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Guess on horsepower???



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 3rd 05, 08:55 PM
Willis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guess on horsepower???

Good afternoon all,

Maybe this is an amateur question, but based on the build specs below,
does anybody have a rough idea (or ballpark guess) of what kind of
horsepower this engine could generate? I have yet to get my car dyno'd.
If it's something that can't be figured out just by looking at the info
above, just call me a rookie and I'll be quiet haha...

Car:

1963 Ford Galaxie 500 Fastback

Engine:

1972 Bored, Stroked, and Balanced 427 Ford Sideoiler (marine or service
block) with 428 Crankshaft
..030 Overbore to 454 c.i.
TRW Forged Pistons
Hastings Rings - Part # 2M5517.035
Triple Angle Valve Job
Stainless Steel Valve Seats
Comp Cams - .605 Lift Camshaft - Part # 33-246-4
Comp Cams - Solid Lifters - Part # - COM 835-16
Comp Cams - Valve Springs - Part # COM 924-16
Comp Cams - Retainers - Part # COM 741-16
Ford Pushrods - Part # FOR M6565L427
Ford Rocker Arms
Ford Windage Tray - Part # FOR M6687A390
Milodon High Volume Oil Pump - Part # MIL 18830
ARP Engine Bolt Kit - Part # 555-9802
ARP Head Bolt Kit - Part # 155-3601
Edelbrock Aluminum Heads - Edelbrock Part # 60089
Edelbrock Aluminum Intake Manifold (Perf RPM) - Part # 7105
Holly 850 CFM Double-Pumper Carburetor - Part # 0-9381
Mallory Uni-Lite Distributor
Autolite Plug Wires
Crane Vacuum Reserve System - Part # 99590-1
Cobra Aluminum Valve Covers - Part # PRATFVC8
Aluminum Oval Air Cleaner

Transmission:

B&M Ford C-6 Comp. Transmission - Part # 114002
2:46 first gear ratio
1:46 second gear ratio
B&M Chrome Transmission Pan with Drain -
B&M Holeshot 2400 Stall Converter - Part # 40412

Rear-End:

9" Ford Rear-End with 3.50 Gears

Exhaust:

406 C.I. Shorty Cast Iron Headers w/ Header Bypass Plates
Custom 2 =BD" H-Pipe
Oval Turbo Mufflers
Custom 2 =BD" Tailpipes
Custom 2 =BD" Drag Pipes

Steering & Brakes:

Optional Power Steering
Optional Power Brakes

New or Rebuilt:

Flywheel
Starter
Alternator
Engine & Transmission Mounts
Master Cylinder & Booster
Transmission Yoke
Fuel Pump
Universal Joints
Horns
Weather-stripping
Fuel Line & Filter
Oil Caps
427 Emblems
Carpet
Trunk Mat
Dip Stick Tube
Door Handle
Pressure Gauge
Spark Plugs
Heater Hose
Engine Belts
Radiator Hoses
Rear End Gears
Mufflers & Pipes
Wheel Cylinders


I know the factory 427s ran at 410 and 425 hp, depending on carb setup
- should I expect around the same, or even greater numbers since I'm
bored .030 over to a 454???

I know there is a differernce between hp generated at the engine and hp
generated at the rear wheels, due to lost energy, etc. Can someone
explain that to me, and the differences I may expect?

Assume that I'd be running premium gas.

Thanks,

Jason

Ads
  #2  
Old August 3rd 05, 09:17 PM
John S.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Willis wrote:
> Good afternoon all,
>
> Maybe this is an amateur question, but based on the build specs below,
> does anybody have a rough idea (or ballpark guess) of what kind of
> horsepower this engine could generate? I have yet to get my car dyno'd.
> If it's something that can't be figured out just by looking at the info
> above, just call me a rookie and I'll be quiet haha...


It is some number > 0 and < 1,000.
The only way to get a meaningful number is to put it on a dyno.

  #3  
Old August 3rd 05, 09:51 PM
ray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John S. wrote:
> Willis wrote:
>
>>Good afternoon all,
>>
>>Maybe this is an amateur question, but based on the build specs below,
>>does anybody have a rough idea (or ballpark guess) of what kind of
>>horsepower this engine could generate? I have yet to get my car dyno'd.
>>If it's something that can't be figured out just by looking at the info
>>above, just call me a rookie and I'll be quiet haha...

>
>
> It is some number > 0 and < 1,000.
> The only way to get a meaningful number is to put it on a dyno.
>


If you can't dyno it, try a dragstrip and a weigh scale. That'll get
you close and it's a lot more fun than racing a dyno.
  #4  
Old August 3rd 05, 10:56 PM
Shep
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Compression ratio and camshaft duration specs at .050. cam lift are
missing, with this info there is a program that can approximate engine
output. As suggested by Ray, your 1/4 trap speeds and weight can be plugged
into a formula that comes fairly close to hp on that particular run.
"Willis" > wrote in message
ups.com...
Good afternoon all,

Maybe this is an amateur question, but based on the build specs below,
does anybody have a rough idea (or ballpark guess) of what kind of
horsepower this engine could generate? I have yet to get my car dyno'd.
If it's something that can't be figured out just by looking at the info
above, just call me a rookie and I'll be quiet haha...

Car:

1963 Ford Galaxie 500 Fastback

Engine:

1972 Bored, Stroked, and Balanced 427 Ford Sideoiler (marine or service
block) with 428 Crankshaft
..030 Overbore to 454 c.i.
TRW Forged Pistons
Hastings Rings - Part # 2M5517.035
Triple Angle Valve Job
Stainless Steel Valve Seats
Comp Cams - .605 Lift Camshaft - Part # 33-246-4
Comp Cams - Solid Lifters - Part # - COM 835-16
Comp Cams - Valve Springs - Part # COM 924-16
Comp Cams - Retainers - Part # COM 741-16
Ford Pushrods - Part # FOR M6565L427
Ford Rocker Arms
Ford Windage Tray - Part # FOR M6687A390
Milodon High Volume Oil Pump - Part # MIL 18830
ARP Engine Bolt Kit - Part # 555-9802
ARP Head Bolt Kit - Part # 155-3601
Edelbrock Aluminum Heads - Edelbrock Part # 60089
Edelbrock Aluminum Intake Manifold (Perf RPM) - Part # 7105
Holly 850 CFM Double-Pumper Carburetor - Part # 0-9381
Mallory Uni-Lite Distributor
Autolite Plug Wires
Crane Vacuum Reserve System - Part # 99590-1
Cobra Aluminum Valve Covers - Part # PRATFVC8
Aluminum Oval Air Cleaner

Transmission:

B&M Ford C-6 Comp. Transmission - Part # 114002
2:46 first gear ratio
1:46 second gear ratio
B&M Chrome Transmission Pan with Drain -
B&M Holeshot 2400 Stall Converter - Part # 40412

Rear-End:

9" Ford Rear-End with 3.50 Gears

Exhaust:

406 C.I. Shorty Cast Iron Headers w/ Header Bypass Plates
Custom 2 ˝" H-Pipe
Oval Turbo Mufflers
Custom 2 ˝" Tailpipes
Custom 2 ˝" Drag Pipes

Steering & Brakes:

Optional Power Steering
Optional Power Brakes

New or Rebuilt:

Flywheel
Starter
Alternator
Engine & Transmission Mounts
Master Cylinder & Booster
Transmission Yoke
Fuel Pump
Universal Joints
Horns
Weather-stripping
Fuel Line & Filter
Oil Caps
427 Emblems
Carpet
Trunk Mat
Dip Stick Tube
Door Handle
Pressure Gauge
Spark Plugs
Heater Hose
Engine Belts
Radiator Hoses
Rear End Gears
Mufflers & Pipes
Wheel Cylinders


I know the factory 427s ran at 410 and 425 hp, depending on carb setup
- should I expect around the same, or even greater numbers since I'm
bored .030 over to a 454???

I know there is a differernce between hp generated at the engine and hp
generated at the rear wheels, due to lost energy, etc. Can someone
explain that to me, and the differences I may expect?

Assume that I'd be running premium gas.

Thanks,

Jason




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  #5  
Old August 4th 05, 12:41 AM
Ad absurdum per aspera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

To take a guess at what you might hope to get with cam, carburetion,
etc. well sorted out, have a look at some of these programs:
http://www.cobralads.com/butcher41.html

A physical dynamometer or (if you want a lot more apples mixed in with
your oranges) dragstrip numbers is the proof of the puttering, of
course. Make that well-understood results from a well-run
dynamometer appropriate to the expected horsepower:
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9


Cheers,
--Joe

  #6  
Old August 4th 05, 03:20 PM
Don Stauffer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ray wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
>> Willis wrote:
>>
>>> Good afternoon all,
>>>
>>> Maybe this is an amateur question, but based on the build specs below,
>>> does anybody have a rough idea (or ballpark guess) of what kind of
>>> horsepower this engine could generate? I have yet to get my car dyno'd.
>>> If it's something that can't be figured out just by looking at the info
>>> above, just call me a rookie and I'll be quiet haha...

>>
>>
>>
>> It is some number > 0 and < 1,000.
>> The only way to get a meaningful number is to put it on a dyno.
>>

>
> If you can't dyno it, try a dragstrip and a weigh scale. That'll get
> you close and it's a lot more fun than racing a dyno.



What the drag strip time actually measures is the integral of horsepower
over a wide rpm range. Now, in actual fact, that integral is probably
more important than peak HP, which is probably what the first poster was
interested in. It is possible, of course, to determine peak HP on a
dyno, but not to pull it out of drag time.

One can compute delivered (chassis) hp knowing weight and using one of
those accelerometer devices, which are getting relatively inexpensive
these days.

Personally, I and a number of others have long felt there should be a
formal name given to that integral, and say define it between the two
half-power points. To my knowledge, no standard as such for it exists.
But it certainly bears an important relationship to performance.

Certainly in F1 many decades ago several teams came out with new
versions of engines which actually had less peak hp, but widened the
power band, and were successful with these engines. That is one thing
that makes a number of electric powered cars seem peppier than the HP of
the motor would seem to indicate- these motors have a very broad range
of rpm over which they develop very good torque.
  #7  
Old August 4th 05, 03:45 PM
Willis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Hey everybody,

Thanks so much for the advice. I talked with a guy at the local speed
shop yesterday, and he said you can roughly estimate about 1.1
horsepower in a moderately built engine. I'm not taking that equation
to heart, because he also let me know that there's another shop about
15 minutes north of my house that has an in-house in-ground dyno.
Prices are between $50 to $100, depending on how many pulls and how
much tuning you request.

I'll probably wait til' next week (payday haha) to take it up there.
I'll let you know just how nasty it is!

Thanks!

Jason

  #8  
Old August 4th 05, 03:59 PM
Willis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Forgot to add - here's the cam specs:

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=33-246-4

  #9  
Old August 4th 05, 05:29 PM
ray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Don Stauffer wrote:
> ray wrote:
>
>> John S. wrote:
>>
>>> Willis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good afternoon all,
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this is an amateur question, but based on the build specs below,
>>>> does anybody have a rough idea (or ballpark guess) of what kind of
>>>> horsepower this engine could generate? I have yet to get my car dyno'd.
>>>> If it's something that can't be figured out just by looking at the info
>>>> above, just call me a rookie and I'll be quiet haha...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is some number > 0 and < 1,000.
>>> The only way to get a meaningful number is to put it on a dyno.
>>>

>>
>> If you can't dyno it, try a dragstrip and a weigh scale. That'll get
>> you close and it's a lot more fun than racing a dyno.

>
>
>
> What the drag strip time actually measures is the integral of horsepower
> over a wide rpm range. Now, in actual fact, that integral is probably
> more important than peak HP, which is probably what the first poster was
> interested in. It is possible, of course, to determine peak HP on a
> dyno, but not to pull it out of drag time.
>
> One can compute delivered (chassis) hp knowing weight and using one of
> those accelerometer devices, which are getting relatively inexpensive
> these days.
>
> Personally, I and a number of others have long felt there should be a
> formal name given to that integral, and say define it between the two
> half-power points. To my knowledge, no standard as such for it exists.
> But it certainly bears an important relationship to performance.
>
> Certainly in F1 many decades ago several teams came out with new
> versions of engines which actually had less peak hp, but widened the
> power band, and were successful with these engines. That is one thing
> that makes a number of electric powered cars seem peppier than the HP of
> the motor would seem to indicate- these motors have a very broad range
> of rpm over which they develop very good torque.


Wow.
C'mon... I said you'd get CLOSE. Of course, the only way to accurately
measure torque and calculate horsepower is on a dyno, but unless your
goal is bragging rights or tuning... the dragstrip is (a) more fun and
(b) the real world... bench racing from a dyno slip is just bench
racing, and isn't the point of building a hot engine to see how fast
it'll go?
Man, some people need less coffee.

You're also lending weight to my theory on my next engine for my dirt
track Camaro - a nice torquey Pontiac 350. We have to run stock carbs
and stock exhausts, so going for 6000+ rpm through stock manifolds is
like hooking up a firehydrant to a garden hose... whereas my old 'Bird
would just kill from idle to 4000rpm.... and then fall on it's face. I
wish I kept it to put the engine in my Camaro...

Ray
  #10  
Old August 4th 05, 06:40 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Okay, you want a guess, I'll bite.
I'll say about 475 peak horsepower, maybe a bit more.

Not all speed equipment works as well together as the manufacturer
suggests it should. That is why my guess is a bit on the conservative
side.


 




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