1989 Escort 1.9L- got spark - got gas - no start

Friend's daughter ran her 1989 Ford Escort 1.9L with oil barely showing
on the dipstick and an inch or two of coolant in the radiator. Engine
died while driving and she thought she ran out of gas. She may have. She
put gas in the tank but while the engine cranks, it won't start.

Engine has spark to the ends of all the plug wires. Plugs, wires, cap
and rotor were changed recently. There is a fine mist spraying from the
single injector (throttle body injection).

Timing belt was changed about 3 or 4 years ago and appears to be in good
shape.

I'm guessing bad compression caused by engine running hot and with
insufficient oil in the crankcase: rings shot and/or valves burned.

I plan on checking the compression first because that is easier than
checking to see if the timing belt slipped a cog.

I'm wondering what else might be causing a no start condition when both
spark and gas are present.

Foothill Fred > wrote:
>Friend's daughter ran her 1989 Ford Escort 1.9L with oil barely showing
>on the dipstick and an inch or two of coolant in the radiator. Engine
>died while driving and she thought she ran out of gas. She may have. She
>put gas in the tank but while the engine cranks, it won't start.

I fear that the REPLACE ENGINE light has come on now.

>Engine has spark to the ends of all the plug wires. Plugs, wires, cap
>and rotor were changed recently. There is a fine mist spraying from the
>single injector (throttle body injection).
>
>Timing belt was changed about 3 or 4 years ago and appears to be in good
>shape.
>
>I'm guessing bad compression caused by engine running hot and with
>insufficient oil in the crankcase: rings shot and/or valves burned.
>
>I plan on checking the compression first because that is easier than
>checking to see if the timing belt slipped a cog.
>
>I'm wondering what else might be causing a no start condition when both
>spark and gas are present.

FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
are you don't have the fourth. Pulling the valve covers will probably
tell you at least how far gone things are.

If it were me, I'd give up on it and drop a junkyard engine in there.
You don't know where a junkyard engine has been, but you DO know where
this one has been....
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Foothill Fred > wrote:
>> Friend's daughter ran her 1989 Ford Escort 1.9L with oil barely showing
>> on the dipstick and an inch or two of coolant in the radiator. Engine
>> died while driving and she thought she ran out of gas. She may have. She
>> put gas in the tank but while the engine cranks, it won't start.
>
> I fear that the REPLACE ENGINE light has come on now.

LOL!

Yep, my sediments exactly.

And for what that would cost in blood and treasure, it is probably time
for another car.

>
>> Engine has spark to the ends of all the plug wires. Plugs, wires, cap
>> and rotor were changed recently. There is a fine mist spraying from the
>> single injector (throttle body injection).
>>
>> Timing belt was changed about 3 or 4 years ago and appears to be in good
>> shape.
>>
>> I'm guessing bad compression caused by engine running hot and with
>> insufficient oil in the crankcase: rings shot and/or valves burned.
>>
>> I plan on checking the compression first because that is easier than
>> checking to see if the timing belt slipped a cog.
>>
>> I'm wondering what else might be causing a no start condition when both
>> spark and gas are present.
>
> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
> are you don't have the fourth.

How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
necessary for combustion to take place?

> Pulling the valve covers will probably
> tell you at least how far gone things are.

What would I be looking for under the valve cover?

> If it were me, I'd give up on it and drop a junkyard engine in there.
> You don't know where a junkyard engine has been, but you DO know where
> this one has been....
> --scott

Foothill Fred > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
>> are you don't have the fourth.
>
>How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
>necessary for combustion to take place?

That's part of timing. If the valves don't open or the valves don't
close, or the valves are now in fragments somewhere in the exhaust pipe,
you don't have proper valve timing.

>> Pulling the valve covers will probably
>> tell you at least how far gone things are.
>
>What would I be looking for under the valve cover?

That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Foothill Fred > wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
>>> are you don't have the fourth.
>> How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
>> necessary for combustion to take place?
>
> That's part of timing. If the valves don't open or the valves don't
> close, or the valves are now in fragments somewhere in the exhaust pipe,
> you don't have proper valve timing.
>
>>> Pulling the valve covers will probably
>>> tell you at least how far gone things are.
>> What would I be looking for under the valve cover?
>
> That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
> open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
> over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
> but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
> bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
> --scott

got it

thanks a million steve

I'll be looking at it tomorrow and I'll post what I learn

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Foothill Fred > wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
>>> are you don't have the fourth.
>> How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
>> necessary for combustion to take place?
>
> That's part of timing. If the valves don't open or the valves don't
> close, or the valves are now in fragments somewhere in the exhaust pipe,
> you don't have proper valve timing.
>
>>> Pulling the valve covers will probably
>>> tell you at least how far gone things are.
>> What would I be looking for under the valve cover?
>
> That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
> open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
> over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
> but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
> bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
> --scott

Well, the compression test results are in.

From left to right facing the engine the cylinders measured:

1) 110 lbs
2) 45 lbs
3) 5 lbs
4) 10 lbs

The plugs that came out of the low reading cylinders all had tiny water
droplets on them. Either a blown head gasket or a cracked head or block.

I'm guessing a cracked block.

Everything under the valve cover looked okay.

Foothill Fred wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Foothill Fred > wrote:
>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
>>>> are you don't have the fourth.
>>> How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
>>> necessary for combustion to take place?
>> That's part of timing. If the valves don't open or the valves don't
>> close, or the valves are now in fragments somewhere in the exhaust pipe,
>> you don't have proper valve timing.
>>
>>>> Pulling the valve covers will probably
>>>> tell you at least how far gone things are.
>>> What would I be looking for under the valve cover?
>> That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
>> open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
>> over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
>> but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
>> bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
>> --scott
>
> Well, the compression test results are in.
>
> From left to right facing the engine the cylinders measured:
>
> 1) 110 lbs
> 2) 45 lbs
> 3) 5 lbs
> 4) 10 lbs
>
> The plugs that came out of the low reading cylinders all had tiny water
> droplets on them. Either a blown head gasket or a cracked head or block.
>
> I'm guessing a cracked block.
>
> Everything under the valve cover looked okay.

that can't possibly be good.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:47:36 -0700, Foothill Fred wrote:

>> That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
>> open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
>> over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
>> but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
>> bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
>> --scott
>
> Well, the compression test results are in.
>
> From left to right facing the engine the cylinders measured:
>
> 1) 110 lbs
> 2) 45 lbs
> 3) 5 lbs
> 4) 10 lbs

I'd change my name to Boothill Fred...

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Foothill Fred wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Foothill Fred > wrote:
>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
>>>>> are you don't have the fourth.
>>>> How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
>>>> necessary for combustion to take place?
>>> That's part of timing. If the valves don't open or the valves don't
>>> close, or the valves are now in fragments somewhere in the exhaust pipe,
>>> you don't have proper valve timing.
>>>
>>>>> Pulling the valve covers will probably
>>>>> tell you at least how far gone things are.
>>>> What would I be looking for under the valve cover?
>>> That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
>>> open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
>>> over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
>>> but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
>>> bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
>>> --scott
>> Well, the compression test results are in.
>>
>> From left to right facing the engine the cylinders measured:
>>
>> 1) 110 lbs
>> 2) 45 lbs
>> 3) 5 lbs
>> 4) 10 lbs
>>
>> The plugs that came out of the low reading cylinders all had tiny water
>> droplets on them. Either a blown head gasket or a cracked head or block.
>>
>> I'm guessing a cracked block.
>>
>> Everything under the valve cover looked okay.
>
> that can't possibly be good.
>
> nate


ya think? :-)

It would be easy enough to yank the head off and check around to see
what's what, whether the head gasket is the only problem or if there are
visible cracks in the head or block.

I was thinking about filling the radiator with water and cranking the
engine to get it circulating in the block and then seeing if it was
leaking out anywhere.

But this car has been driven into the ground in more ways than one and
the best thing for all concerned is to give it a decent burial and get
on with life.

Foothill Fred wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> Foothill Fred wrote:
>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> Foothill Fred > wrote:
>>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>> FAST.... Fuel, Air, Spark, and Timing. You got the first three, odds
>>>>>> are you don't have the fourth.
>>>>> How do I fit a 'C' in there? Isn't compression above 70-80 pounds
>>>>> necessary for combustion to take place?
>>>> That's part of timing. If the valves don't open or the valves don't
>>>> close, or the valves are now in fragments somewhere in the exhaust pipe,
>>>> you don't have proper valve timing.
>>>>
>>>>>> Pulling the valve covers will probably
>>>>>> tell you at least how far gone things are.
>>>>> What would I be looking for under the valve cover?
>>>> That the camshaft is still there and is in one piece, and that the valves
>>>> open and close more or less in the right order when you turn the engine
>>>> over. Not that it's not also possible to have lower engine damage too,
>>>> but my bet is that you'll see something like the a seized-up camshaft
>>>> bearing or some twisted-up valve pieces.
>>>> --scott
>>> Well, the compression test results are in.
>>>
>>> From left to right facing the engine the cylinders measured:
>>>
>>> 1) 110 lbs
>>> 2) 45 lbs
>>> 3) 5 lbs
>>> 4) 10 lbs
>>>
>>> The plugs that came out of the low reading cylinders all had tiny water
>>> droplets on them. Either a blown head gasket or a cracked head or block.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing a cracked block.
>>>
>>> Everything under the valve cover looked okay.
>> that can't possibly be good.
>>
>> nate
>
>
> ya think? :-)
>
> It would be easy enough to yank the head off and check around to see
> what's what, whether the head gasket is the only problem or if there are
> visible cracks in the head or block.
>
> I was thinking about filling the radiator with water and cranking the
> engine to get it circulating in the block and then seeing if it was
> leaking out anywhere.
>
> But this car has been driven into the ground in more ways than one and
> the best thing for all concerned is to give it a decent burial and get
> on with life.

if you have a cooling system pressure tester you could try that before
sending it to the Big Parking Lot In The Sky.

I suspect you're right though. if the timing had slipped compression
would be low but even. water on plugs ain't particularly good either.

nate

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