Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:30:32 -0500, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>
>1) you likely are experiencing accelerated corrosion in your cooling
>system, whether you realize it or not.
>
I don't doubt that at all.

>2) a brake fluid flush is something that you can do yourself, and for
>$79.95 you can probably buy a pressure bleeder, an extra adapter for
>your second car, and a couple quarts of fresh brake fluid and be set for
>life
>
>http://store.motiveproducts.com/
>
I won't be needing that. Thanks.

>I'd be far more likely to buy a used car from someone who told me that
>they believed in changing all fluids periodically than from someone who
>told me that the coolant in their car was 10 years old...
>
Agree. But I don't sell my cars unless I can talk the boneyard
wrecker out of 35 bucks. Been years since they bit.
The cars always run ok, but the bodys/frames are shot with rust.
Not too surprisingly, the boneyard never asks about my fluid changes.
I don't even bother telling them if I recently filled the windshield
washer jug.

--Vic

"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...

>
> I'd be far more likely to buy a used car from someone who told me that
> they believed in changing all fluids periodically than from someone who
> told me that the coolant in their car was 10 years old...
>
> nate

I agree, Nate.. I would not want one of his cars.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:03:05 -0600, "HLS" > wrote:

>
>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> I'd be far more likely to buy a used car from someone who told me that
>> they believed in changing all fluids periodically than from someone who
>> told me that the coolant in their car was 10 years old...
>>
>> nate
>
>I agree, Nate.. I would not want one of his cars.

You have absolutely no need to worry about that..

--Vic

Steve > wrote in
:


>
> A person who throws excessive maintenance at oil changes (by AT LEAST
> a factor of 2!) and then refuses to do something so basic as a coolant
> flush at the proper intervals is very definitely a paradox. Or at
> least very illogical. Or both.



Or a troll...


--
Tegger

"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
...
>>I'd be far more likely to buy a used car from someone who told me that
>>they believed in changing all fluids periodically than from someone who
>>told me that the coolant in their car was 10 years old...
>>
> Agree. But I don't sell my cars unless I can talk the boneyard
> wrecker out of 35 bucks. Been years since they bit.
> The cars always run ok, but the bodys/frames are shot with rust.
> Not too surprisingly, the boneyard never asks about my fluid changes.
> I don't even bother telling them if I recently filled the windshield
> washer jug.

Well if you keep each of your cars to the point that they are only fit for
scrap, then that's fair enough.

I prefer to change my car while it's still roadworthy (and has at least
*some* residual value) because they last thing I want is a car that is going
to break down on me.

For a car that's going to be driven after I've sold it, the buyer (not
surprisingly) will want to make sure it's been properly looked after and
doesn't have any major problems lurking behind the scenes.

If it has been well looked after, that may even mean that the parts taken
for spares when the car is cannibalised by the scrap yard will be in a more
saleable condition.

As a matter of interest, how old are your cars if they are affected by rust?
The last time I had a car go rusty on me (mainly the rear wheel-arches) was
a 1978 Renault 5. Every car that I've had since then (another Renault 5, 2
VG Golfs, 2 Peugeot 306s) has not suffered from rust. My present car is much
older than the first Renault was when I sold it and there's not a blemish of
rust, nor has it had to have any welding to repair rusty floor panels so it
will pass its MOT (annual inspection required in the UK for any vehicle 3
years or older).

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:20:45 -0800 (PST), metspitzer
> wrote:

>I found some at a relative's house that may be 15 years old.
>It is in a can with a screw off top. I didn't notice the brand.


It's no worse, and probably better then, whatever's in your system
now. Regular brake fluid will soak up about 3% moisture and that's
about it. In regular use in a car it will achieve that level in about
2 years or so. Ford has studied it and concluded that if you have
your brakes serviced (new pads, whatever) at typical intervals and
that such service includes flushing the brake fluid, that's all you
need to worry about.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:50:15 -0000, "Mortimer" > wrote:
>
>I prefer to change my car while it's still roadworthy (and has at least
>*some* residual value) because they last thing I want is a car that is going
>to break down on me.
>
>For a car that's going to be driven after I've sold it, the buyer (not
>surprisingly) will want to make sure it's been properly looked after and
>doesn't have any major problems lurking behind the scenes.
>
>If it has been well looked after, that may even mean that the parts taken
>for spares when the car is cannibalised by the scrap yard will be in a more
>saleable condition.
>
>As a matter of interest, how old are your cars if they are affected by rust?
>The last time I had a car go rusty on me (mainly the rear wheel-arches) was
>a 1978 Renault 5. Every car that I've had since then (another Renault 5, 2
>VG Golfs, 2 Peugeot 306s) has not suffered from rust. My present car is much
>older than the first Renault was when I sold it and there's not a blemish of
>rust, nor has it had to have any welding to repair rusty floor panels so it
>will pass its MOT (annual inspection required in the UK for any vehicle 3
>years or older).
>
First off, one should take care of any car he intends to keep for
himself or sell to someone else.
You can decide if a brake system flush is a selling point.
If I were to be looking at your car, and you mentioned that,
it would make no difference to me, because I don't care what
anybody selling a car says, since I assume they're lying anyway.
Even the truth wouldn't matter on a brake fluid flush.
I look the car over, drive it, listen to it, feel it, and decide if I
want to pay the price. It has worked every time for me.
If the oil smells like fried chicken, or there's sawdust on the
dipstick, I'll take a pass.
Here's a quick stab at listing rust buckets and when junked..
64 VW Bug - extensive rust and driver seat dropping through floorpan
in 75.
74 Dodge Dart - extensive rust in flapping rear quarter panels, trunk
and frame at leaf spring attachment points in 82.
76 Chevy Caprice extensive rust, flapping door panels and bad door
hardware in 85.
85 Cavalier rusted to hell and door hardware shot in 98.
88 Celebrity extensive rust door and quarter panels in 2002.
Had a couple others that were beginning to rust when engines failed so
not worth fixing. 72 Chevy Nova 302 bad valves, 80 Beauville Van 350
rod knock.
I did sell/trade a couple good runners I just didn't care for/need.
66 Ford F100 352, 67 VW Squareback. They were rusting and I got
unsolicited offers from people who wanted them.
The 90 Corsica is holding up well for some reason, with very little
body rust, but the headliner is down.
The 97 Lumina has some rust coming through the rocker panels, but a
little work to slow it should make it do for another 5 years or so.
Understand, where I live (Chicago) the roads are salted, which is the
prime reason for the rusting.
Once rust is bad enough there's a snowball effect; door hardware,
interior carpeting, brake lines, etc.
When it's uncomfortable or unsafe, it just gets junked.
The reason I don't bother changing coolant in the 90 Corsica is
because I don't care what happens to it, as I am ready to let it go at
any time.
Even with that, as long as it runs well, and it does, I'll use it for
my local driving. It could well last a few more years. I sorta hope
it doesn't.
I paid very little for these cars, and except for the Impala and
Cavalier they had no serious rust when I bought them.
I never intended to resell any one of them, and have gotten full value
from them. But rust accompanies death and taxes here.
You might guess I don't care much about how my car appears, though
most looked very decent when I bought them.
I actually gave away the 85 Cavalier and the 76 Impala to others to
drive, proving that some have even lower standards than me.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:29:33 -0600, Steve > wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> What an interesting paradox: you don't check/change the brake fluid or
>>>> coolant, but you change the oil every 2500-3000 miles when for many cars the
>>>> service intervals (and therefore oil change intervals) may be 10-15,000
>>>> miles.
>>>>
>>> Sure. And I suppose it's paradoxical that I don't use Bardahl,
>>> Amsoil, Mobil 1, Teflon, Rain-X, do oil analysis, sprinkle pimp oil,
>>> wax weekly, <snip drivel>
>> Actually he makes a good point.
>>
>> A person who throws excessive maintenance at oil changes (by AT LEAST a
>> factor of 2!) and then refuses to do something so basic as a coolant
>> flush at the proper intervals is very definitely a paradox. Or at least
>> very illogical. Or both.
>>
> You do realize you just said that oil changes should occur NO SOONER
> than 6000 miles, regardless of service.
> In case you don't know, you just did.
> Maybe you really believe that. I don't. Doesn't matter anyway.

You're right. There's one type of service that would need a change
sooner. Fording a river in my Jeep and getting water in the crankcase...


>
>> For what its worth- even if your cooling system WAS hermetically sealed
>> and impossible to contaminate, as you erroneously claim that brake
>> systems are, you DO realize that corrosion inhibitors have a limited
>> lifetime, don't you? Silicate-based inhibitors show significant
>> deterioration after 2 years, and HOAT/OAT types after about 5 years. Its
>> not about being "open" in that case, its about the reactions that occur
>> as a natural part of the way the chemicals work to protect the metals in
>> the system.
>>
> Are you talking about the coolant that's been circulating through my
> Corsica for 10 1/2 years, cooling it summer and winter? That coolant?
> Prestone green as I recall. Been a damn long time.

Oh, it'll keep on cooling. That's not what you use antifreeze for
anyway, its main purpose is to stop corrosion, and its second purpose is
to prevent freezing in extended sub-30s weather. It actaully IMPAIRS
cooling a little bit when compared to pure water. The old green forumlas
were used silicate corrosion inhibitors, and the silicate starts
precipitating out after about 2-3 years. If you don't know that, then
maybe you're the one that needs an introduction to the real world.


> Apparently it's going to keep ignoring your numbers, formulas, and
> chemical composition postulations a bit longer.
> Welcome to the real world.
> If it protests I'll call the wrecker to take it away.

Yeah, we know you don't give a rat**** about your car. If you did, you'd
have changed the coolant about 8 years ago, like the manual says. It
still boggles me that you'll be pedantic about following the manual's 3k
mile oil change recommendation when modern oils can go so much longer,
but you'll leave totally used-up antifreeze in there for a decade.

Suit yourself. Hope you have that wrecker on speed-dial, because if you
treat the coolant that way I'd hate to think about all the other
neglected systems on there. If you haven't changed the coolant, its also
obvious that you've got 10-year-old (at least) radiator and heater hoses
waiting to burst. Bet the freeze-plugs are tissue-thin, too... I've seen
what failure to change the coolant does to those plenty of times.

Mortimer wrote:

> Well if you keep each of your cars to the point that they are only fit for
> scrap, then that's fair enough.

That's the whole point. He's got a 90s vehicle waiting for the
scrapyard, but I'd be willing to jump in my 60s vehicle and drive from
Texas to San Diego tomorrow if I had to, because I know it won't fall
apart before I get to Tuscon.

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:03:05 -0600, "HLS" > wrote:
>
>> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I'd be far more likely to buy a used car from someone who told me that
>>> they believed in changing all fluids periodically than from someone who
>>> told me that the coolant in their car was 10 years old...
>>>
>>> nate
>> I agree, Nate.. I would not want one of his cars.
>
> You have absolutely no need to worry about that..
>
> --Vic


You don't get it, do you?

If run-it-till-it-dies is your plan, that's fine. But don't go
dispensing "wisdom" about how you never need to flush brake fluid or
coolant to other people based on your mode of operation! I saw your
list of clunkers, and they rarely lasted 8 years. My daily driver is 43
years old this model year. We just retired my wife's car at 16 model
years old. Your plan certainly doesn't apply to me. Granted, I'm at the
*other* end of the bell curve from you, but even the people within 1
standard deviation of the mean- ie those who will keep a car for
somewhere between 3 and 10 years and then sell it for a lot more than
scrap value- need to take care of their cars better than what you are
recommending in order to avoid throwing away money.