips etc. would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan
>>

Jack Dotson wrote:
> "JimV" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>You'll get lots of opinions on this, even from BMW owners. Keep in mind
>>that a lot of folks here are under warranty or contract so they don't pay
>>out of pocket for every repair. BMWs are expensive to maintain as they
>>age, especially if you're paying Hans at the dealer $90/hr to work on it
>>and full markup on parts. If you can handle some of it yourself it's not
>>so bad. BMWs are fairly reliable, but not Japanese reliable. But then they
>>don't drive or look like Japanese cars either. It's a
>
>
>
>>trade off. Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)
>
>
> The ones who can afford them do, the ones who can't act like they wouldn't
> have it any other way. :-)
>
>

That's silly, Jack. The automatic option does not increase the price of
the car very much at all. Most manual transmission owners have it
because the *prefer* to drive one. It's not a matter of economics...

--
-Fred W

"Fred W" > wrote in message
...
> Jack Dotson wrote:
>> "JimV" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>You'll get lots of opinions on this, even from BMW owners. Keep in mind
>>>that a lot of folks here are under warranty or contract so they don't pay
>>>out of pocket for every repair. BMWs are expensive to maintain as they
>>>age, especially if you're paying Hans at the dealer $90/hr to work on it
>>>and full markup on parts. If you can handle some of it yourself it's not
>>>so bad. BMWs are fairly reliable, but not Japanese reliable. But then
>>>they don't drive or look like Japanese cars either. It's a
>>
>>
>>
>>>trade off. Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)
>>
>>
>> The ones who can afford them do, the ones who can't act like they
>> wouldn't have it any other way. :-)
>>
>
> That's silly, Jack. The automatic option does not increase the price of
> the car very much at all. Most manual transmission owners have it because
> the *prefer* to drive one. It's not a matter of economics...
>
> --
> -Fred W

It was a joke dude. Think I was going to let him off with saying Real BMW
owners don't drive automatics?

"Jack Dotson" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> It was a joke dude. Think I was going to let him off with saying Real BMW
> owners don't drive automatics?
>

One of the most impressive things I noticed when I first bought a BMW ('01
750iL) was the precision of the automatic shifts. It actually sounds and
feels like a manual, but isn't. Since then, we've had several BMW's, a '01
330ci, an X5 and currently a '06 750iL and a '06 M5. All had the superb
Steptronic transmission except the M5 that has the SMG.

Eisboch

Jack Dotson wrote:
> "Fred W" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Jack Dotson wrote:
>>
>>>"JimV" > wrote in message
om...
>>>
>>>
>>>>You'll get lots of opinions on this, even from BMW owners. Keep in mind
>>>>that a lot of folks here are under warranty or contract so they don't pay
>>>>out of pocket for every repair. BMWs are expensive to maintain as they
>>>>age, especially if you're paying Hans at the dealer $90/hr to work on it
>>>>and full markup on parts. If you can handle some of it yourself it's not
>>>>so bad. BMWs are fairly reliable, but not Japanese reliable. But then
>>>>they don't drive or look like Japanese cars either. It's a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>trade off. Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>The ones who can afford them do, the ones who can't act like they
>>>wouldn't have it any other way. :-)
>>>
>>
>>That's silly, Jack. The automatic option does not increase the price of
>>the car very much at all. Most manual transmission owners have it because
>>the *prefer* to drive one. It's not a matter of economics...
>>
>>--
>>-Fred W
>
>
> It was a joke dude. Think I was going to let him off with saying Real BMW
> owners don't drive automatics?
>
>

Oh, sorry. I missed the sarcasm... ;-)

--
-Fred W

In article >,
Fred W > wrote:
> > The ones who can afford them do, the ones who can't act like they
> > wouldn't have it any other way. :-)

> That's silly, Jack. The automatic option does not increase the price of
> the car very much at all. Most manual transmission owners have it
> because the *prefer* to drive one. It's not a matter of economics...

In the UK, any manual BMW other than the very small ones would fetch very
much less on re-sale. Perhaps it's because traffic densities are higher
here?

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

> Avoid the first year of a new model. That's about it.
People say this, but, my E91 3 series is in the first year of the
model, is just over 2 months old with 2700 miles and I have not had to
go back to the dealer for any post-production fixes (out of BMW's brand
new factory). It is so far faultless. The only thing I can say about
the first year model is that not all equipment on the options list is
available yet, but everything I want is so no problem. OK it's early
days and 1 car is not much of a sample, what is the big deal about
first year of model cars?

>Once BMW fixes its reliability issues,
Really! OK Lexus wins on the reliability by a bit, but its not like
BMW's are "lemons"

> and drives down its total ownership costs to the level of a Lexus, I'll be a buyer.
Wierd, in the UK any Lexus is more expensive to buy and run than a
competing BMW (though better equipped as standard), partly because a
diesel has only just become available for the first time and only on
the IS. Even with petrol/gas engines, Lexus are slow and thirsty
compared to a BMW and servicing/parts is not cheaper.

Given the long service intervals on the new cars I worked out that the
servicing is going to cost no more than Toyota/Honda

>In the UK, any manual BMW other than the very small ones would fetch very
>much less on re-sale. Perhaps it's because traffic densities are higher
>here?
Absolutely true.... for any Mercedes. A Mercedes without an auto box
is practically unsellable. On the 3 series manual boxes massively out
number auto boxes in the market. 5 series and up and it's all change
with the auto box being essential for re-sale.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Fred W > wrote:
>
>>>The ones who can afford them do, the ones who can't act like they
>>>wouldn't have it any other way. :-)
>
>
>>That's silly, Jack. The automatic option does not increase the price of
>>the car very much at all. Most manual transmission owners have it
>>because the *prefer* to drive one. It's not a matter of economics...
>
>
> In the UK, any manual BMW other than the very small ones would fetch very
> much less on re-sale. Perhaps it's because traffic densities are higher
> here?
>

No, it's the same thing here, except that your resale vales seem even
more deflated than ours, so perhaps that is a bigger concern.

Are you saying that the differential in price at resale is greater
(either in actual money or as a percentage) than the cost difference
when new?

That would be interesting...


--
-Fred W