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Does brake fluid have a shelf life?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 15th 08, 09:28 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Mortimer
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Posts: 104
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:55:57 -0500, "Steve W." >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Guess you don't bother to check the oil or coolant either.

>
> As a matter of fact I hardly ever do that anymore. The cars I'm
> running now went like this.
> A '90 Corsica 2.2 I replaced the hoses/coolant/thermostat and popped
> the GM tablets in because I saw a rust stain on the head.
> 10 years ago when I bought it. The rad cap hasn't been twisted since.
> Why would I look? It doesn't freeze and it doesn't overheat.
> If I was going to keep it a few more years I might change
> hoses/coolant again. But I ain't.
> First serious problem it gets retired.
> Pretty much the same with the '97 Lumina.
> Did the hoses/coolant/thermo 5 years ago when I bought it.
> Since the girls took it to Florida last year I put new
> hoses/coolant/thermo on it again, and threw in a water pump too.


> I change oil 2500-3000.


What an interesting paradox: you don't check/change the brake fluid or
coolant, but you change the oil every 2500-3000 miles when for many cars the
service intervals (and therefore oil change intervals) may be 10-15,000
miles.


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  #22  
Old December 15th 08, 09:42 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Steve[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,043
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

Mortimer wrote:
> "N8N" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I imagine the same is true of the power-steering fluid (if the car has
>> PAS),
>> though the effect of water in the fluid is much less severe than for
>> brakes.

>
> AFAIK power steering fluid is just a modified oil like ATF (actually
> ATF is used in many power steering systems) so this is less of a
> concern.
>
> ====
>
> I've always wondered why brake fluid isn't just a non-compressible oil:
> there must be something very beneficial about the qualities of brake fluid
> to put up with the disadvantage that it is hygroscopic.
>
>


Oil boils when brought near a red-hot caliper piston. Brake fluid doesn't.

  #23  
Old December 15th 08, 10:07 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
disston
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Posts: 69
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

Do not use DOT 5 in anything that already has DOT 3/4 in it. It will
cause you to have to change all the seals, o-rings and little rubber
thingies. You can mix 3 and 4 but not 5. #5 was sold about 25 years
ago as some hotrod brake helper. A lot of bikers bought it and ended
up replaceing the seals because their systems came with #4 and I've
heard that even if you try to flush the old stuf out it still will not
work. Turns out the #5 is also not dependable for heavy use, I'm
getting vague on this, but I think it boils at a lower temp. Only
advantage of #5 is it doesn't absorb water so there is less chance of
rusting brake parts in systems that never have the fluid changed.

My recomendation is to flush brake systems completely once a year. I
know there are manfacturers recomendations and this sounds pretty
lofty of me but it is how I try to do it and at a cost of less than $5
per car or $1 per bike, I'm stiking with it.

Use the old fluid at your own risk but, sense you asked, if I had any
systems that were using fluid, like sometimes my car needs fluid till
I get around to fixing it, I would use it there but I don't think I
would put the fluid you ask about in a good brake system.

I hadn't heard that they switched from SS to brass for brake sleaves.
Just a guess but I'll bet the brass gives longer service because
Stainless Steal is not really stainless.

  #24  
Old December 15th 08, 10:17 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Vic Smith
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Posts: 953
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:28:09 -0000, "Mortimer" > wrote:

>"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:55:57 -0500, "Steve W." >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Guess you don't bother to check the oil or coolant either.

>>
>> As a matter of fact I hardly ever do that anymore. The cars I'm
>> running now went like this.
>> A '90 Corsica 2.2 I replaced the hoses/coolant/thermostat and popped
>> the GM tablets in because I saw a rust stain on the head.
>> 10 years ago when I bought it. The rad cap hasn't been twisted since.
>> Why would I look? It doesn't freeze and it doesn't overheat.
>> If I was going to keep it a few more years I might change
>> hoses/coolant again. But I ain't.
>> First serious problem it gets retired.
>> Pretty much the same with the '97 Lumina.
>> Did the hoses/coolant/thermo 5 years ago when I bought it.
>> Since the girls took it to Florida last year I put new
>> hoses/coolant/thermo on it again, and threw in a water pump too.

>
>> I change oil 2500-3000.

>
>What an interesting paradox: you don't check/change the brake fluid or
>coolant, but you change the oil every 2500-3000 miles when for many cars the
>service intervals (and therefore oil change intervals) may be 10-15,000
>miles.
>

Sure. And I suppose it's paradoxical that I don't use Bardahl,
Amsoil, Mobil 1, Teflon, Rain-X, do oil analysis, sprinkle pimp oil,
wax weekly, have spinner hubcaps, dice hanging from the mirror, a
Mother Mary dash figurine, various decals, etc, etc.
Guess I'm just one interesting and mysterious son of a bitch who will
never be truly understood.
But my cars always do what they're supposed to do.
Except when they don't.
BTW, when I change oil I wipe the battery with a clean rag.
And dump the ashtray.
Maybe that's really why I change the oil. It's a reminder.
Wait. All that sounds pretty boring. I take it back.

--Vic
  #25  
Old December 15th 08, 10:57 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
N8N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,477
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

On Dec 15, 2:00*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> N8N > wrote:
>
> >Thread drift: used to be, companies specializing in rebuilding
> >obsolete brake components used to sleeve the cylinders in stainless
> >steel. *Lately I have seen a shift to brass. *Anyone know why this
> >is? *I honestly don't know what the advantages/disadvantages to the
> >two materials may be, although obviously either one should last longer
> >than cast iron as the usual failure mode seems to be corrosion.

>
> Brass is a lot less expensive to work because it's so much softer. *
> And if you use ****ty Chinese cartridge brass, the material can cost
> less too.


well, yeah... but the kind of people who send their old calipers and
wheel cylinders to e.g. White Post or Goldline really aren't concerned
with cost. So I ASSume that there must be some advantage to brass
over SS, but I don't know what it may be.

nate

  #26  
Old December 15th 08, 11:29 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Steve[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,043
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

Vic Smith wrote:

>> What an interesting paradox: you don't check/change the brake fluid or
>> coolant, but you change the oil every 2500-3000 miles when for many cars the
>> service intervals (and therefore oil change intervals) may be 10-15,000
>> miles.
>>

> Sure. And I suppose it's paradoxical that I don't use Bardahl,
> Amsoil, Mobil 1, Teflon, Rain-X, do oil analysis, sprinkle pimp oil,
> wax weekly, <snip drivel>


Actually he makes a good point.

A person who throws excessive maintenance at oil changes (by AT LEAST a
factor of 2!) and then refuses to do something so basic as a coolant
flush at the proper intervals is very definitely a paradox. Or at least
very illogical. Or both.

For what its worth- even if your cooling system WAS hermetically sealed
and impossible to contaminate, as you erroneously claim that brake
systems are, you DO realize that corrosion inhibitors have a limited
lifetime, don't you? Silicate-based inhibitors show significant
deterioration after 2 years, and HOAT/OAT types after about 5 years. Its
not about being "open" in that case, its about the reactions that occur
as a natural part of the way the chemicals work to protect the metals in
the system.


  #27  
Old December 15th 08, 11:33 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
metspitzer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

On Dec 14, 5:20*pm, metspitzer > wrote:
> I found some at a relative's house that may be 15 years old.
> It is in a can with a screw off top. *I didn't notice the brand.


Toss the brake fluid. Got it.

Thanks everyone.
  #28  
Old December 16th 08, 12:18 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Vic Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 953
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:29:33 -0600, Steve > wrote:

>Vic Smith wrote:
>
>>> What an interesting paradox: you don't check/change the brake fluid or
>>> coolant, but you change the oil every 2500-3000 miles when for many cars the
>>> service intervals (and therefore oil change intervals) may be 10-15,000
>>> miles.
>>>

>> Sure. And I suppose it's paradoxical that I don't use Bardahl,
>> Amsoil, Mobil 1, Teflon, Rain-X, do oil analysis, sprinkle pimp oil,
>> wax weekly, <snip drivel>

>
>Actually he makes a good point.
>
>A person who throws excessive maintenance at oil changes (by AT LEAST a
>factor of 2!) and then refuses to do something so basic as a coolant
>flush at the proper intervals is very definitely a paradox. Or at least
>very illogical. Or both.
>

You do realize you just said that oil changes should occur NO SOONER
than 6000 miles, regardless of service.
In case you don't know, you just did.
Maybe you really believe that. I don't. Doesn't matter anyway.

>For what its worth- even if your cooling system WAS hermetically sealed
>and impossible to contaminate, as you erroneously claim that brake
>systems are, you DO realize that corrosion inhibitors have a limited
>lifetime, don't you? Silicate-based inhibitors show significant
>deterioration after 2 years, and HOAT/OAT types after about 5 years. Its
>not about being "open" in that case, its about the reactions that occur
>as a natural part of the way the chemicals work to protect the metals in
>the system.
>

Are you talking about the coolant that's been circulating through my
Corsica for 10 1/2 years, cooling it summer and winter? That coolant?
Prestone green as I recall. Been a damn long time.
Apparently it's going to keep ignoring your numbers, formulas, and
chemical composition postulations a bit longer.
Welcome to the real world.
If it protests I'll call the wrecker to take it away.
But I already told you that.
As to my keeper/highway car the longest it's gone without a coolant
change is 3 years - since I've had it anyway..
But I already said that.
About my oil changes you had no idea about service, but just wanted to
take a shot.
The guy who's pushing brake fluid flushes because of practically
microscopic pitting of brake cylinder bores is now squawking that I
change oil too often.
Get real.
Hey, I have to ask. I just can not resist.
You get $79.95 for that bull**** brake fluid flush?
And if you do oil changes, when do your stickers say to come back for
more?
Again, get real.

--Vic
  #29  
Old December 16th 08, 12:30 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,686
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:29:33 -0600, Steve > wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>
>>>> What an interesting paradox: you don't check/change the brake fluid or
>>>> coolant, but you change the oil every 2500-3000 miles when for many cars the
>>>> service intervals (and therefore oil change intervals) may be 10-15,000
>>>> miles.
>>>>
>>> Sure. And I suppose it's paradoxical that I don't use Bardahl,
>>> Amsoil, Mobil 1, Teflon, Rain-X, do oil analysis, sprinkle pimp oil,
>>> wax weekly, <snip drivel>

>> Actually he makes a good point.
>>
>> A person who throws excessive maintenance at oil changes (by AT LEAST a
>> factor of 2!) and then refuses to do something so basic as a coolant
>> flush at the proper intervals is very definitely a paradox. Or at least
>> very illogical. Or both.
>>

> You do realize you just said that oil changes should occur NO SOONER
> than 6000 miles, regardless of service.
> In case you don't know, you just did.
> Maybe you really believe that. I don't. Doesn't matter anyway.
>
>> For what its worth- even if your cooling system WAS hermetically sealed
>> and impossible to contaminate, as you erroneously claim that brake
>> systems are, you DO realize that corrosion inhibitors have a limited
>> lifetime, don't you? Silicate-based inhibitors show significant
>> deterioration after 2 years, and HOAT/OAT types after about 5 years. Its
>> not about being "open" in that case, its about the reactions that occur
>> as a natural part of the way the chemicals work to protect the metals in
>> the system.
>>

> Are you talking about the coolant that's been circulating through my
> Corsica for 10 1/2 years, cooling it summer and winter? That coolant?
> Prestone green as I recall. Been a damn long time.
> Apparently it's going to keep ignoring your numbers, formulas, and
> chemical composition postulations a bit longer.
> Welcome to the real world.
> If it protests I'll call the wrecker to take it away.
> But I already told you that.
> As to my keeper/highway car the longest it's gone without a coolant
> change is 3 years - since I've had it anyway..
> But I already said that.
> About my oil changes you had no idea about service, but just wanted to
> take a shot.
> The guy who's pushing brake fluid flushes because of practically
> microscopic pitting of brake cylinder bores is now squawking that I
> change oil too often.
> Get real.
> Hey, I have to ask. I just can not resist.
> You get $79.95 for that bull**** brake fluid flush?
> And if you do oil changes, when do your stickers say to come back for
> more?
> Again, get real.
>
> --Vic


1) you likely are experiencing accelerated corrosion in your cooling
system, whether you realize it or not.

2) a brake fluid flush is something that you can do yourself, and for
$79.95 you can probably buy a pressure bleeder, an extra adapter for
your second car, and a couple quarts of fresh brake fluid and be set for
life

http://store.motiveproducts.com/

I'd be far more likely to buy a used car from someone who told me that
they believed in changing all fluids periodically than from someone who
told me that the coolant in their car was 10 years old...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  #30  
Old December 16th 08, 12:37 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,686
Default Does brake fluid have a shelf life?

disston wrote:
> Do not use DOT 5 in anything that already has DOT 3/4 in it. It will
> cause you to have to change all the seals, o-rings and little rubber
> thingies. You can mix 3 and 4 but not 5. #5 was sold about 25 years
> ago as some hotrod brake helper. A lot of bikers bought it and ended
> up replaceing the seals because their systems came with #4 and I've
> heard that even if you try to flush the old stuf out it still will not
> work. Turns out the #5 is also not dependable for heavy use, I'm
> getting vague on this, but I think it boils at a lower temp. Only
> advantage of #5 is it doesn't absorb water so there is less chance of
> rusting brake parts in systems that never have the fluid changed.
>
> My recomendation is to flush brake systems completely once a year. I
> know there are manfacturers recomendations and this sounds pretty
> lofty of me but it is how I try to do it and at a cost of less than $5
> per car or $1 per bike, I'm stiking with it.
>
> Use the old fluid at your own risk but, sense you asked, if I had any
> systems that were using fluid, like sometimes my car needs fluid till
> I get around to fixing it, I would use it there but I don't think I
> would put the fluid you ask about in a good brake system.
>
> I hadn't heard that they switched from SS to brass for brake sleaves.
> Just a guess but I'll bet the brass gives longer service because
> Stainless Steal is not really stainless.
>


I have heard that you *can* switch to DOT 5 if you first flush
completely with alcohol and then blow everything dry with air. If you
have a pressure bleeder and some 70% rubbing alcohol you could probably
take a pretty good stab at it. I just don't see the point as IMHO
whatever fluid you use should still be changed regularly and DOT 3/4
works better than DOT 5 anyway.

I have heard that there are now some fluids called "DOT 5.1" that meet
DOT 5 specs for boiling point but are otherwise similar to and
intermiscible with DOT 3/4. If I start seeing them on the shelf at my
FLAPS I'd be interested to try them to see if there are any downsides.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
 




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